Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike
- Thread starter indian22
- Start date
Looking good! Rick, you are definitely a guy who can take an idea and run all the way with it. This is like watching a good thriller and wondering whats going to happen next. Another top notch build. Bob
Thanks Jeff, stance is important to me and your Excelsior has it going on in spades!
The bars...were an experiment some time ago. I bought several different length (unbent) bike tubes in 7/8" & 1" tube in various lengths. Some had the expanded & knurled center section & this was formed from one of those tubes on a manual (no hydraulic) mandrel bender. I thought it a good effort and it was the last length of tube in my purchase.
The problem was my math was quite a bit off. They turned out nicely but too short in the straight - controls & grip area. So I've been using them as mock ups during several bike builds, like this one. I was bolting them onto the fork plate a couple of days ago & it hit me that they still had a nice shape but hadn't gotten any longer and since I was just messing around I cut a piece of solid aluminum rod and turned it down to fit inside the 7/8" bars & pinned in place. slipped a 7/8" aluminum tube over the rod & pinned it as well...then mounted the grip and controls...they had grown one grip length, which now seems just about right. This may be the only bar of it's kind Jeff, but kinda doubt it... though I'm taking some credit for it. Not a Harley reproduction for a certainty. lol Rick C.
The bars...were an experiment some time ago. I bought several different length (unbent) bike tubes in 7/8" & 1" tube in various lengths. Some had the expanded & knurled center section & this was formed from one of those tubes on a manual (no hydraulic) mandrel bender. I thought it a good effort and it was the last length of tube in my purchase.
The problem was my math was quite a bit off. They turned out nicely but too short in the straight - controls & grip area. So I've been using them as mock ups during several bike builds, like this one. I was bolting them onto the fork plate a couple of days ago & it hit me that they still had a nice shape but hadn't gotten any longer and since I was just messing around I cut a piece of solid aluminum rod and turned it down to fit inside the 7/8" bars & pinned in place. slipped a 7/8" aluminum tube over the rod & pinned it as well...then mounted the grip and controls...they had grown one grip length, which now seems just about right. This may be the only bar of it's kind Jeff, but kinda doubt it... though I'm taking some credit for it. Not a Harley reproduction for a certainty. lol Rick C.
Jeff I appreciate the comment but confess to wasting several sticks (22' long) of 1" common steel before getting the hang of bending motorcycle bars decades ago & that after twisting ornamental iron for years, so with practice I got a little better.
The bar in question was first bent for a single speed track bike I was building to spec for a competition (velodrome) rider in Houston. Since that's not a sport I track I'm not sure what kind of bars are available, but as I recall most have a lot of curl, similar to that used in road racing bikes...these are much "flatter", yet narrow to cut wind resistance. So the shape I chose to bend was kinda unique to that client...I bent a second set for him which suited him better. Rick C.
The bar in question was first bent for a single speed track bike I was building to spec for a competition (velodrome) rider in Houston. Since that's not a sport I track I'm not sure what kind of bars are available, but as I recall most have a lot of curl, similar to that used in road racing bikes...these are much "flatter", yet narrow to cut wind resistance. So the shape I chose to bend was kinda unique to that client...I bent a second set for him which suited him better. Rick C.
Got to work on the pedal side this morning. As I posted previously the pedal sprocket I'd used on the Simplex build was much to large to clear the engine case (as the photo shows), so I used an electric scooter 13 tooth steel sprocket which I bored out to 3/4" & cut a key way. the photos show two different types of axle collars that could be used to keep the sprocket in place, but I instead ordered a two piece black oxide collar and will cut a key way in it as well. The two piece just clamps better and with it being keyed as well, it should stay put. 13 t to 20 tooth about a 1.5 ratio about like a mountain bike in low and mid cluster over drive. It won't pedal fast but it will pedal easy! Laid a new chain across the sprockets and the line is pretty straight but not perfect.
I mounted the junk sprocket & adapter on the hub & laid a chain down it to the mock reduction drive & it was really in the ballpark also so I'm a happy camper.
I've decided to go with the Vee NOLA tires as used on the Simplex Copper Gator...I'm a believer they are tough. I'll save the brick pattern tires for another time. Rick C.
I mounted the junk sprocket & adapter on the hub & laid a chain down it to the mock reduction drive & it was really in the ballpark also so I'm a happy camper.
I've decided to go with the Vee NOLA tires as used on the Simplex Copper Gator...I'm a believer they are tough. I'll save the brick pattern tires for another time. Rick C.
Attachments
It keeps getting better. Hey Indian22, I personally think you have the right idea on gear reduction. I figured my Tempus might end up being heavier than most. And I'm no lightweight myself. Newton's first law being what it is, I knew if I didn't change something, I'd be struggling to pull through some of the shorter green lights in town before they changed back to red. So when I was building my bike, I altered a pedal sprocket from a little kids 20" Schwinn BMX bike, and mounted it as the front pedal sprocket on Tempus. It probably has 30 or fewer teeth; I'll have to count. But I know the circumference looked right at the time.
When I pull out from a stop sign or light, I have to pedal a little bit more, but it's easier and I can pedal faster. I have a gimpy leg, so this was a must. And my engine has loads of torque so, unless I'm going uphill, I just pedal like crazy for a couple seconds then take off. I'm finding out that it's the easiest way to move this much mass from a standing stop quickly. Looking at it, I don't think the original JC Higgins sprocket would have cleared the crankcase either. So there's that too.
When I pull out from a stop sign or light, I have to pedal a little bit more, but it's easier and I can pedal faster. I have a gimpy leg, so this was a must. And my engine has loads of torque so, unless I'm going uphill, I just pedal like crazy for a couple seconds then take off. I'm finding out that it's the easiest way to move this much mass from a standing stop quickly. Looking at it, I don't think the original JC Higgins sprocket would have cleared the crankcase either. So there's that too.
Thanks guys for your comments and interest in the HD "Peashooter" build. Allen the diameter of that 13 T is about the same as an old "real" US silver dollar, really tiny & if it works like I think it should I'll be mounting the same size to the Simplex Copper Gator. Also Velodrome I'll post photos of the "reduction drive" as I modify two go cart sprockets as the basis for the offset chain carrier on the co axle.
I mentioned changing tire choices earlier & when I re-read my post it seemed my only reason for doing so was tire quality & while that is part of the reason it's not fully accurate. The photos show brick pattern tires of which I have two new sets each made by different companies and both 26" x 2.35" mounted on 2.35" wheels & they fit but by the narrowest of margins & I don't really want the alignment issues which would be an ongoing headache. I selected Pat's narrow frame intentionally for it's petite profile & knew wide tires wouldn't fit. A 2.35" tire isn't what I'd call wide, but on wider rims they flatten out & I didn't really take this increased wheel width into consideration; not thinking they would bulge this much...but they did. Not only do they not fit well in the lower rear triangle, they also seem too large from by viewpoint. I really like the early moto bicycle look in profile so I ordered two 2.125" NOLA Vee tires which will also flatten out on the wide rims and, I hope, visually enhance my bike & be much tougher.
Tire width not a problem on the Simplex forks, but going same size. The cool cast rockers on the forks are designed for 1/2" axle, but the through hole is slightly larger 9/16" or so. The original nuts had a stepped flange that took up the slack & also prevented the wheel axle from detaching from the rocker if the nut loosed up...a safety feature of it's day. I could have machined a pair but had two flanged, steel bushings 9/16" OD x 3/8" ID that I cut to length & installed on the 3/8" axle after the axle was placed in the fork rockers. The bushing flange protects the rocker when the nut is tightened, acting as a washer normally would. Small but critical details to address when using vintage or altered parts in a build. This one was a huge safety concern as well as obtaining proper function & placement of the axle.
The forks will also have to have brackets to mount the adjuster and locate/ operate the Sturmey drum stabilizer arm as well & several other key features like the rear axle adjusters & chain tensioners/idler sprocket which many despise but I greatly favor when custom designed and installed properly.
Lot of work left to do my saddle hasn't arrived, but I had a nice small bobber style saddle on the shelf and I'm going to mount it for now using the same bolt pattern as my other Rich Phillips seats so I can easily mount it when it arrives. Just need to get the feel of the proper rider height to see if bars and pedals all function from a given position...and examine the bikes stance with saddle & bars in place.
Rain rolling in so I got to get a few things done outside before it hits.
Rick C.
I mentioned changing tire choices earlier & when I re-read my post it seemed my only reason for doing so was tire quality & while that is part of the reason it's not fully accurate. The photos show brick pattern tires of which I have two new sets each made by different companies and both 26" x 2.35" mounted on 2.35" wheels & they fit but by the narrowest of margins & I don't really want the alignment issues which would be an ongoing headache. I selected Pat's narrow frame intentionally for it's petite profile & knew wide tires wouldn't fit. A 2.35" tire isn't what I'd call wide, but on wider rims they flatten out & I didn't really take this increased wheel width into consideration; not thinking they would bulge this much...but they did. Not only do they not fit well in the lower rear triangle, they also seem too large from by viewpoint. I really like the early moto bicycle look in profile so I ordered two 2.125" NOLA Vee tires which will also flatten out on the wide rims and, I hope, visually enhance my bike & be much tougher.
Tire width not a problem on the Simplex forks, but going same size. The cool cast rockers on the forks are designed for 1/2" axle, but the through hole is slightly larger 9/16" or so. The original nuts had a stepped flange that took up the slack & also prevented the wheel axle from detaching from the rocker if the nut loosed up...a safety feature of it's day. I could have machined a pair but had two flanged, steel bushings 9/16" OD x 3/8" ID that I cut to length & installed on the 3/8" axle after the axle was placed in the fork rockers. The bushing flange protects the rocker when the nut is tightened, acting as a washer normally would. Small but critical details to address when using vintage or altered parts in a build. This one was a huge safety concern as well as obtaining proper function & placement of the axle.
The forks will also have to have brackets to mount the adjuster and locate/ operate the Sturmey drum stabilizer arm as well & several other key features like the rear axle adjusters & chain tensioners/idler sprocket which many despise but I greatly favor when custom designed and installed properly.
Lot of work left to do my saddle hasn't arrived, but I had a nice small bobber style saddle on the shelf and I'm going to mount it for now using the same bolt pattern as my other Rich Phillips seats so I can easily mount it when it arrives. Just need to get the feel of the proper rider height to see if bars and pedals all function from a given position...and examine the bikes stance with saddle & bars in place.
Rain rolling in so I got to get a few things done outside before it hits.
Rick C.
Decided to take a few days off and let some parts arrive. I really want to finish the pedal drive side and get the NOLA Vee tires on so I can ride it a few times to see how it feels just as a pedal bike. I'll leave the engine in place as well to check out the balance & to pre-adjust the forks. I normally go through this routine on a build - if things won't work as a pedal bike it will only get worse under engine power and higher speeds. I do have some steep hills where gravity will allow me to hit 35 mph plus so after running the bike through the pedal bike routine I'm usually pretty confident that all parts are functioning properly or not, as the case might be. In the meantime just working on the bits and pieces.
Rick C.
Rick C.
Hey Rick wanted to share this picture with you, this person was in the build off with me but out of Japan. Did a real nice job on this bike, he made the frame and a bunch of others parts on this bike. Not sure if you are on Instagram but this person is if you want the link.
Attachments
Thanks for the photo Jeff. It's good to see that board track builds are popular in many other countries. He built this one for the highways with motorcycle wheels and tires and didn't include a pedal side drive. I'd think he also had to move his motor drive axle behind the seat stay to gain enough room for the engine. I don't see an electric starter either, but might be camera angle doesn't pick it up. Nice looking build & I'd say it's a strong design, but the forks are a big negative to me, probably rides nice though.
I'm not on any social media.
Got the engine lined up with the drive sprockets just waiting for the tires to finish my drive line mock up on both sides of the bike. then a little pedal time testing. Carb installed and really fills in that big space between the jug and the seat tube. When I install the "chuckle head" rocker covers, exhaust & the fuel tank the frame will be filled. I also cleaned the paint off the opposite side cover & installed. Mainly busy work. Rick C.
I'm not on any social media.
Got the engine lined up with the drive sprockets just waiting for the tires to finish my drive line mock up on both sides of the bike. then a little pedal time testing. Carb installed and really fills in that big space between the jug and the seat tube. When I install the "chuckle head" rocker covers, exhaust & the fuel tank the frame will be filled. I also cleaned the paint off the opposite side cover & installed. Mainly busy work. Rick C.
Thanks Ludwig for the name & I also hope he will form a union with us. He is obviously a builder of great merit & takes his builds seriously. I didn't mention a few aspects about his bike that are notable and that I like. Coil springs, well mounted under the boardie saddle, 3 dimensional, sculpted gussets under the lower straddle tube & the small, thin, LED head lamp that sets tucked elegantly in with the forks. Also a well designed oil tank box for his electrical components.
Actually the forks are really growing on me; they remind me of bikes built in the 50's & earlier. Of course the stance is really low and long which presents well. I don't imagine he'd clear many of our speed bumps, but it looks awesome!
Welcome Mr. Nakazawa & nice work. Rick C.
Actually the forks are really growing on me; they remind me of bikes built in the 50's & earlier. Of course the stance is really low and long which presents well. I don't imagine he'd clear many of our speed bumps, but it looks awesome!
Welcome Mr. Nakazawa & nice work. Rick C.
I agree with you about the forks Rick. The first thing I check on a bike is the forks. A beautiful period build with modern or non correct forks for the bike take away from all the effort that the builder put into the bike in my opinion.
It is of course the builders right to have what they want on the bike but it still takes away from all the work put into the build.
The Chuckle Head is coming along beautifully.
Steve.
It is of course the builders right to have what they want on the bike but it still takes away from all the work put into the build.
The Chuckle Head is coming along beautifully.
Steve.
Thanks Steve hope you're feeling better. Just got in & thought I'd check the forum before supper. I did work on the bike some this afternoon as the NOLA Vee tires came in. 2.125" of hateful attitude when mounting on 2.35" wide rims, but they are on and look good. They are the largest combination that will fit the small Sportsman frame & really fill up the 110 mm drops. I used the Nola Vee tires on the Simplex a 2.5" up front & a 3" on the back and both mounted easily on 2.125" x 26" wheels, so I'd have to say the difference was in the larger rims which are double wall aluminum. Really difficult mount...I came close to giving up. Hope I never have a flat even in the shop and it's the last time I use the wider rims from now on it's 2.125" or nothing.
I also got the pedal side drive assembled & will fit the chain on that side tomorrow. hook up the coaster brake and see how she pedals and rides. I'll take some photos tomorrow. I had a stream of people stopping by the shop to view my progress which always happens when the builds go up on wheels. Hard to get much done but also kinda fun to see their interest. Rick C.
I also got the pedal side drive assembled & will fit the chain on that side tomorrow. hook up the coaster brake and see how she pedals and rides. I'll take some photos tomorrow. I had a stream of people stopping by the shop to view my progress which always happens when the builds go up on wheels. Hard to get much done but also kinda fun to see their interest. Rick C.