Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[indian22]

Yes Pat but we solved two things with one order of your " oil tank" tool box, which was what I wanted to begin with and now an oil bung is no longer required. The controller that will fit the oil tank tool box was shipped with the 3kw motor but wasn't marked and had no specs shipped with it. I just laid it aside and ordered the big controller rather than dig for more information...now I find it's a multi voltage (36v. thru 72v.) and 60 amp continuous 100 max amps which should serve my purposes well. I have these senior moments frequently it seems. yet still make a little progress along the way. The tool box solves fabricating an enclosure for an enclosure and is of course precisely proportioned for the frame. I feel I've accomplished a lot for not much money and it's a perfect solution that enhances the bike. In addition the tool box will assist in concealed routing of plugs and wiring used along with the magneto housing and battery tank enclosure.

Other than the truss fork everything frame related is now Sportsman Flyer and that incudes all the sheet metal as well. I've always said Pat's bikes suit me & I'd be proud to own and ride any of them!

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I'm back to wax on wax off again & practice has really improved my assembly & break down times. My case alterations this morning will speed things up some more. With two motors, two batteries & two controllers Plug and play needs to be exactly same, same & bolt up, hardware, connectors and wiring harness matching length etc. Lego concept with all interconnected for quick parts service or entire power assembly trade out. The case modifications that I made today insure that chain lines can be reset with little fuss should the case ever have to come off. That's highly unlikely, but could be necessary if the bike was involved in an hard fall or collision. Every part that's removable can be removed with the crank case and cylinders attached to the frame and even the cylinders can be removed.

It's really startling to see the frame sitting empty once more, but I'll leave it this way for a week or two while I tinker and wait for more parts to arrive.

Rick C.

Dang that's a poor photo, but does reveal a bunch of empty that the twin really fills up.
.

 

[indian22]

With the case modifications (simple & looks the same) I now have a simple case setup for three axis motor adjustment.

The crank case housing looks so tiny sitting in the loop with most of the major components removed.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Though I'm a good ways off from finishing the E-twin I keep thinking of what I really want to build next. I've a couple of obvious things unfinished most notably the side car project for the Simplex. While I'm safely sequestered in place I've been sorting through bike stuff & one item seems always in the way. It's that little 98cc Lifan 4 stroke that I put a CVT on and broke in for a few hours on the test bench a couple of years back. Since it's a pull start I decided not to use it, bad shoulder, and here it sits. Today I stopped to consider taking it to one of my big storage sheds & instead I'll be taking the CVT off and using it.

I want to build another E-case twin in the flat head style (L head) and incorporate the CVT transmission with a 3kw motor. Sounds a plausible union twixt the two. I really don't want to build yet another bike for it just now so I'll design it as a simple swap in for the bike I'm currently at work on now that I'm comfortable with the dimensions best suited to this custom frame. I have the motor and the 72 v. battery pack is being assembled. I've an extra fake carb, ready to go as well and a test loop stand constructed and now empty.

I can't think of any reason the concept won't work and it shouldn't take long to machine the parts to join E-motor to CVT for trial testing of just the working components before starting fabrication of the fake V-twin case .

Give me your thoughts on this.

Rick C.

 

[fasteddy]

I have a list of bikes I'd like to build also. The list will long outlive me unfortunately. The Harley-Davidson is looking so incredibly real it defies imagination.

Steve.

 

[Tony01]

What problem with the electric motor are you trying to solve by going with a cvt?

 

[indian22]

No problems just utilizing the electrics gobs of torque to seamlessly drive ratios from bottom to top and to gain expanded rpm range without resorting to higher battery voltages to gain pure motor speed as one has to do with these direct drive motors. Using a common Comet style CTV rather than a manual shifter kit to manage the gearing changes.

Shimano has an e-bike, rear hub CVT that is driven by mid motor electrics through the pedal side drive line as does Evelo and both are belt driven. Their setups are quite expensive. I'm thinking CVT to chain at the moment driving from the opposite side as being cost effective and can drive full size half inch pitch chains & sprockets mounted to commonly available hubs. No sense in breaking the bank on a prototype & I have all the major components already to setup a load test on the bench.

Big Bertha (my load test setup) would have to be assembled, but anything that can drive her can pull a 500 lb. load up a 15% grade and gain speed! …..(not actually documented through empirical testing however) I could be exaggerating her resistance a bit.

Rick C.

 

[Tony01]

It’s a different kind of cvt though (nuvinci). A traction drive. Uses balls with variable tilt axles and a fluid between balls, drive and output discs that becomes a solid momentarily under high pressure which gives the “traction”.

The tav2 will eat 1kw easily.

If you just want higher rpm you can look into controllers with field weakening. Above a certain speed, you get more rpms at the expense of torque. The old way of going fast was high volts. Modern tech has the voltage going down and higher amps used, and advanced functions like FW. I can’t explain it in one post, but in a nutshell it reduces the back emf induced by high phase currents to allow the motor to spin faster.

Avoiding the cvt by itself will net a huge gain. But also running a newer tech controller will have your bike running far more efficiently even without FW than a cheap old style controller.

 

[indian22]

Interesting Tony, thanks. I'm aware of how the different hub CVT's function. I expected the Comet to exert some power losses as well, but a loss through the Comet transmission of 1.33 hp is significant I'll agree. CVT losses occur when used with four strokes as well. Power train losses also occur when using simple, single speed jack shaft reduction gear setups. The lower the engines power the higher the percentage of loss to the rear wheel.

I'd be interested in high tech if the ratio of pricing justifies the difference in all around performance. Actually fast speed is the least important metric of any bike I build, though I like power on tap. The CVT engagement is really a bigger question that power loss & I have my doubts that it will be smooth enough to satisfy me...same thing with CVT on 4 strokes.

Rick C.

 

[MotoMagz]

I believe this is the hub? http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=1833

 

[indian22]

I believe this is the hub? http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=1833

Yes Mags that's one of them that Tony mentioned and the hubs make a nice package & I would think transmission losses would be much lower and the finished drive train much smoother, which would greatly enhance the quiet electrics, than the Comet CVT.

Tony's observations are based using not only a lot of up to date e-bike insight but a great deal of experience with e-bikes &internal combustion engine power & in particular shifter bikes that were a lot more than "kits" so his insights are always valued by me.

Since I have the parts and the time I'll investigate the Comet CVT/brushless direct combination. Though I have reservations about the utility of this combination.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I value a good bike stand and I've used the same stand on my last eight builds and I see no reason not to use the same drive off style stand on the e-twin. I'm not a fan of leaners on my bikes. Though not vintage correct these are what I prefer.

This is a heavy duty, three and a half pound, piece of 1/8" thick steel plate that works. It features double heavy duty springs that serve two purposes. The first is to hold the spring in the collapsed position while the bike is ridden (no rattles) & secondly to prevent the stand from accidentally folding while the bike is on stand. Though it's an excellent stand; it's not perfect and I alter each slightly to fit my purpose, but it's by far the best commercial stand out there...really rugged.

These are made in Taiwan, relatively hard for me to find, and at times have been referred to as the "crow" stand & sometimes shipped from New Mexico. This is my last one, so if any are available let me know.

I value my bikes & really dislike finding any bike lying on it's side so a great stand, well installed, is very important to me.

I'll show the changes as they are completed.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I found the "crow" double leg stands again and have a couple on order.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Not the ones Pat uses but I can see why you like them Rick.
Tom

 

[indian22]

I'm certain other drive off stands are good, but I'm a believer in these due to experience. The adjustable height bolts are the only aluminum used. That may be for corrosion, but stainless is a better option for these, easy fix if one wants adjustment. On my heavier bikes I weld steel tube with large steel footpads and permanently set the stands height. The duck feet pads prevent the legs from digging in to soft terrain & tipping the bike.

Fixed leg and pad alteration photo.

Rick C.

.

 

[Bob53]

Rick, where can these be obtained? They look to be a lot better quality than most on the market. Thanks, Bob

 

[indian22]

I'll let you know Bob when I have one in hand as it appears these have single springs, but the photos shown are really poor quality. even for snap shots.

Several deliveries are scheduled for today (not the bike stands however) and if they are delivered today it's really fast service by USPS. Battery pack came in yesterday 48v. and that was UPS and also quickly delivered. I've got to think a lot of folks are working right on through this thing and I pray that's not a problem. I however am sequestered and happy as a lark about it...though it's not what I'd prefer.

Rick C.

 

[sportscarpat]

I have a list of bikes I'd like to build also. The list will long outlive me unfortunately. The Harley-Davidson is looking so incredibly real it defies imagination.

Steve.

Just catching up on this thread. My list will also out live me! In the mean time keep building and ride the heck out of the ones that run!
On another note I have a good friend who is 89 years young. He is still building and buying bikes. He just doesn't have a concept of time and is happy as can be.

 

[indian22]

Pat Old guys may be "non-essential" but can still get 'er done! (given time)

Battery space for the 48v. with the 14s - 8p in your battery tank isn't a problem, but going any wider than 8p won't work with out folding the pack layout. Fortunately the 72 v. pack is also 8 parallel and will just squeeze in lengthwise.

Charging plug will be under the fuel filler cap which has a seal ring and the plug inside will have a cover cap installed. No way for moisture to enter the plug. I like the look of a filler bung on the Sportsman battery tank and think it a proper & handy location for re-charging the battery.

I propose to install the glass sediment bowl to the bottom of the thick stainless battery baseplate too. The controller will of course go into the Sportsman oil tank tool box. Once the magneto housing is in place I should have adequate space to store/conceal most of the electrical wiring as well. The magneto drive side case conceals the large motor cable as it's routed towards the rear of the bike & the rear cylinders exhaust also helps conceal this cable. I'd prefer not to see any wiring, but at least keep most out of sight. The same goes for operating control cables, eventually going to disc front and rear so cables are necessary.

Rick C.

 

[sportscarpat]

I have had a couple batteries come through with very thick shrink wrap. I bought thinner material and the difference was enough to allow a perfect fit.