Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[PeteMcP]

You just described my life's sleeping habits to a tee, Steve. I've managed to get by on 3-4 hours sleep a night and long since got used to my brain being over-active. Always baffled me how wife Jen used to drop off to sleep ten minutes after her head touched the pillow. Just never been something that's bothered me. Some of my best ideas take shape in the wee small hours...

 

[indian22]

Every time I look at the bike it's hard to believe it's not going to start up and flames won't shoot out the exhaust. Being a perfectionist isn't a bad thing but it sure does affect a persons sleep if your affected. Trying to go to sleep while thinking about how you should do what you just did a little better and then waking up in the middle of the night with the answer is not always a lot of fun.

Steve.

Thanks Steve since the bike lives with me and it's placed this way and that I notice things that shouldn't be or should and aren't. This has gone on for many weeks now, change and wait, "wax on, wax off" repetition and improvement.

The addition of aluminum side cover plates, helped add motor contrast, but still not quite right. Pete asked about the tank and stainless aging and it's got me thinking a 100% murdered out look isn't quite what I want, black needs some help which in this day of bling usually ends up as chrome. I'm pretty resistant to the stuff & little goes a long way; along with high polish aluminum or stainless. I've used copper plate and various decals to tanks in the past and I like the look but been there done that so I'm considering more artistic options to add contrast to the tank, while still using a mostly black finish. This may be time consuming.

Staying at home so much grows that to do list

Rick C.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Listened to Car Talk Radio and heard that there is spray can of imitation dust/dirt to put on your 4X4 vehicle so that you can not have people scold you for not using it off road or something. Board track was real planks of fairly clean wood, so maybe this stuff is not for the bike?

 

[indian22]

Thanks for the tip MT & you're probably right about the look I'm searching for, but I'm a fan of off road vehicles and have always thought they look really out of place all shiny in the bumper to bumper urban environment...wanna' be's?

I'm thinking low key the Harley I.D. with this bike, not all board track competitor's were factory sponsored, though they used the motors and parts from the popular makes as the basis for their race bikes. The tank was used as billboard signage for fans to identify with and follow.

I still want the tank in black, but no decals factory or otherwise. I'm thinking of using some of my old art skills to design & hand engrave, then etch the large stainless side panels of the "fuel tank", and pin stripe it as well. Pete the etch process can serve in aging stainless and other metals, but I'd say there are some inherent risks involved using chemicals.

The engraved areas would not be painted just degrees of shading. It would give the tank and bike some much needed contrast. I've done firearms and knives in the past, but never a cycle or bike, though I've seen some fantastic tattoo style engraving done on choppers. I'm thinking way more subdued for this tank. I'll keep the design "logo" pretty basic, no posing babes or other wild critter's. Could be a fun project for an ol' guy in isolation.

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Rick,
Latest pics with motor/tank in place make for a fantastic looking machine.
I know Ferric Chloride is the chemical used to photo-etch the brass and nickel silver sheets from which my model train kits were produced. Is this what you'd use for etching stainless steel?
Posted a comment to this forum a couple of days back re your V-twin's exhaust but somehow it failed to appear. Said I thought the motor's exhaust stubs looked perfect just the way they are rather than being cut down. Rather than cut down the existing pipes, make new, shorter ones. Then you get to compare and decide.

 

[indian22]

Thanks Pete and yes ferric chloride is great for stainless as well. I've found that using a combination of etching processes yield interesting results and on complex layouts can compliment hand engraving also. Electro etching with salt water or acidic based electrolytes have a place in the tool kit too. For a straight forward logo/script with background not much design required just good metal prep & proper masking. Generated heat in electro etch process needs to be held to a minimum as masking material can fail with too much heat.

I'll not chop anything at this point Pete & you're right replace and compare is a better way to decide the final exhausts length and shape. I'll also be raising the motor a small amount to see what that looks like, with a little move to the rear. I'm thinking there's too much space between the frame and top of the motor & I wouldn't mind seeing some of the loop frame under the engine either. The frame itself is only about 4" off the ground so no matter how one views it, all they see is a long, low profile.

I've got plenty of chain clearance on the motor drive side, but limited room for a pedal sprocket of maybe 4" diameter to clear the crankcase, though much pedaling isn't quite what this build is about. Seeing what I now know would be quite helpful for building a second bike. Pat's custom frame setup is spot on, no changes there, but I'd make some small dimensional changes in the motor, crank case, housing. I'd make it 4" in basic width rather than 5". This would greatly enhance final setup with the F-head style motor especially, but would help with a flathead style also. Leave everything at 100% scale, my 5" crankcase width is actually wider than scale by about an inch.

One off builds are like that for me, but really as these things go it's been a rather tame exercise with no real drama. Having a frame that was dead on perfect was an enormous time saver and worth far more than any cost involved. I'm slowly making progress and still having fun!

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Magneto housing update. The addition of a magneto drive behind the rear cylinder is enhanced by the extra room afforded by raising the motor almost two inches & adjusting the offset of the motor 1" to the right and 1" forward, much like the setup of the original Harleys, but not so high as to have to notch the tank for intake rocker clearance. The forward spark plug clears the right side of the frame down tube.This motor position change allows adequate room for a close to scale magneto and allows a small amount of additional space for a little larger pedal sprocket. The frame will be completely filled vertically with motor and the mag housing filling the horizontal space behind the engine housing.

A longer pedal axle with short, bent pedals clears exhaust pipe and engine side plates.

Of course the gains come with a price in the form of changing the power side secondary chain line significantly and I'll probably have to make some reduction drive design changes. Thanks to the 135mm rear frame width I have some room, but using the 3" wide tire is limiting as well. I'm hoping that 1/2" motor offset is all that's required rather than a full inch. That wouldn't pose as big a problem. Going to 2.5" width tires is my least favorite solution and I'm willing to do a substantial amount of work to avoid a rear tire size change!

Rick C.

 

[MotoMagz]

So kool ! Details are are all there looks great!

 

[indian22]

Thanks Mags. Forecast is good for working outdoors this week & hope to get a few things accomplished on the E-twin.

I hit some shiny aluminum parts with electrolysis last week to age/change the finish. Gas cap was polished like a mirror and the photo shows a dramatic change to the finish, no paint or blacking done. though that's a possibility as the aluminum on the mag drive case was also put through the same process and then hit with a light coat of aluminum black (Birchwood Casey product) & buffed a bit.

I ran some tests with bright stainless sheet metal & wasn't too impressed with the etch quality of the electrolysis & salt water.

Needed parts are slow in coming. Most everything here is closed down for the duration. Nine inch pedal shaft would be nice to have at the moment.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I fabricated a top cylinder motor mount yesterday & that will help get the motor close to it's final position for setting the chain line and pedal clearances. I've ordered a 28 tooth pedal sprocket (14 t on the rear) 2:1 ratio & coupled with the 28" height of the three inch tire, should make the bike demonstratively pedal assisted. Nine inch plus square taper axle & my custom bent & shortened (125mm length) pedal levers should clear the side motor covers on the pedal drive side. while helping to avoid accidental ground strikes with the levers during leans into corners. I'll use Schwinn "bow tie" repro pedals that I favor.

Keep in mind that when I change to the sealed bearing billet aluminum hubs (front and rear discs)that the spokes will be stainless) which will brighten the wheels somewhat. The hubs and sprocket will be "aged" to suit the rest of the bike too. Shiny factory painted/powder coated parts will also be dulled to reflect age.

Photos to follow.

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Rick,
Wondering if you've considered using blackened stainless spokes on the E-twin's wheels? I've just built a replacement front wheel for Blue Bamboo using a black hoop laced with blackened s/s spokes with bright stainless nipples and it's a nice 'period' look. Just wish my long overdue wheel trueing jig would hurry up and get here so I can press on with mounting the tyre and swapping out the bike's front wheel.

 

[indian22]

Rick,
Wondering if you've considered using blackened stainless spokes on the E-twin's wheels? I've just built a replacement front wheel for Blue Bamboo using a black hoop laced with blackened s/s spokes with bright stainless nipples and it's a nice 'period' look. Just wish my long overdue wheel trueing jig would hurry up and get here so I can press on with mounting the tyre and swapping out the bike's front wheel.

Yes Pete I've used both in the past and like the look of each. I look at the wheels now mounted and like how the all black wheels look with the unpainted frame, but when everything goes black on frame and tank, I'm thinking a little satin on the spokes will lend some nice contrast. When I get the frame and tank painted I'll use a set of my black rims and stainless spokes to see what difference there is, before I pop for the new parts.

The short, wide cranks I mentioned are 110mm length not 125mm as I earlier stated. Also look at the difference electrolysis made to the high polish stainless "intake manifold", shown next to a similar polished part. My camera work doesn't do justice to the surface change.

I finally got a few items yesterday but not the ones that really need two weeks ago. I feel your pain Pete.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Snagged a 48v. lithium pack from the guy that builds my batteries. 20 amp hr. that's perfect for testing my 2kw motor. Guy it was intended for lost job and couldn't pay. I bought it for the balance due plus shipping; less than half price. So now I don't have to borrow a battery from my other bikes & it will make a nice long distance ride, insurance battery for my hybrid. Deals pop up in a bad economy.

In addition the BMS on the battery is a 60 amp so the 48v. with the small controller mounted should enable short sprints at almost 4 hp or about 40 percent of what the 72v. motor, enabled to up to 100 amps, will produce.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Top motor mounts in place along with a front mount and if you reference my older photos the motor now really fills up the frame, plus the magneto housing when added everything squeezed into place it appears. I'll also add the glass sediment bowl later on. I really wasted a nice day for building with internet search activities and phone calls but I did score the battery and took care of some business. So I'll say it turned out alright.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

That you have trumped Pat's E-build for realism would be a understatement Rick. Your tenacity rivals Pete McP for detail. You guys amaze me, and I count myself lucky to enter into your spheres. All I ever coveted was owning a Whizzer, and then this world opened up.
Back 20 years ago, I lived in Cortland, Illinois, just East of Dekalb, wherein was a guy importing Whizzers from China. He was a retired very well, Tool and Die Maker from https://www.idealindustries.com/
Post Ideal he catered to the college kids at NIU in the same town. I drove by his back street shop many time without stopping. The guy in Woodstock, ILL having passed I just wonder.
I am long gone from that local.
Tom

 

[PeteMcP]

Battery deal was a nice, timely score Rick. You're correct about there being winners and losers during these weird times. Having to let go some of one's treasured possessions in order to keep things afloat will be the order of the day for many I guess.
Loving the look of the left side motor case on the e-twin. And the addition of the top motor mount really adds a great deal to the overall appearance too. Waiting to see how the pedals look once fitted.

 

[indian22]

Thanks Pete. Yes I don't like the immediate prospects for many young folks in this area that have had high paying work in the oil industry and are loaded with debt extended in large part to purchase toys they really wanted, but didn't need and in the real world couldn't actually afford without a continued steady cash flow. Pay check to pay check living. Many will lose most if not all they've been working so hard for. This world teaches common sense the hard way to some, but some will never get it & bail outs from family and government add to irresponsible economic lifestyles. I'm for helping those in need get back on there feet, but not as a long term solution. Full employment for the able is the best metric I know for gauging the economic health of a society.

I too wonder about the pedal clearance on the pedal chain side of the bike, since I'm not 100% certain how much motor off set will be required to line up the secondary drive chain. I've no pedal clearance issues on the left side, but appearance of too much stick out is an issue, though I can rightly add or subtract axle material to mount the square taper levers. In the past I've run one straight lever and one crooked & never received a comment as to appearance, but not my best option for sure. I used approximately the same length crooked levers on my Simplex and they turned out well, it's ground clearance is absolute minimum, lower than the twin by a couple of inches.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

That you have trumped Pat's E-build for realism would be a understatement Rick. Your tenacity rivals Pete McP for detail. You guys amaze me, and I count myself lucky to enter into your spheres. All I ever coveted was owning a Whizzer, and then this world opened up.
Back 20 years ago, I lived in Cortland, Illinois, just East of Dekalb, wherein was a guy importing Whizzers from China. He was a retired very well, Tool and Die Maker from https://www.idealindustries.com/
Post Ideal he catered to the college kids at NIU in the same town. I drove by his back street shop many time without stopping. The guy in Woodstock, ILL having passed I just wonder.
I am long gone from that local.
Tom

Thanks Tom I'm humbled. I've mentioned in the past that I'm pretty certain I've never come up with an original idea (that worked) on any bike build of any type. The E-twin concept actually came 100% from Pat's work now three years in the past, he was the innovator & is my collaborator on the V-twin build with many suggestions and encouragement along the way & several pages of private messages used to help this project along. Very unselfish in every aspect. Added to this is my substantial use of major components from Sportsman Flyer including the custom deep loop frame, without these I would be months behind on my current builds progress. What I'm doing with the motor case doesn't make sense outside of a one off custom. Though certainly my efforts can be reverse engineered, commercial applications I'd think wouldn't justify the efforts, but it could be done.

Back street shops fill my memories Tom & are a major part of my involvement in cycles through all these years. I build on the work of others past and present and you tool and die guys are several notches up on the metal working food chain.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Battery deal was a nice, timely score Rick. You're correct about there being winners and losers during these weird times. Having to let go some of one's treasured possessions in order to keep things afloat will be the order of the day for many I guess.
Loving the look of the left side motor case on the e-twin. And the addition of the top motor mount really adds a great deal to the overall appearance too. Waiting to see how the pedals look once fitted.

Pete I'd been neglecting the left side details, but I'm turning some attention to it as things progress. I plan to locate the glass sediment bowl/copper lines & the copper oil line and brass fittings on the motor drive side and I think that will lend some interest as well. The magneto case will be best viewed from the left too. The right side has a lot going on already so I'll attempt to balance things out a bit. Most of the originals had the carb mounted reverse of my setup with the carb, but not all.

I want the magneto "box" to be as large as possible and still retain an authentic look. The housing will route some wires and house a few plugs and help conceal these non original items, while keeping them readily accessible & with enough extra length to work with. I've plenty of extra room in the "fuel tank" battery box to help with some of this as well.
I may add an additional oil bung filler to the tank, to make oil feed from the tank appear plausible. Both these bungs will have to be on the same side of the tank or removal of tank and installation would be impossible. A brass sight glass to check oil flow from the tank would be a nice touch on the engine case too.

How much realism is necessary to sell this concept and still have an electric bike that functions in everyday riding? I've no real idea of where to stop & so I just will at a certain point.

Rick C.

 

[sportscarpat]

Pretty easy to make a removable bung.