"kindalikeawhizzer"

[silverbear]

Hey Mike! Yes, it has been a long time, for sure.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "new style quick release stones", but would like o know. You're not talking about the cutting discs are you... reinforced cut-off wheels for Dremel? I can see how just making a flat would allow the set screw to spin. Drilling a dimple for the set screw to fit into would be better, but best would be a key way with a lot more surface to lock things into place. Thanks for the tip!

How have you been? Very good to see your post, my friend...
SB

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Intrepid & Curt,
Thanks for giving it a "creative stare". Here's yet another variation. I have the engine pretty well centered in the frame opening and as low as I can get the base of the engine. With it mounted off center to the engine mountings, but centered up as far as pull start and clutch width it allows for the carburetor to hang below the front down tube. What do you think? Or was it better before?
SB

I will freely admit I'm not so keen on backward leaning engines, but that last fitting variation does seem to fit in the frame better and that nice parallel alignment with the seat tube is a plus.

There were a number of backward leaner engine fitments in early motorcycles so your bike would be in good company SB.

With cutting a keyway with a grinder I've heard of this been done before by home builders and it seems to work really well. A good eye and a steady hand would be needed though.

 

[curtisfox]

Post 134 picture 2 is what i like if you could just tip it up strieghter a bit. Seems to be a lot of room for the spark plug,and if you turn the clutch around both sprokets would be in further.

Just my opinion any others out there?

But like they say it your build do what you like.............Curt

 

[silverbear]

See what you think of this, then. The reason I can't reverse the clutch is that the two set screws are inside the housing and the only way the housing can come off to access those screws is with the C clip you see in the close up photo of the clutch. With the clip removed the bell housing including the sprocket can slide out and give access. Reverse the clutch and there is no place for the bell to go as it will run into the engine. So that's how come.

So what do you think of this position? It may seem like I'm overly worrying this, but whatever position one chooses has critical implications for other things, such as the air filter, access to the spark plug, room for the jack shaft to be made in such a way that it has adjustment to keep things right with the chain slack and the belt tension. All things to think about. What I do like is that the engine is as low as I can get it which will help with giving the bike balance. I remain open to suggestions... opinions. It really does help me to think this through.
SB

 

[curtisfox]

I understand the clutch now.
That looks good, you will have to have a gard on the chain ..Thats right were your leg will be...........Curt

 

[silverbear]

So in the last mock-up we had the engine following the front down tube closely. A preference has been stated earlier for a more upright position. Below are progressive moves to a more upright position. Does one of these look right to you? Which one?
SB

 

[msrfan]

See what you think of this, then. The reason I can't reverse the clutch is that the two set screws are inside the housing and the only way the housing can come off to access those screws is with the C clip you see in the close up photo of the clutch. With the clip removed the bell housing including the sprocket can slide out and give access. Reverse the clutch and there is no place for the bell to go as it will run into the engine. So that's how come.

So what do you think of this position? It may seem like I'm overly worrying this, but whatever position one chooses has critical implications for other things, such as the air filter, access to the spark plug, room for the jack shaft to be made in such a way that it has adjustment to keep things right with the chain slack and the belt tension. All things to think about. What I do like is that the engine is as low as I can get it which will help with giving the bike balance. I remain open to suggestions... opinions. It really does help me to think this through.
SB

Looks real good SB. I assume some of the large amount of room behind the engine will be taken up by the jack shaft? I suppose the exhaust tubing could also be looped through to the other side for a right side high pipe pointing straight back. Kindalikemyyellow bike, or curved down and back kindalikeawhizzer. Just a thought. You're making good progress.

 

[MotorbikeMike]

Hi SB, much water under the bridge in the last 3 years or so. The Company continues to improve and grow, with the biggest changes being in some parts made differently, assembly easier, and more precise by eliminating the 4 bends on the bearing carriers, replacing them with factory spec extrusions.

I now work full-time for the State, which is a mixed blessing, great to have steady pay, but the stress of day to day involvement in an environment where I, for the most part, am diametrically opposed to almost everything they believe and do, is very tough.

My own builds have been on the back burner for at least that long, I have a new goal for my original Drop loop Racer, a 9 cu in upright Briggs, which is 3.5 hp, 147.00 cc. It will sport a "Pacesetter" drive, another carb, whether a vintage ml2b Tillotson, with adjustable main jet, or possibly a slide carb from Texas Whizzer. Finish will be something I have never done before, rattle-can intended to be a "Barn Bike" look, in a pale blue, reminiscent of the "Mighty Pope" motorcycles of the day. I have a vintage motorcycle saddle I bought at an Antique Motor Cycle of America meet, and want to use Motorcycle wheels to get the vastly improved tires, tubes and brakes. I'm glad you reminded me of the AMF Atom wheels, I have 2 sets, and laced into small motorcycle wheel, should work great!

Yes the re-enforced Dremel wheels I got mine from Lowes, in a little segmented blue box, thin and regular cut, very long wearing, and you save the old ones in the box, as you know that sometimes you need larger diameter, and other uses you don't.

On your engine placement, the farther towards the front wheel the clutch sprocket is, the more room you have to do Jackshaft, idlers, etc.. I would scribe or draw from original key way down to where you need it, cut and fit only as much of a groove as needed. I would also, usually, face the sprocket towards the engine, unless I needed the clearance, this moves chain inboard, which is always safer, that clutch works equally well either direction, because the shoes spin out on garter spring, not pivots. More room to work is always better. It would be easier to tune a Pacestetter with front and rear belts, but a jack shaft will certainly work.

Mike

 

[msrfan]

So in the last mock-up we had the engine following the front down tube closely. A preference has been stated earlier for a more upright position. Below are progressive moves to a more upright position. Does one of these look right to you? Which one?
SB

The first, most forward position, looks best to me. good distance from the front down tube, plenty of access to the critical areas, and aesthetically pleasing to the eye. But before you make permanent mounts, I would suggest the manufacture of the other components to be positioned with your motor for a final decision. I only say that because I have mounted an engine in one of my previous builds only to cut them out and start over to make room for the jack shaft and access the spark plug. The size of your engine works well with the frame though and seems to provide plenty of space.

 

[curtisfox]

Any one looks good now. Like msrfan says get all fitted and then deside. .I still like the last 2 pictures but thats just me. Wizzers are slanted forward so you deside.....Curt

 

[silverbear]

Hi SB, much water under the bridge in the last 3 years or so. The Company continues to improve and grow, with the biggest changes being in some parts made differently, assembly easier, and more precise by eliminating the 4 bends on the bearing carriers, replacing them with factory spec extrusions.

I now work full-time for the State, which is a mixed blessing, great to have steady pay, but the stress of day to day involvement in an environment where I, for the most part, am diametrically opposed to almost everything they believe and do, is very tough.

My own builds have been on the back burner for at least that long, I have a new goal for my original Drop loop Racer, a 9 cu in upright Briggs, which is 3.5 hp, 147.00 cc. It will sport a "Pacesetter" drive, another carb, whether a vintage ml2b Tillotson, with adjustable main jet, or possibly a slide carb from Texas Whizzer. Finish will be something I have never done before, rattle-can intended to be a "Barn Bike" look, in a pale blue, reminiscent of the "Mighty Pope" motorcycles of the day. I have a vintage motorcycle saddle I bought at an Antique Motor Cycle of America meet, and want to use Motorcycle wheels to get the vastly improved tires, tubes and brakes. I'm glad you reminded me of the AMF Atom wheels, I have 2 sets, and laced into small motorcycle wheel, should work great!

Yes the re-enforced Dremel wheels I got mine from Lowes, in a little segmented blue box, thin and regular cut, very long wearing, and you save the old ones in the box, as you know that sometimes you need larger diameter, and other uses you don't.

On your engine placement, the farther towards the front wheel the clutch sprocket is, the more room you have to do Jackshaft, idlers, etc.. I would scribe or draw from original key way down to where you need it, cut and fit only as much of a groove as needed. I would also, usually, face the sprocket towards the engine, unless I needed the clearance, this moves chain inboard, which is always safer, that clutch works equally well either direction, because the shoes spin out on garter spring, not pivots. More room to work is always better. It would be easier to tune a Pacestetter with front and rear belts, but a jack shaft will certainly work.

Mike

It does sound like your plate is full, Mike, with responsible adult like activities... like earning a living. I intend to do that, too, someday. Later on.

When you are able to do your build I hope you'll do a build thread here. You have a lot of knowledge to share and it is always great to follow a build.

Thanks for the key way tips! My clutch has set screws on the inside of the bell housing and a C clip at the sprocket keeping the housing in place. If I reverse the clutch then there is no place for the bell housing to go. So the sprocket has to be outboard on this one and I'd as soon not spend more money on another clutch.

Really good to hear from you!
SB

 

[RicksRides]

dang you go thru the zip ties 'lol

 

[silverbear]

Dale & Curt,
My eye likes the first one, too, but will figure the final position once the jack shaft has been made up. And thanks for that suggestion... holding off on the engine mounts until after the jack shaft is done. I just ordered the jack shaft in a 10" length... better a little too long than a little too short. The one I have is 6" and way too short. 8" might work, but what if it is a wee short? So, 10" it is. I also ordered the pillow blocks and I assume that I need at least two lock collars, is that right? Sometime next week I should have those items and can go ahead making up the jack shaft plate out of aluminum plate to carry it all.. By the time you have everything including pulley and sprocket it does add up.
Thanks for the input, you guys.
SB

 

[silverbear]

dang you go thru the zip ties 'lol

I sure did. Good I bought a bunch for cheap on ebay.
SB

 

[MotorbikeMike]

Hi SB, yes I do need to do a build thread again, tho I don't believe anyone here would show much interest in the 2 telecasters, and the Stratocaster I recently built, so I guess it will have to be a bike?

BTW what kind of clutch is that??? The Max-Torques I/We use can mount in any position.

Mike

 

[silverbear]

Mike,This is a "the price is right" clutch made by who knows. It was on an American made Sno-Flyer snow blower from the 1970's with a Tecumseh engine on it. I know it worked because I used it. I tend to use what I have, re-purpose, make do and scrounge. The bike engine is also from a 70's snow blower. It is a 147CC Jacobsen 2 stroke made in Wisconsin, a good motor. I want the bike to have a 1950's look to it. Not looking to go real fast, but it's nice to have some goose it when you twist the throttle.
SB

 

[RicksRides]

Mike,This is a "the price is right" clutch made by who knows. It was on an American made Sno-Flyer snow blower from the 1970's with a Tecumseh engine on it. I know it worked because I used it. I tend to use what I have, re-purpose, make do and scrounge. The bike engine is also from a 70's snow blower. It is a 147CC Jacobsen 2 stroke made in Wisconsin, a good motor. I want the bike to have a 1950's look to it. Not looking to go real fast, but it's nice to have some goose it when you twist the throttle.
SB

Found @ indapile store

 

[bluegoatwoods]

A fine thread, SilverBear. And it looks like you're on your way to a fine bike.

I'm impressed, too, with your ability, through this forum, to actually give and take with others over the engineering. Having gotten used to the internet I'm not all that amazed that it can be done, I guess. But in many other places on the net it would be done with a bunch of snarking and trolling.

This is a higher quality forum than many.

And as a former child of the frozen north, I'm happy for, and envious of, your ability to hunker down for the winter with a project to keep you busy. Don't forget, though, to spend some time looking out the windows watching nature's panorama. But you probably don't need me to remind you of that.

Having lost that is one of my regrets of having grown up. My current set-up can almost look rural at times. But it's not the same.

 

[silverbear]

Blue,
Thanks for you kind words. Just wrote what was probably too long a response having to do with this forum, winter coming as I write and life in the forest as an elder. I hit send and it got lost from a dropped connection. Ah well. It was just words and there are plenty more where they came from. Another time I'll say again what I attempted to say just now. There's lots of winter ahead for a chat by the fire. Be well, sir.
SB

 

[silverbear]

It has been some time since I've posted anything on this thread, but now that there is some activity I thought I'd log on. It is winter here in northern Minnesota and I'm all set for semi-hibernation with fire in the wood stove, dry wood in the shed and two bikes in my old trailer house to keep me tinkering through the winter. One is on my workbench in what used to be my bedroom... the 1934 3 speed Elgin "Velocipede" and the other is sitting in the front window of my trailer, the "kindalikeawhizzer". It gets stared at a lot while having morning coffee.

If you have followed this thread then you know the intention was to use the 147cc Jacobsen 2 stroke, but I keep remembering msfran's great Briggs builds and wonder if I'm going in the right direction.

http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=40726

This is a link to briggsandstratton's recent thread on 5 horse Briggs builds which has lots of eye candy in it showing pinups of msrfan's bikes. Take a look. First one I saw was some years ago and it was bike lust at first sight for me as I've never quite gotten the image out my mind.

So, I'm back to thinking that maybe I should go in that direction. I do like four strokes. Thanks to moderator Dan (Dan The Man) I once again have a copy of Dales (that's msrfan) great little how to build one booklet entitled "Motorize That Old Cruiser" and have been studying it over the past few days. I had lost, misplaced or loaned out my copy some time ago (likely suspects are fasteddy or tinsmith) and Dan was kind enough to scan his copy and send it to me. I have suggested that it be available to all as a sticky here on the forum.

So now I'm arm wrestling meself with what to do, oh what to do. Got my pants in a bundle over what to do! And I'm inclined to set the Jacobsen on the shelf for a future upgrade to my old Predator powered Panther and go four stroke with this build. But not Briggs.

I have two 5 hsp. 1970's Tecumseh four strokes salvaged from snow blowers. One I used for years until the carb gummed up and quit running. The other I got from Curtis Fox and has the same problem... starts but has a crapped up carburetor. In looking at them they are much like the Briggs engines and I know these Tecumsehs were also used for cart racing back when, so why not a Tecumseh? So that is the direction I'm drifting toward... a 200cc four stroke build "in the spirit of" what Dale has done with his Briggs builds. In the spirit of, but not following suit exactly. I'll follow Dale's engine placement and the same general stripping down to bare bones of the engine removing tin work and recoil starter. No bump start since I will use a different clutch/transmission arrangement which I believe is called a CVT or constant velocity transmission, something like that. It is newish sitting on a shelf and ready to bolt on which saves me having to make up a clutch and jack shaft. Without a real shop to work in and being limited in both skill and appropriate tools, a simpler approach is better for me. Less fabricating is good. I think that is what put me off years ago when I wanted to follow in Dales footsteps with my own Briggs build. Making a compression release, his home made clutch, etc. Brilliant stuff, but beyond my abilities.

As for a compression release, which I do want and think I will need for the way I intend to start the engine... I believe it was cannonball2 who clued me in to compression release plug deals on some chainsaws. Also on some Harley Davidson motorcycles. You pull up a little plunger deal on this compression release (or maybe it's the other way around and you push it down), start your engine and when it catches it automatically pulls the plunger dealy back down (or maybe it pushes it up) for full compression. Sounds like all I would need to do is figure out where to drill the hole, thread it and screw in the compression release. No cables or anything. Cool beans.

Starting can't be by pedaling for a couple of reasons. For one I'm no good at pedaling which is what led me to motored bikes in the first place. Some years ago after being struck by lightning I developed a condition called Guillane Barre Syndrome which has symptoms like polio. The other reason is the transmission system I intend to use which would be like having a centrifugal clutch. So how to start it? Leaving the recoil start on it makes it really wide and looks phooey. Not cool.

About a month ago I got a serious brain fart which led to an idea for a hand crank starter like on old tractors and early automobiles. I had one on a 1950's MGTD. One fart led to another (you know how it is when you have mechanical problem induced gas) and I came up with using a ratcheting brace (as in an old time drill or "brace & bit" as used by your grandpa) with a modified socket extension so that a standard socket would fit on the flywheel nut. I tried it on my 98cc Villiars and it is the cat's meow. But I figure I will need the compression release for the bigger Tecumseh to make turning it over that much easier.

Last evening I started stripping down the Tecumseh and I like what I see. I'll do some pictures for show and tell pretty soon. Before I get too far is there some compelling reason I should not be using the Tecumseh 5 horse? I'm no expert and will not be offended. I can find a Briggs and even have one that is an "easy start" which I believe is 5 horse. Unless there's a good reason, I'm inclined to break ranks a little and do something slightly different.

Made in Wisconsin, USA, the engine took it's name from the Shawnee Indian war chief Tecumseh who led a confederacy of tribes to turn back the invasion of white skinned Europeans following the revolutionary war. He is revered among Indians and so that is enough reason for me to lean in the direction of Tecumseh, to honor his name. I have another build called an Indian Hiawatha. Can't help it that I'm made this way. Ha! It also seems to me that there are a lot of great old motors made in the USA besides Briggs & Stratton which deserve some attention. Wisconsin is another one. Clinton made in Clinton, Iowa. And there are more.

That's it for now. But as the terminator said, "I'll be back"!
SB