"kindalikeawhizzer"

[RicksRides]

SB,
looking good, Id face it the other way and see if itll go a little lower.
low centre of gravity.
To cure the width problem use a sprocket on the engine and the clutch on a jackshaft
then cut out excess crankshaft
itll take some creative staring to figure it out but I can see it. A small 2nd jackshaft cause the clutch must be driven but I can see it. lol
Rick

 

[curtisfox]

Or you could use a vebelt clutch on the shaft then just drive it from the engine..........Curt

 

[silverbear]

Here is the engine placed in the opposite position which looks better I think. It will still be a tight squeeze with the air filter, but will work. It can be a bit lower at the bottom end, too. To lower it more than that would require doing away with the chain guard and lower yet by going to a smaller chain ring. I'd rather keep the chain guard. I think, especially after Ray sending me his. He is now part of this build and so is Chainmaker with his sheave and belts. So is Tinsmith with the gas tank. Already a group effort...

The width of the engine on the shaft side is about the same as on the pull start side, so any way I look at it I'm going to need a wide pedal arrangement. They are only going to be there for the appearance of being legal and as foot rests. I have no plans for pedaling...

The last photo is of the bracket I intend to use for attaching the jack shaft plate which I will make up from 1/4" aluminum I have. The bracket has been used by others with success, most recently by labrat. The bracket is made for a 1 1/4" post, but my seat post is 1" so I will need to make up a shim to make up the difference. I was thinking if I cut the shim from steel I could drill two holes in the shim and thread them, then weld the shim to the seat post. Drill corresponding holes in the mounting bracket and two bolts could thread into the shim to give more assurance of the bracket not shifting under power.

Anyway, this is becoming easier to visualize and at least I know that the engine will fit.

The other thing better about this engine position is that the factory mounting holes on the engine will be facing the bottom of the bike making the mounting a bit easier I think.

Further thoughts on engine placement, drive line, pedal cranks or whatever are welcome. I can use all the help I can get.
SB

 

[silverbear]

Mounting the clutch like that should be fine SB. The centrifugal clutch originally fitted to some Villiers engines mounts in exactly the same way which puts the pull of the chain drive close to the crankshaft main bearings which must be a good thing from an engineering point of view.
I must try out that method of using zip ties to test mount an engine. I tend to prop engines with pieces of wood which isn't always the best way when it comes to odd shaped engines.

Good to know there is a precedent for turning the clutch the other way. Thanks!
SB

 

[silverbear]

SB,
looking good, Id face it the other way and see if itll go a little lower.
low centre of gravity.
To cure the width problem use a sprocket on the engine and the clutch on a jackshaft
then cut out excess crankshaft
itll take some creative staring to figure it out but I can see it. A small 2nd jackshaft cause the clutch must be driven but I can see it. lol
Rick

How would I attach the sprocket to the shaft since the keyway is at the outer end of the shaft? Weld it?
SB

 

[silverbear]

Or you could use a vebelt clutch on the shaft then just drive it from the engine..........Curt

To make it align with the sheave I would need to have a keyway made in the shaft up close to the engine to keep the clutch in place. Since the pull start sticks out, too, I'm hoping I can take care of the problem with super wide pedals.
SB

 

[mason_man]

Ray,
I wanted to thank you again for the feather chain guard and also wanted you to know that I am kind of paying it forward as the saying goes. The tin gas tank in the photo below I have sent to Curtis Fox for his Schwinn/Briggs build. He's a happy camper! Giving things to others on the forum is a great way to feel like you're rich even when you ain't. Way back when I made that gas tank in the photo it was through the kindness of Tinsmith who showed me how and for the most part made the copper version I'm using for this project. I don't need the tin one and when I saw what Curt was up to I thought, "Aha"! and asked if he wanted it. He did. Curtis is nearing completion on a leaf spring fork he is making for my going-on-forever Indian Hiawatha build, so it goes back and forth with no money exchanged. I upholstered a vintage seat for him a couple of years ago, earlier this year he sent me a differential axle I can use for a trike. What a great forum and what a good way to deal with each other. The best thing about it is the friendships which come.


I know you were on the lookout for a genuine whizzer center stand for me and I appreciate your consideration and your efforts to find one. This being just "kindalikeawhizzer" my copper stands are good enough. If there is something I can do for you or a part I have that you can use, please don't hesitate. When you need to have a seat redone and it doesn't have to be perfect ( I don't do perfect anything), keep me in mind.
SB

Thank you SB, and I really Appreciate the friendship and offer, I've seen some of the seats you've done, very nice.
The bike is really coming along, Thanks for all the great details to it.

Ray

 

[RicksRides]

How would I attach the sprocket to the shaft since the keyway is at the outer end of the shaft? Weld it?
SB

Nope just grind an area flat where the sprocket goes that'll give the screw a place to grip and it cant move, use both set screws they will hold.

 

[RicksRides]

SB,
to lower the engine and save the chain gaurd switch out your crank for one off of a little kids bike. On the pennysworth I used ones off a strawberry shortcake bike. Smaller sprocket. Then you can lower your chain gaurd or even swap it out for a smaller one. Check out pics of the pennysworth to see how it turned out.
Rick

 

[silverbear]

Nope just grind an area flat where the sprocket goes that'll give the screw a place to grip and it cant move, use both set screws they will hold.

How to cut off the shaft? Will a cut off wheel on the side grinder be adequate?

if I go this route I could mount the engine off center in order to draw in the pull start side closer to the bike.

Thanks, Rick
SB

 

[curtisfox]

Yes on both counts. The old Briggs had a drilled spot on the crank shaft were the set screw seated it self,drilled just deep enough to make a dimple.
Just like Harry's Viller beach cruiser,belt to shaft then clutch behind to rear wheel. And you could just dimple that shaft with a drill for the clutch also..............Curt

PS if i am right the pictures show that you have a small sprocket allready on there maybe just revamp the gard brackets and drop it down

 

[RicksRides]

I've always used a hacksaw or saws-all to cut excess cranks off

 

[silverbear]

I want to thank you guys. You've given me some options to mull over. I have a few Schwinn chain guards that are not the feather type, but it seems to me that the mounting part inside is similar on other styles. Tomorrow I'll study it to see if I can use a different mounting, but still use the Feather guard itself. Don't know what I have in a smaller sprocket, but will take a look.

Shifting the engine off center to the left a little allows the spark plug to miss the front down tube and also sets the Walbro carburetor just to the left of the seat tube, freeing up a good amount of wiggle room. I'll re-position the engine and zip ties for photos to study.

I was just staring at the bike having reversed the clutch so that the sprocket is outboard and the clutch itself is tucked in as close to the engine as possible. A fair amount of the crankshaft could be removed. That is if I leave the clutch on the engine with primary drive being chain to an outboard sprocket on the jack shaft and an inboard pulley on the inside of the jack shaft in line with the sheave. That would be the least expensive option for me since I already have the clutch and know it works since it used to be on a snow blower I used some years ago with a Tecumseh engine. What is the downside of my doing the power line this way?

With more money invested in a clutch with pulley instead of sprocket on the jack shaft there would be pulley primary drive and pulley final drive. Rick, you mentioned something about a second jack shaft, as I understand it so that the re would be a pulley on the engine crankshaft (closer yet to the engine) going to a pulley type clutch... but why couldn't that clutch be on the jack shaft I was going to have anyway? What is the need for yet another jack shaft, or am I misunderstanding? Thanks for thinking this through and explaining things to me.
SB

Was also just thinking that the sprocket could be on the craskshaft and the clutch with sprocket could be on the jack shaft, yes?

 

[RicksRides]

Sprocket on engine
1st jackshaft has a sprocket on it with chain to engine sprocket then the clutch
2nd shaft has sprocket with chain to clutch then a pulley to the rear sheath

thats my thought
rick

 

[silverbear]

Sprocket on engine
1st jackshaft has a sprocket on it with chain to engine sprocket then the clutch
2nd shaft has sprocket with chain to clutch then a pulley to the rear sheath

thats my thought
rick

I don't understand the need for two jack shafts. Why wouldn't a toothed sprocket on the engine shaft with the chain leading to a jack shaft which has the clutch with sprocket on the outboard side and on the inboard side a pulley with the belt leading to the sheave. .. Why wouldn't that work? Why are two jack shafts better?

I admit an ignorance of these things. Until I came to this forum I had never heard of such a thing as a "jack shaft". I'm not suggesting you are wrong, Rick, just saying that I don't understand and want to. I do appreciate your input and know that you've been doing things mechanical for a long time. I fixed the clutch and brakes on my MGTD 40 some years ago and thought I was "mechanical". I've learned since that was not quite true. Liking machines and understanding them are not the same thing. I may be older than you, but you are the teacher here. I am the slow,old student. Ha!
SB

 

[RicksRides]

the inside of the clutch must be the part spinning for it to work if you take a chain from the engine to the clutch just the outer bell spins( clutch wont grip)so the chain must go from the engine to a sprocket on the jackshaft so it spins the inerds of the clutch

 

[curtisfox]

the inside of the clutch must be the part spinning for it to work if you take a chain from the engine to the clutch just the outer bell spins( clutch wont grip)so the chain must go from the engine to a sprocket on the jackshaft so it spins the inerds of the clutch

Yep then a chain form the clutch to a sproket second shaft to change from chain to belt to the wheel pully

 

[silverbear]

Pictures 1 & 2 show the conduit clips being ground down so the little leg is gone from each one. Last photo was sent to me by Curtis and is of the shaft on his Briggs engine which was dimpled and drilled a bit to hold a set screw. Thanks, Curt.

I know you guys are trying to help the slow kid, but here goes again. Photos 3 & 4 show the clutch with sprocket on the engine shaft, snugged up closer to the engine. 1 1/4" can be cut off the engine shaft if the clutch is used in this way. As I understand it, with the engine idling the bell and sprocket just sit there. With more throttle and higher engine rpms the engine shaft spins fast enough for the clutch to engage at which time the bell and sprocket spin around. Via a chain from the clutch sprocket a corresponding sprocket on the jack shaft spins around as well and (not pictured because I don't have one) is a small pulley sitting next to it on the same jack shaft and which is aligned with the sheave on the rear wheel. When the clutch is engaged the rear wheel propels Silverbear off into the sunset smiling and singing cowboy songs. Ahead is Jay Leno at a stop cactus. We say howdy and admire each others fine rides. I say "adios, gott a git a'goin' pardner" and goose the throttle leaving Jay in astonishment and trying to keep up. He calls out, "Silverbear, wait, wait, I can't go that fast!"

Well, maybe not the Jay Leno part, but as for the rest, why won't that work?
SB

 

[curtisfox]

Welcome!
Hay the clutch fits on the shaft all the way? yep thats how it will work.Or you could still turn it around if you need more room to move the engine.......Curt

 

[silverbear]

Without explaining why, the clutch can't be reversed if it is up against the engine. (set screws are inside). That's a relief to know it will work.

And now, as Paul Harvey said, "...this is the rest of the story." Thirsty, I pulled in at the Road Kill Cafe and bought myself a root beer. Dads on tap in a frosty mug. Ahhhh. In comes Jay all sweaty and out of breath. He has been pedal assisting his ride, attempting to catch up. I buy him a frosty mug of root beer and roll a cigarette with one hand. I can see he is impressed with my manly skill and dexterity. I light up and blow some perfect smoke rings toward the pressed tin ceiling. Jay smiles and says,"Say, your bike, that's kindalikeawhizzer isn't it?" I smile, nod my head and say, "yeah, you got it, Bud,... it's kindalikeawhizzer! If you don't mind my saying so Jay, you're a lot smarter than ya look!" He is pleased I can tell and says, "Well, thanks, Silverbear." And that is the rest of the story...
SB