It'll work that way, just not for very long!
The parts kit to convert would be pretty pricey - probably as much as the hub itself. There just doesn't appear to be enough volume to support any economy of scale, sadly.
inside the nuvinci hub
- Thread starter camlifter
- Start date
The parts kit to convert would be pretty pricey - probably as much as the hub itself. There just doesn't appear to be enough volume to support any economy of scale, sadly.
Ok how many members do we have on the forum? How many will buy one! How fast will it catch on! I am thinking through the key board again.
if the drive rings for a left side drive could be sold for $150 a set i'll take 5 sets.
on the hubs using only every other roller they could be built half and half, half the ramps cut for right side drive and the other half for left side drive, then the end user could make it Lhd if they wanted too.
sounds like an ez way to open up a new market for the hub, i think fallbrook would sell a lot more Lhd once the word got out than they think.
most hard core bicycle people into high end bikes are super anal about weight and dismiss the nuvinci just for it's weight. us MB'ers don't care about the extra weight.
on the hubs using only every other roller they could be built half and half, half the ramps cut for right side drive and the other half for left side drive, then the end user could make it Lhd if they wanted too.
sounds like an ez way to open up a new market for the hub, i think fallbrook would sell a lot more Lhd once the word got out than they think.
most hard core bicycle people into high end bikes are super anal about weight and dismiss the nuvinci just for it's weight. us MB'ers don't care about the extra weight.
I don't know about anal, or even drag issues with a fine tooth comb, but sure, it makes sense you will get some extra drag power loss to wheel, it all comes down to the power gain you get where you want it to me and I love gears too.
Hub/derailer gears sure, worth the loss to me with a JS, I ride one every day, but it is this NuViinci that really has me intrigued.
I like being intrigued ;-}
As mentioned already in what.. this 7 page long topic?
Gearing changes everything. Heck, look at big rigs, 5 gears and triple axle settings for each.
Heck, just the 1 ton trucks I drove for dad's company when I was young had 5 speeds with a High-Low axle giving you 10 speeds made a huge difference.
The ability to literally program for say usable range of 64 gears based on the bike live in use just blows me away.
Cheap? Pfftt, no way. We are talking high end builds
Cool though? Well, I don't know how cooler you could get than with an automatic even 15 speed enclosed hub and JS if you programmed it properly for the bike and motor to always use the 'sweet spot' of motor RPM.
No telling what an X-chamber would add to that either.
Again, intriguing ideas. Anyone done it?
'It' being programing an MB with the NV to be perfect with a boatload of gear changes to keep it there.
The trick as far as production bikes would be just getting the hub without all the fancy gizmos.
Once you have them all you need is the basic hub right?
Program it and good to go almost as easy as any other shifter bike.
Just ideas guys.
Until I have one to play with, that is all they are, I just see the potential is all.
One more note... it is just two files to program the hub, and you could share them ;-}
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Given the comparison between two of my bikes, one with & one without a jackshaft yet otherwise having similar engine mods... I'd hafta say your loss estimates are extremely high. While I'll not dispute the fact there's some loss due to the added drag and friction - with proper alignment & well lubed chains & bearings the loss is marginal.
lol - with a stock Happy Time, lose 3/4hp and ya'd come close to stopping it dead in it's tracks, we'd have complaints all over the forum
lol - with a stock Happy Time, lose 3/4hp and ya'd come close to stopping it dead in it's tracks, we'd have complaints all over the forum
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i'd have to say that the jack shaft shifter kit on my morini build has multiplied the torque out put. i've tried 3 differant wheels using the kit and right side chain drive, it has destroyed all 3. it is even breaking the #41 chain, i have a worksman wheel on it now with the sprocket welded fixed to the hub, it is bending the teeth on the sprocket and has bent the axle and broken the chain several times. if i were to go with a direct left side drive i'm sure it would hold up. one thing i can say though is the sbp shift kit is tough unit, not a hint of trouble out of it.
I have had great luck with my SBP jack shaft kit and truly love it. I am glad I got one! I highly recommend it. I am about to put another one together. Meaning I will have two working SBP kits and one ho-made Morini set up.
I just want the left side drive hub becuase of my constant fascination for perfection. Sadly the J shaft set up owns the market. It prolly will never happen. N.V. has no incentive to change anything because of lack of demand. Folks will buy kits or make them and continue to make right hand drive. lol Not enough demand. The market needs to grow more.
With that said all is still peachy for every one. We can all still have gears!
You folks will love a SBP J shaft kit. Gears are awsome
If you look over the forum every one recommends them. There are no worries there is full total support here on the forum for any questions concerning them. No one is sorry they got one including me..
I have yet to see any vendor on the forum offer better support either. They win hands down. I love them!
I can't think of any better compliment to it than a N.V wheel. They shift on the fly.
KCvale you should get one! Your gonna love it!
I just want the left side drive hub becuase of my constant fascination for perfection. Sadly the J shaft set up owns the market. It prolly will never happen. N.V. has no incentive to change anything because of lack of demand. Folks will buy kits or make them and continue to make right hand drive. lol Not enough demand. The market needs to grow more.
With that said all is still peachy for every one. We can all still have gears!
You folks will love a SBP J shaft kit. Gears are awsome
If you look over the forum every one recommends them. There are no worries there is full total support here on the forum for any questions concerning them. No one is sorry they got one including me..I have yet to see any vendor on the forum offer better support either. They win hands down. I love them!
I can't think of any better compliment to it than a N.V wheel. They shift on the fly.
KCvale you should get one! Your gonna love it!
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I have every intention of trying out a NV hub.You folks will love a SBP J shaft kit. Gears are awsome
I have yet to see any vendor on the forum offer better support either. They win hands down. I love them!
I can't think of any better compliment to it than a N.V wheel. They shift on the fly.
KCvale you should get one! Your gonna love it!
It was nice to see you re-think your figures for the losses on a SickBikes Jackshaft goat, I have run bikes side by side to 30 MPH and gears win in every way every time EXCEPT when I put that light little moon dog with a 66cc and X-chamber direct drive against my stock 48cc heavy 3-speed luxury ride. Pfftt, gears couldn't make up for the dogs shear power.
camlifter, ohhh ya, torque to the wheel. tore up 3 hubs ehh? ouch.
You run an X-chamber and other mods I assume?
I have the older 3 piece SBP JS kit, not tried their new 1 piece, but it looks like it would eliminate any shaft misalignment issues completely but I never had any.
It sure looks like it would be easier to install, that's for sure.
One other thing that is seldom mentioned with a JS is it has dual seat post mounting brackets, really aggressive ones that bite in well. That almost makes the front motor mount a moot point.
It doesn't of course and you need one, but the way a JS mounts to the motor, transfers the torque to the right on the motor, then straight down to the crank, you just don't get that lateral pull to the left you have with left side straight drive chain.
But back to the programmable NV hub and Developers Kit...
I think my best bet is to just sell my bike and start with a fresh bike and JS that would be more conducive to letting me temp mount a laptop to play with it under real riding conditions.
Trying to use 64 gear shifts would be silly, fun to try but silly, a dozen strategic ones however seems a good place to start and then test it under varying conditions like hills and loads.
How many shift changes that you guys that have a NV and programed it use?
my build has the morini s6s 9.4 hp engine, it's a real beast. i thought the sbp j-shaft kit would be the weak point, but it turned out to be the rear wheel for me. the sbp kit has held up to way more than sbp ever though anyone would do to it.
WOW!
That has to be the most impressive (to me) build I have ever seen.
So what, a 3-speed hub or a NV?
An X-chamber and what motor?
9HP? That is 3x minimum more than any normal kit.
So if it is NV hub did you program it?
Please share ;-}
I have about a hundred miles on my NuVinci now and the only problem is that it does leak a little past the seal after riding... I also back off the throttle whenever shifting the range up or down to try and baby it a little.
in that pic it has a nuvinci hub, cable shift, the pipe is a modded kx65 pipe. my nuvinci didn't hold up long to the power. i'm making some mods to the nuvinci and will try using it again. so far i've not found a hub to hold up to the morini.
I finally got my local bike shop to install that spiffy $600 NuVinci fully automatic and programmable electronically controlled hub in my motorized bikes rim for me as a web site ad banner trade-out ;-}
It's big, really big.
I totally rebuilt the bike and put a new 66cc 2010 Grubee motor on it with my old Jackshaft as well, and the new motor runs great!
I broke the controller module and awaiting a replacement but not before I got I got a chance to test ride it.
Though not required for operation my Developers Kit came with the optional Remote Display Controller.
Man is this thing cool...
I already have 3 shift maps programmed into it, Range, Speed and DragRace2 ;-}
Once I get a new controller board I will add another few shift maps geared to my exact riding conditions via the USB connector to my Laptop or PC and the programing software, and then update my My Ride topic here.
Personal Tech Notes:
These hubs fit in nicely but the shifting motor does not move in and out like a 3-speed hub shifter, it rotates 4 full 360 turns to pick a 'gear' ratio.
With mechanical stops figure ~900 minute 'gear' positions in increments from -0.5 to 1.8 wheel drive ratio.
To make things easy to read and understand I simply broke those 900 turns at 50 per Remote Manual shift to 90 turns at 5 at a time.
Here is an .avi of it in action. http://KCsBikes.com/pics/KCnvTest.avi - 152 Mb, 26 MB, but detailed.
The hub does freewheel but not very smooth or 'free', nor does it come with an ISO 24' x 1-3/8" TPI drive sprocket.
I put on a free wheel 18 tooth.
I don't know how I would ever get it back off, so consider the gear ratio for what you want before committing to a wheel sprocket, or test with fixed sprockets first.
Once programed the controller and battery can be self contained in a little package on the back kind of like this.
(continued below)
It's big, really big.
I totally rebuilt the bike and put a new 66cc 2010 Grubee motor on it with my old Jackshaft as well, and the new motor runs great!
I broke the controller module and awaiting a replacement but not before I got I got a chance to test ride it.
Though not required for operation my Developers Kit came with the optional Remote Display Controller.
Man is this thing cool...
I already have 3 shift maps programmed into it, Range, Speed and DragRace2 ;-}
Once I get a new controller board I will add another few shift maps geared to my exact riding conditions via the USB connector to my Laptop or PC and the programing software, and then update my My Ride topic here.
Personal Tech Notes:
These hubs fit in nicely but the shifting motor does not move in and out like a 3-speed hub shifter, it rotates 4 full 360 turns to pick a 'gear' ratio.
With mechanical stops figure ~900 minute 'gear' positions in increments from -0.5 to 1.8 wheel drive ratio.
To make things easy to read and understand I simply broke those 900 turns at 50 per Remote Manual shift to 90 turns at 5 at a time.
Here is an .avi of it in action. http://KCsBikes.com/pics/KCnvTest.avi - 152 Mb, 26 MB, but detailed.
The hub does freewheel but not very smooth or 'free', nor does it come with an ISO 24' x 1-3/8" TPI drive sprocket.
I put on a free wheel 18 tooth.
I don't know how I would ever get it back off, so consider the gear ratio for what you want before committing to a wheel sprocket, or test with fixed sprockets first.
Once programed the controller and battery can be self contained in a little package on the back kind of like this.
(continued below)
Tech Notes Continued:
Please note that all of the hub controller stuff is still in temp mount while I test! Wait for the final build before you tear it apart this time ;-}
I am using this 12V 4.5AH sealed lead/acid battery:
Nominal Voltage . . . . . 12.0 v
NominalCapacity . . . . . 4.5 Ah, 4500 mAh
Max.Charging current . .. 1.35 A
Max.Discharging current . 67.5 A max
Dimensions 90mm(3.55") x 70mm(2.76") x 101mm(3.98") (LxWxH)
Weight . . 4 lb (1814 g)
Terminal . T1
$16 +SH
It mounts nicely on my rack and the the controller case mounts on top with the power and wire harness plugs protected but accessible.
BEWARE THE DEV KIT SURFACE MOUNT CONNECTORS!
I have already alerted NuVinci Tech about this, and maybe it is just my board, but I am not posting my otherwise finished upgrade pics because of one simple flaw in PCB production.
They didn't glue down the PCB board Remote Control Display connector when they glued the rest, and when I tried to pull it back out it off it came up off it's little surface mount connections and took PCB land patterns with it.
I re-soldered a jumper wire from the back ...
...and then just ran jumper to the top and re-soldered the other 3 connections and it worked...
... but come on, the guy gluing the easy to plug connectors an inch away didn't glue the big surface mounted Molex too?
That thing needs top and bottom securing like all the other Molex ones have.
In short though, with some good wiring techniques even the unruly wiring can be made virtually invisible.
Cheap? Not on your life.
Worth it now? We'll see.
Can the tech itself be programed for MB's with the a simple range of automatic pre-programmed settings designed for MB's in a smaller less costly package, like around the same price as having an 8 speed internal hub shifter? If so this could be a real big hit with us.
All I can say for now is I was impressed despite this setback with my short run even with a first start brand new motor.
It hit 3/4 power band (for a cold brand new motor) and stayed there as the gear positions numbers seamlessly wizzed by on my display to 30 MPH in about 30 seconds ;-}
Please note that all of the hub controller stuff is still in temp mount while I test! Wait for the final build before you tear it apart this time ;-}
I am using this 12V 4.5AH sealed lead/acid battery:
Nominal Voltage . . . . . 12.0 v
NominalCapacity . . . . . 4.5 Ah, 4500 mAh
Max.Charging current . .. 1.35 A
Max.Discharging current . 67.5 A max
Dimensions 90mm(3.55") x 70mm(2.76") x 101mm(3.98") (LxWxH)
Weight . . 4 lb (1814 g)
Terminal . T1
$16 +SH
It mounts nicely on my rack and the the controller case mounts on top with the power and wire harness plugs protected but accessible.
BEWARE THE DEV KIT SURFACE MOUNT CONNECTORS!
I have already alerted NuVinci Tech about this, and maybe it is just my board, but I am not posting my otherwise finished upgrade pics because of one simple flaw in PCB production.
They didn't glue down the PCB board Remote Control Display connector when they glued the rest, and when I tried to pull it back out it off it came up off it's little surface mount connections and took PCB land patterns with it.
I re-soldered a jumper wire from the back ...
...and then just ran jumper to the top and re-soldered the other 3 connections and it worked...
... but come on, the guy gluing the easy to plug connectors an inch away didn't glue the big surface mounted Molex too?
That thing needs top and bottom securing like all the other Molex ones have.
In short though, with some good wiring techniques even the unruly wiring can be made virtually invisible.
Cheap? Not on your life.
Worth it now? We'll see.
Can the tech itself be programed for MB's with the a simple range of automatic pre-programmed settings designed for MB's in a smaller less costly package, like around the same price as having an 8 speed internal hub shifter? If so this could be a real big hit with us.
All I can say for now is I was impressed despite this setback with my short run even with a first start brand new motor.
It hit 3/4 power band (for a cold brand new motor) and stayed there as the gear positions numbers seamlessly wizzed by on my display to 30 MPH in about 30 seconds ;-}
I had the same problem wondering how to remove the freewheel sprocket....until Dave Staton told me the obvious......impact wrench. Worked like a charm....5 seconds.
Spiffy tip, I'll keep that in mind in case I ever want to change that sprocket.
I'm not sure if this is posted here or not but I have on my clipboard so I might as well post it here so those that don't know the Dev Kit hub can understand how it works.
Actually there are no 'gears' in it, it is called a Continuously Variable Planetary (CVP) Transmission hub, and the Speed Ratio range is from 0.5 (underdrive) to 1.75 (overdrive) in about 900 uselable increments controlled by an electric stepper motor and computer controller.
NuVinci® Overview
The NuVinci transmission uses a set of rotating and tilting balls positioned between the input and output components of a transmission that tilt to vary the speed of the transmission.
Click here for links to a demonstration video
Tilting the balls changes their contact diameters and varies the speed ratio. As a result, the NuVinci CVP offers seamless and continuous transition to any ratio within its range, thus maximizing overall powertrain efficiency, with no jarring or shocks from the shifting process, and improving acceleration, performance and overall vehicle efficiency over conventional transmissions.
Very cool, and it really was seamless and smooth to me ;-}
good info, my 171 nv hub freewheeled great, no drag at all. did you over tighten the freewheel nut. i also tried getting my freewheel sprocket off and couldn't do it, even tried an impact driver, all that did was break the splines on my costly nv freewheel tool.
After my big carcass has set on my hub for many miles now. I am of the impression that I will have to do a special surgery and use rotary files to split the free wheel nut to get mine off if I had to. It is still working tho.