Buy a car from those guys? I wouldn't even allow them on the property.
Steve.
Steve.
Indian Hiawatha
- Thread starter silverbear
- Start date
Silverbear and I have been emailing back and forth like it was old times. Topic has been front fenders. On the Hiawatha Arrow from the late 1930's the fenders have very Art Deco styling.
Silver bear has the rear fender but the front one is gone so now we get to make two of them. The fenders look longer that what is available today so my plan is to cut down two rear fenders I have left over to the approximate length.
Then the plan is to bend some tubing with the curve the front fender strut has on the original and split them on a band saw. Then they can be riveted on the fender and a mount for the axle added. The lower strut is a normal one or things may get fancy there as well.
Here is a side view of an original bike.
Steve.
Silver bear has the rear fender but the front one is gone so now we get to make two of them. The fenders look longer that what is available today so my plan is to cut down two rear fenders I have left over to the approximate length.
Then the plan is to bend some tubing with the curve the front fender strut has on the original and split them on a band saw. Then they can be riveted on the fender and a mount for the axle added. The lower strut is a normal one or things may get fancy there as well.
Here is a side view of an original bike.
Steve.
I guess I better get my rear in gear. You guys are making me out to be a slacker.
Well, alright, I am, and I am good at it.
Tom
Well, alright, I am, and I am good at it.
Tom
Steve, your post re the longer fenders rang a bell with me. You might want to check out the longer grp fenders offered by Jim Henderson - (TRM, The Renaissance Man) - whose superb craftsmanship I'm both a fan and satisfied customer of. He posts regularly on the Rat Rod Bikes forum and has a fantastic website. Take a gender. Top quality pro workmanship, no question.
https://www.ratrodbikes.com/build_off_13_winner Love it Nice.........Curt
Thanks for posting the TRM link Curt. Just spent the last hour sauntering through Jim Henderson's TRM facebook page after clicking on the link. Man, lots of super cool bikes been built using Jim's Convertible Tanks and other great parts. I used Jim's tank on my DECOLINER build.
PS: I think Jim refers to his extended fenders as Mullet Fenders. There was a whole section on his facebook page at one time about their development from design through to the finished pro-moulded product. I reckon these flared-rear fenders would add a great deal of 'flair' to the chair of any Tadpole.
PS: I think Jim refers to his extended fenders as Mullet Fenders. There was a whole section on his facebook page at one time about their development from design through to the finished pro-moulded product. I reckon these flared-rear fenders would add a great deal of 'flair' to the chair of any Tadpole.
We’ll, it is a beginning or rebeginning…a starting all over again from where we left off anyway. Today I started putting the tri-car front end on the Hiawatha and did some serious staring as it reminded me of our original vision. First I need to figure out how it went together, find a suitable replacement bolt and nut and then another nut… should have kept parts more in the same place. No doubt I have those little parts labeled in a bag, but who knows where? Too many years have passed. Even as it is I can get excited about it all over again.
With no seat in front it looks like a lot of real estate going to waste, but picture Steve’s seat sitting there and a couple honker headlights to each side of it and it will be closer to ”just right”.
And I think it looks enough like the original that they surely look like members of the same genetic family….maybe ”kissing cousins” even
SB.
With no seat in front it looks like a lot of real estate going to waste, but picture Steve’s seat sitting there and a couple honker headlights to each side of it and it will be closer to ”just right”.
And I think it looks enough like the original that they surely look like members of the same genetic family….maybe ”kissing cousins” even
SB.
Attachments
Steve,
Indeed, back in action we are. I have the original front fender from the 1939 Hiawatha and one fender ornament. I think the most important single element to the front fenders is the curved struts and even those don’t have to be like the originals, just have the same curve. Repurposing other fenders is good. No reason to buy antique ones. No matter what we do with fenders that front end is going to look good. Cold today, but I think I’ll go out to the garage this afternoon to find that front fender and the two headlights we started on. Helps to visualize. As for the fender ornament, if I could find a second one reasonably priced it would be nice, but not at all necessary since there is no Indian Hiawatha to emulate. We are making the first and only one. I have been thinking about having Hiawatha decals made for the gas tank, something similar to the original Indian script. The head badge already says Indian on it with the image of an Indian head profile copied from original head badges. With the tank decals that would be enough to make it an authentic Indian Hiawatha to the gullible and make real it’s identity to me. I am more easily convinced than most.
Just wondering if Dave the MotorMan is still active in case the engine has an ongoing shift problem. Finding anyone else who knows these old motors is unlikely and makes me wonder if choosing this wonderful, beautiful antique was such a good idea after all. 1934 is a long time ago. If it runs, then yes. If it doesn’t then it will make an interesting piece of furniture in someone’s man cave.
I’m hopeful for next summer and have been in touch with Tinsmith who, health issues permitting, would like to rendezvous with us at bike camp this summer. Wouldn’t that be great!
Also, I like the image you linked of the Hiawatha Arrow showing the curved fender struts. Curvaceous Marilyn Monroe handlebars on it. A little much, I think.
SB
Indeed, back in action we are. I have the original front fender from the 1939 Hiawatha and one fender ornament. I think the most important single element to the front fenders is the curved struts and even those don’t have to be like the originals, just have the same curve. Repurposing other fenders is good. No reason to buy antique ones. No matter what we do with fenders that front end is going to look good. Cold today, but I think I’ll go out to the garage this afternoon to find that front fender and the two headlights we started on. Helps to visualize. As for the fender ornament, if I could find a second one reasonably priced it would be nice, but not at all necessary since there is no Indian Hiawatha to emulate. We are making the first and only one. I have been thinking about having Hiawatha decals made for the gas tank, something similar to the original Indian script. The head badge already says Indian on it with the image of an Indian head profile copied from original head badges. With the tank decals that would be enough to make it an authentic Indian Hiawatha to the gullible and make real it’s identity to me. I am more easily convinced than most.
Just wondering if Dave the MotorMan is still active in case the engine has an ongoing shift problem. Finding anyone else who knows these old motors is unlikely and makes me wonder if choosing this wonderful, beautiful antique was such a good idea after all. 1934 is a long time ago. If it runs, then yes. If it doesn’t then it will make an interesting piece of furniture in someone’s man cave.
I’m hopeful for next summer and have been in touch with Tinsmith who, health issues permitting, would like to rendezvous with us at bike camp this summer. Wouldn’t that be great!
Also, I like the image you linked of the Hiawatha Arrow showing the curved fender struts. Curvaceous Marilyn Monroe handlebars on it. A little much, I think.
SB
Great seeing this thread re-invigorated. Even talking deadlines!!! With luck, we could all end up benefitting from the knock-on effect...
Shelby Airflow handle bars on eBay. Price is $150 U.S. on eBay. When you find the fender can you measure the length from top to bottom for me. That will cut out the guess work.
Repro Hiawatha fender ornaments on eBay as well. Cost $96 U.S. They would add to the bling.
You modified the head lights to work on LED. Did we make the stands for them? If not I have to come up with something for the lights I bought. Times two?
Dave was still active as of a couple of weeks ago. He's had some tempting vintage engines recently but I suspect the buyers pool is shrinking.
If Dan can make it that would be great. Perhaps Tom from Rubicon can make it as well.
No reason that the tri car can't be a Hiawatha and an Indian. He was indeed a First Nations person. A Hiawatha Roy Rodgers would be a bit of a stretch I thnk.
I'm having fun trying to remember where I left off with various things and where the parts are.
The Boys are back. Roll on.
Steve.
Repro Hiawatha fender ornaments on eBay as well. Cost $96 U.S. They would add to the bling.
You modified the head lights to work on LED. Did we make the stands for them? If not I have to come up with something for the lights I bought. Times two?
Dave was still active as of a couple of weeks ago. He's had some tempting vintage engines recently but I suspect the buyers pool is shrinking.
If Dan can make it that would be great. Perhaps Tom from Rubicon can make it as well.
No reason that the tri car can't be a Hiawatha and an Indian. He was indeed a First Nations person. A Hiawatha Roy Rodgers would be a bit of a stretch I thnk.
I'm having fun trying to remember where I left off with various things and where the parts are.
The Boys are back. Roll on.
Steve.
Good to hear that Dave is still working with the antique motors.
The reproductions from Hiawatha are little pricey for me. Fenders don’t have to be exact… just the curve in the braces needs to be the same. I may put a watch on ebay fender ornaments to see if one comes up that is affordable. The fenders would look fine without them, too.
I found the single front fender and set it on the wheel for an approximation of what it would look like. (Minus the fender ornament which is put away for safe keeping.). Found the headlights, too. You had made support arms for them, probably cutoffs from a handlebar. Later today I’ll go out to the garage to look for bolts for the frame and zip ties so I can stand the headlights up for another approximation of what things will look like.
When we make the fender braces I was thinking that we could make attachment points to rivet them to with the same idea we had for the recumbent trikes…
Drill a hole the diameter of the axle in the center of a doubled up (two together for additional strength) canning jar lid. Then rivet the braces to the lid and do the same on both sides of the wheel. Should be plenty strong enough to anchor the fenders.
I never changed over the larger light bulbs to LEDs in the headlights and will need to look at another one to remember how I did that.
Was orignally planning to drive out to the lake cabin to retrieve a wicker seat I bought years back thinking we could use it on the tri-car. You found a better one, but I thought this one sitting in place would help in visualizing how things will look. For inspiration, you know. But when I saw the temp report on the ipad when I got up it said -30 below at the time and I thought better about plugging in the engine heater on the Honda and then trudging through the snow at Eagles Nest to get the seat out of the shed. I may yet since the forecast predicts an optimistic +1 above later today, a regular heat wave. I’d wait for a better day, but it looks like the cold snap will continue for the foreseeable future and I’d like to see some wicker up front on the tri-car. That’s about it here in Frostbite Falls.
SB
The reproductions from Hiawatha are little pricey for me. Fenders don’t have to be exact… just the curve in the braces needs to be the same. I may put a watch on ebay fender ornaments to see if one comes up that is affordable. The fenders would look fine without them, too.
I found the single front fender and set it on the wheel for an approximation of what it would look like. (Minus the fender ornament which is put away for safe keeping.). Found the headlights, too. You had made support arms for them, probably cutoffs from a handlebar. Later today I’ll go out to the garage to look for bolts for the frame and zip ties so I can stand the headlights up for another approximation of what things will look like.
When we make the fender braces I was thinking that we could make attachment points to rivet them to with the same idea we had for the recumbent trikes…
Drill a hole the diameter of the axle in the center of a doubled up (two together for additional strength) canning jar lid. Then rivet the braces to the lid and do the same on both sides of the wheel. Should be plenty strong enough to anchor the fenders.
I never changed over the larger light bulbs to LEDs in the headlights and will need to look at another one to remember how I did that.
Was orignally planning to drive out to the lake cabin to retrieve a wicker seat I bought years back thinking we could use it on the tri-car. You found a better one, but I thought this one sitting in place would help in visualizing how things will look. For inspiration, you know. But when I saw the temp report on the ipad when I got up it said -30 below at the time and I thought better about plugging in the engine heater on the Honda and then trudging through the snow at Eagles Nest to get the seat out of the shed. I may yet since the forecast predicts an optimistic +1 above later today, a regular heat wave. I’d wait for a better day, but it looks like the cold snap will continue for the foreseeable future and I’d like to see some wicker up front on the tri-car. That’s about it here in Frostbite Falls.
SB
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Silver bear that fender looks a pretty darn good basis to work with.
Rick C.
Rick C.
I remember the headlight brackets now. We did use an old handlebar and when I look at them it takes me back to working on the bike the last time. There was a great deal of creative staring until you mentioned the handlebars as a candidate for headlight mounts. I think some where along the line you put one of the cheap small flashlights we bought at Harbour Freight into a headlight.
With a 18650 battery holder and a switch on the back somewhere and a cheap flashlight giving up its led bulb the would be functional. Maybe a short UBS cord with one end exposed for charging.
I'll comb through AliExpress to see if I can find the headlight bulbs in the headlights I have. They are really strong and like search light beams. I'll have to take one out on the deck after dark and see how many neighbours I can tick off shining it around to see what the beam range is.
I mounted the fender support to the top of the spindle on the Indian. Maybe a couple of them to stabilize the Hiawatha fender anchored to the same place. At least I have a reference point with the Indian to rely on.
The fender length will cut down a lot of guessing on my part and provide a better look. I'll draw up a blue print to preplan the strut curve. I will have enough tubing to do them but there won't be any extra so it has to exact the first time.
I feel guilty now about complaining that it was 38F when I went out to get the fenders and sit down in the garage to start making the bearing puller. Family and friends in Ontario like to send us photos of the latest suffering and my brother loves to send them back photos of the green grass and even more so when he's mowed it which will be about another three weeks.
It's like telling my kids when they were young that they had no idea how easy they had it. My generation had to walk though six or eight feet of shag carpet to change the TV channel then walk back again. I could imagine the number of times they mentally gave me the finger.
That all from the Wet Coast.
Summers coming.
Steve.
With a 18650 battery holder and a switch on the back somewhere and a cheap flashlight giving up its led bulb the would be functional. Maybe a short UBS cord with one end exposed for charging.
I'll comb through AliExpress to see if I can find the headlight bulbs in the headlights I have. They are really strong and like search light beams. I'll have to take one out on the deck after dark and see how many neighbours I can tick off shining it around to see what the beam range is.
I mounted the fender support to the top of the spindle on the Indian. Maybe a couple of them to stabilize the Hiawatha fender anchored to the same place. At least I have a reference point with the Indian to rely on.
The fender length will cut down a lot of guessing on my part and provide a better look. I'll draw up a blue print to preplan the strut curve. I will have enough tubing to do them but there won't be any extra so it has to exact the first time.
I feel guilty now about complaining that it was 38F when I went out to get the fenders and sit down in the garage to start making the bearing puller. Family and friends in Ontario like to send us photos of the latest suffering and my brother loves to send them back photos of the green grass and even more so when he's mowed it which will be about another three weeks.
It's like telling my kids when they were young that they had no idea how easy they had it. My generation had to walk though six or eight feet of shag carpet to change the TV channel then walk back again. I could imagine the number of times they mentally gave me the finger.
That all from the Wet Coast.
Summers coming.
Steve.
Steve, nice to find your post. Once it got to a balmy -4 I started the Honda without having to plug in the engine heater. Cold, but lovely in the forest. I studied animal tracks in the otherwise undisturbed snow and then slogged my way in to retrieve the wicker chair. I just now set it in place, zip tied the headlights and took a few pictures. I suppose nothing is quite where it should be, but it still gives a feel for what might be. The additions fill up the real estate nicely. It gives me more to stare at now and reason to feel hopeful.
I think I read somewhere that the engine produces 6 volts for lighting, but I don’t see from where and maybe it doesn’t. Not a big deal now that we have these fantastic little lithium batteries. Next time I’m at harbor freight I’ll see if they have those same flashlights I used for other lights. LED bulbs seem to have a range of voltage that produces a strong light. I hooked up just one cell to a modified headlight I made and it gave lots of light… which is kind of a moot point anyway since I turn in around 9:00, geezer bed time. Still, the lights would be handy in case of a total eclipse.
SB
I think I read somewhere that the engine produces 6 volts for lighting, but I don’t see from where and maybe it doesn’t. Not a big deal now that we have these fantastic little lithium batteries. Next time I’m at harbor freight I’ll see if they have those same flashlights I used for other lights. LED bulbs seem to have a range of voltage that produces a strong light. I hooked up just one cell to a modified headlight I made and it gave lots of light… which is kind of a moot point anyway since I turn in around 9:00, geezer bed time. Still, the lights would be handy in case of a total eclipse.
SB
He you guys done any CG calculations? Just wondering what attitude the bike will take with a passenger seated and the rider dismounts. I'm seeing lest than 50% of the seat pan over the axel.
Tom
Tom
Just following the bikes that were built. I would imagine that they planned for the rider to remained seated until the passenger got off or on.
Steve.
Steve.
How about silver bear tracing the fender mounts and fold it up and send it to you, just a thought.........Curt
Only minus four? Part of me misses those days and the rest of me Is glad they are here complaining about the rain and it being 46F. The animal track were always the best part of the walk. You could see where a rodent or rabbit was making it's way along until an owl or fox came along. The drama was spelled out on the snow.
The lights are more for safety any more. If something did happen there would be a lawyer claiming it was your fault because their client couldn't see you without headlights at noon. Bike looks good with the chair on it. I can see the seat in the trailer sitting there. It will look as grand as I thought it would when I built it.
I have an idea for the lights and fender mounts all in one. When I'm in the garage tomorrow I'll try it out. I'm thinking that running wires from the lights to a common battery box under the front seat. That way they can be taken out and charged.
Didn't take long for this to get started again did it. Even drove an old man out into the bitter cold to get a wicker chair out in the woods.
Steve.
The lights are more for safety any more. If something did happen there would be a lawyer claiming it was your fault because their client couldn't see you without headlights at noon. Bike looks good with the chair on it. I can see the seat in the trailer sitting there. It will look as grand as I thought it would when I built it.
I have an idea for the lights and fender mounts all in one. When I'm in the garage tomorrow I'll try it out. I'm thinking that running wires from the lights to a common battery box under the front seat. That way they can be taken out and charged.
Didn't take long for this to get started again did it. Even drove an old man out into the bitter cold to get a wicker chair out in the woods.
Steve.
I'd thought of that as well, Curt. Hopefully by the time it got here I'll give bending them a try. I'll round up the tubing tomorrow and see what I have. Covid is running wild here and I don't go out at all unless I have to. I really need to make a run to the metal supply but at what cost.
Steve.
Steve.
I looked on eBay for a fender ornament. Just this new one for only $96,00 plus another $10.00 to ship it. I think I’ll pass. Fenders will look just fine without ornaments… keep it simple. No one can say what we do isn’t original. This one is the original.
What measurements on the fender do you want? End to end following the curve at the top of the fender? Straight across end to end? In my view the length of the fender is up to us. If the struts curve is close to that of the rear fender struts the eye will make them a set. We’re not limited to anything but what we think looks right. And if we like them that’s all that matters.
Regarding the disc brakes, did we ever buy calipers? I don’t remember and haven’t run across any. I’d say mechanical instead of hydraulic. The rear brake is a Bendix coaster brake which I think is entirely adequate. I’ve always had good luck with Bendix brakes. Main stopping will be from the front disc brakes.
Just realized the bike in the avatar is the works man frame we used on the Hiawatha before the frame was modified to make room for the engine. Nice solid frame. So really the only thing on the bike that is Hiawatha are the fenders and two of the three we will have made.
SB
What measurements on the fender do you want? End to end following the curve at the top of the fender? Straight across end to end? In my view the length of the fender is up to us. If the struts curve is close to that of the rear fender struts the eye will make them a set. We’re not limited to anything but what we think looks right. And if we like them that’s all that matters.
Regarding the disc brakes, did we ever buy calipers? I don’t remember and haven’t run across any. I’d say mechanical instead of hydraulic. The rear brake is a Bendix coaster brake which I think is entirely adequate. I’ve always had good luck with Bendix brakes. Main stopping will be from the front disc brakes.
Just realized the bike in the avatar is the works man frame we used on the Hiawatha before the frame was modified to make room for the engine. Nice solid frame. So really the only thing on the bike that is Hiawatha are the fenders and two of the three we will have made.
SB