Bike builders that have machine tools/shops

Discussion in 'The Tavern' started by Tom from Rubicon, May 19, 2019.

  1. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    I never fold, ride everyday year round. Ice or winds over fifty and hard rain are the only weather events that keep me off two wheels, I suit up for cold which max here is typically not worse than 15 degrees below zero wind chill...so definitely not what you guys in the frozen states face and endure. Snow used to keep me in but now the fat tire pug ugly electric is available on snow days.

    I like to build but love to ride!

    Rick C.
     
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  2. EZL

    EZL Well-Known Member

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    The "fat tire pug ugly electric" LOLs. Nice ride I bet? The idea of the fat tires I was interested in but the bike frames
    didn't want to accommodate a bigger engine except for the 2-strokes. This windy weather with rain and a big chill
    factor is no fun to ride in here. I usually put things on the backburner when the weather goes to heck. Got to get
    going to see if we are going to do anything today, rain in the forecast. :(
    Dennis
     
  3. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Dennis most of the "common" frames for fat tires are difficult for fitting even 2 stokes on, but that's just a good reason to chop a frame and build it better. A 212cc version "Pug ugly II" fat tire bike seems a reasonable project for winter climes.

    Rick C.
     
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  4. EZL

    EZL Well-Known Member

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    :D Custom frames is the only way! The catch is, are there mag wheels available and I haven't checked but that would
    be a good choice. A fella could go with tubeless tires and it would have a good smooth ride. These bicycle frames
    weren't made for a engine like that. I haven't had problems on my frame yet, "knock-on-wood!" My problem during
    the winter is that I don't have a good shop to work in with the good equipment to fabricate things here and don't
    want to add a garage on rental property. This place gave a relative of mine fits trying to do mechanical and fabricating
    work here and that's why he did his work over at my Dad's shop who had plenty of space and machine tools.

    Another question is, are there decent frames available for such builds? I did see where a fella made the rims on
    the fat tire bikes tubeless but that darn small spindle will not handle 212cc torque for very long.
    Dennis
     
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  5. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Dennis I'm really not a fan of mag wheels or tubeless, but not a hater, I just prefer classic spokes and tubes. The answer to wheels & tires that hold up is to switch to moped hubs, wheels (17" to 20") & brakes and mount speed rated moped tires.

    I used 1" DOM heavy wall tube to build my Simplex frame and I'd say 600 lbs. of load weight wouldn't phase it on top of it's 190 lb. wet weight.

    Pat sells DOM frames at Sportsman Flyer that are motorcycle versions of the drop loop bike frame. He runs 212cc Predators that put out 22 plus hp and hold Bonneville records so I'd say they're proven. He has a street version frame for "normal" 212 Predator riders as well.

    Frames purchased on the cheap just have to be what they are... cheap. Add plates, tube inserts and gussets while strengthening drop outs and running heavy duty forks. Even then expect frame cracks over time with lots of miles and hard usage. The torque of the 212 isn't that great it's just a lot more than 95% of all bike frames were designed to handle. They are designed as pedal bikes not for motor power.

    The Felt frames are often used with the 212 Predator engine and seem to hold up well, they aren't inexpensive either, but make beautiful moto bikes.

    A small motorcycle frame can be converted for use, but then it's pure motorcycle and easily seen as just that (not a pedal bike) by all who might protest or fine.

    Building dependable bikes that function well and really hold up using heavier and more powerful motors is just an expensive and time consuming activity...no getting around it. If you plan on riding a lot on the big motor bikes expect to spend a lot. Those who just look at what they build and get them out a few times a year needn't concern themselves greatly with the details of quality construction...just make 'em pretty!

    Not throwing shade just stating the realities.


    Rick C. .
     
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  6. curtisfox

    curtisfox Well-Known Member

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    Agree! But also think Worksman sells a drop loop frame..........Curt
     
  7. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Yes and a good frame but really small for a big engine.
     
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  8. curtisfox

    curtisfox Well-Known Member

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    LOL i don't do big engine, but ya could be as not any bigger then stock bike, of old that were made the same.............Curt
     
  9. EZL

    EZL Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Rick, I need to check on some of those frames. I've watched a fella building on a mountain bike which really
    looked interesting. The link:


    Then there is this fella that built his bike using Big Tires that I'm sure the law would notice !:D


    There are some funny ideas that can be built on.
    Dennis
     
    #549 EZL, Oct 22, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  10. EZL

    EZL Well-Known Member

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    Big ole heavy frame, fat tire, single speed pedal bikes I remember them! :)

    I got to get going and thought I'd drop in for a few talk at you fellas later...
    Dennis
     
  11. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    Dennis, everything Rick stated in #545 is 100% spot on.
    And Pat Dolan's drop loop bicycle frames he limits to 160cc = 5hp. His out of the box 212cc engines are mounted in frames of 1/8" wall DOM tubing with lugged and brazed connections, and use moped wheels and brakes. And he rightly terms a 212cc a motorcycle to California rule which rates any two wheeler at and above 150cc motorcycles. Honestly, what I have invested in my Flyer build at 2/3rds ready made. I could have bought a smaller safer motorcycle.
    This is Pat's 212.
    https://sportsmanflyer.com/shop/motorcycles/sportsman-200/
    See what Rick and I are talking about?
    A motorized bicycle fitting most state statutes can not exceed 49cc or 30mph on the flat. My Huffy pretty much fills those requirements. I am skating on thin ice with the Flyer. My only hope is ignorance or approval by the local constables. In town speed control was easy with my Huffy as I had an odometer. The springer fork of my Flyer I have to some up with something else like GPS or Hall Effect sensor that I have but hate to mount.
    I'm sure harvest has got you busy Dennis. Post when you can.
    Tom
     
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  12. EZL

    EZL Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't take long to get a budget way out of wack with the builds! Real easy to get $1500 tied up quick with the addons
    and parts. I know I wouldn't do another build on a bicycle unless it was a small 49cc build. The 79cc builds can add up
    real quick too. I've seen a lot of complaints coming down YouTube on the Phatmoto bike in the build quality and they
    might be growing pains trying to keep up with the demand by consumers. The biggest problems were with the welds
    and even frame showing breaks. The fellas have been ordering them off of Walmart of all places since they have a
    good return policy. The Phatmoto bike has a aluminum frame and really shouldn't be used off road. One fella found
    a crack in the frame and said he's getting a replacement and even was thinking about ordering two more! The price
    on the Phatmoto is not out-of-line considering what you are getting. Some of the bicycles, less engine, are upwards
    to $400+ versus the Phatmoto at $699. Once the company gets the quality control worked out the price and demand
    will climb.

    I can't get over the prices on the electric bikes! The drawback on them is the battery technology isn't there yet. That's
    just a matter of time with the concentration being made in new battery storage designs. The fella that build the
    mountain bike hasn't got it completed yet and it will be interesting to see what it does for him.
    Dennis
     
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  13. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Dennis the real issue with bike frames isn't steel vs. aluminum as both are fine building materials. The problem is in the quality of the material, excellence of design and skill/quality control of the welder, assembler and inspection. Phatmoto bike frames are Felt knockoffs & it's just one of many copies that are poorly made. There are Grubee imitations and Sportsman Flyer knockoffs as well. These copies won't hold up as pedal bikes let alone a motorized bikes. They are inexpensive and I understand that many folks can't afford quality, but expect that these bikes won't hold up over the long haul when used hard they won't last much past the short haul. If you have a cheap bike baby it and keep it on good, smooth road surfaces at low speed and if you don't ride it everyday, maintain it well, it may last a few years.

    Good batteries are the same...expensive at this time but 1000 + charges makes them quite affordable over the long haul & maintaining one is next to nothing compared to a gas bike. Build them and ride them, they really are amazingly easy to live with as true daily transportation, fiddle free...just remember to plug them in occasionally for pennies per recharge.

    I like gas cause I'm a gearhead, but the electrics are already good now.

    Rick C.
     
    #553 indian22, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  14. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    Only thing I did besides split kindling was pull the Brookes 190 from the Flyer to rethink the pitch control of the saddle mount. Weather here today, I should have been riding weather was very mild.
    Tom
     
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  15. EZL

    EZL Well-Known Member

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    The weather here was pretty mild too just about 60 degrees and sun. I remounted that 20-tooth sprocket on the bike
    to see how the newer drive belt works. I noticed just a little bit of slippage and a noticeable difference in takeoff speed.
    I am thinking that the gear is too high and causes the belt to slip which is actually messing up acceleration and
    letting it to top out on the CVT. I guess the CVT probably has run it's limit with the belt slippage on the drive pulley.
    The old original belt slipped really bad and the newer belt from GoPowerSports is a better quality belt and even
    so it would slip on the pulley. The gear gave a good cruise speed and there was plenty of torque for takeoff but
    I didn't want to hammer the throttle with the way it responded. I can say it's amazing how much difference there
    is with low-end torque and high speed performance on a CVT. GoPowerSports has a performance CVT which
    is better than the stock one sold by GasBike. The stock belt sent with the CVT from GasBike is junk and will
    stretch on you. The GoPowerSports belt is better quality and GasBike is now selling them as replacement belts
    for that transmission.

    I am going back to the taller gear and I want to check into the Lifan engine/trans since I want to be able to pull
    a trailer and it would be better with a multi-speed transmission on the bike for pulling a trailer. A trailer is a must
    for going fishing next summer or getting lawn tractor gas. I want to get the weight off of the bike frame and the
    3-gallons of gas is not good for it, not even the smell of in the trunk of a car. I've got all Winter to contemplate
    what I'm going to do with the bike and this darn Winter is in the way.
    Dennis
     
  16. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Seasons. Watcha' 'gona do?

    Rick C.
     
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  17. Tom from Rubicon

    Tom from Rubicon Well-Known Member

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    2" of the white stuff 10/29/19 AM, stuck on the grass and trees for awhile.
    Tom
     
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  18. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Glad I'm next to the fire. Ice storm today and tonight. I'm certainly glad I'm not still on the road!

    Rick C.
     
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  19. EZL

    EZL Well-Known Member

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    Got your messages. :rolleyes: Here we go on the start of Winter! :mad: So far we are getting just rain but the
    temps are close to 32 degrees which means ice. There is snow predicted for the next few days so there
    won't be no bicycling in this kind of weather. I took a ride the day before and went into town and it
    was chilly I couldn't believe the number of fields of beans and corn that are still standing! Some of these
    farmers are in trouble if they don't have crop insurance on these fields especially the bean fields. The
    corn can be combined in the snow but the beans will be a loss.

    I still haven't decided what I'm going to do on the bike, stay with the 212cc or go with a Lifan setup?
    I can't afford a change for a few months anyway. Got a lot of other things that are pressing right
    now.
    Dennis
     
  20. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Dennis a pity about the beans still in the field. We still have feed grain to combine and cotton is just starting to come into the gins...this goes on till January at least, though often longer. Cattle on winter wheat everywhere I rode by the thousands agriculture here is 12 months and no breaks though many breakdowns!

    I like both engines, but the transmission engines are game changers and when rode responsibly really easy on frames. I prefer the Lifan over a CVT driven 212 as an everyday rider, but the horizontal engine poses some of it's own mounting concerns.

    Rick C.
     

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