1912 Excelsior Tribute

[indian22]

Ditto Pete. Mags I love it when an experienced builder has the balls to make substantial changes to an already beautiful bike. Props!

Going to discs on a classic style build is a hard decision to make the first time 'round, but really necessary on the heavy classic bikes with powerful motors, unless you don't intend to ride them or else go so slow that kids on training wheels pass you.

Wheels, tires and bars are considered by most builders, it appears to me, to be chosen for best price. You don't fall into that category because it's obvious that you spent a good deal of effort to set these up right from the get go, but now see alternatives that will and do make a difference. Money and time spent to suit your purpose and I would add that I too see the benefits. Inverted controls and belt drive aren't easy component swaps either. I could go on but it all adds up to the same thing; I like and appreciate the efforts involved for you to redo the X bike.

Rick C.

 

[MotoMagz]

Well parts arrived for disc brake / wheel conversion. Rotors look horrible so....
Not going to do it !
Got some thinking to do. I am accepting all ideas for alternative drum brakes.. I may go back to 90mm Sturmey drums front and rear. As they work better than Worksman but look not so vintage.

 

[Tony01]

Well parts arrived for disc brake / wheel conversion. Rotors look horrible so....
Not going to do it !
Got some thinking to do. I am accepting all ideas for alternative drum brakes.. I may go back to 90mm Sturmey drums front and rear. As they work better than Worksman but look not so vintage.

Man that bike looks great. Yea the rotors do look horrible. I’m used to the drum look myself now having a 110mm drum on the front. It’s a strong brake, came off a ‘69 Yamaha dirt bike. Pads are at least a quarter inch wider than the sturmeh archer ones. Sadly you can’t really find the drums with brake plates complete on eBay. If I had to do this again I’d go to a motorcycle junkyard and cut a drum out of an old wheel.

 

[indian22]

Well parts arrived for disc brake / wheel conversion. Rotors look horrible so....
Not going to do it !
Got some thinking to do. I am accepting all ideas for alternative drum brakes.. I may go back to 90mm Sturmey drums front and rear. As they work better than Worksman but look not so vintage.

I admire you for sticking with the look and I agree the Sturmey has decent stopping power especially when when run on both front and rear. I don't think the rotors look bad on your bike, but no way do they look classic. It would be quite difficult to make your X look anything but eX-cellent, but a guys got to suit himself or why go to the trouble of building these things.

You're a mature rider so I think you know how to ride well within the brakes limitations.

Love your X bike.

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Shame. Good ideas on paper often end up sucking in the flesh. Welcome to the club. I've a box full of parts from builds that I've discarded after they didn't fit my plans. And every now and again I need a bigger box...

 

[MotoMagz]

Thank everyone.. l was looking at some motorcycle hubs like Tony mentioned.Parts and more parts.. my habit has been on wheels for a few builds now.I do ride mellow.. but always worry about the lack of sudden braking..

 

[indian22]

Man that bike looks great. Yea the rotors do look horrible. I’m used to the drum look myself now having a 110mm drum on the front. It’s a strong brake, came off a ‘69 Yamaha dirt bike. Pads are at least a quarter inch wider than the sturmeh archer ones. Sadly you can’t really find the drums with brake plates complete on eBay. If I had to do this again I’d go to a motorcycle junkyard and cut a drum out of an old wheel.

I guess the parts are worth more sold separately Tony. Moped brakes work well but they are pretty hard to source usable ones too. Good salvage yards get picked over constantly and complete bikes can be purchased from individuals for scrap metal pricing or just haul off. I've got a straight 21" front that's complete with brakes that was sitting in a trash bin next to the road for haul off wire wheel with really good chrome, but a rear has thus far alluded me.

Rick C.

 

[Tony01]

You could probably buy the entire wheel cheaper. Old drums usually have old rims, spokes, and tires attached to them which are cheaper to ship than spend time on. I bought a moto wheel for the spokes once. Around $37 shipped... got a 125mm drum with a broken brake plate and no shoes.. threw it out.

 

[MotoMagz]

Thanks guys! So when mounting a motorcycle drum brake arm to fork will I need to get something welded to support arm or a clap ? Which I doubt.

 

[Velodrome]

You could try a hinged P Clamp of the appropriate diameter https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor.../stainless-steel-p-clamp-for-bar-mounts/1418/ I used em on my electric build with S/A 90mm drum. Might ask Dan about moped hub and drum that might do the job.

 

[Tony01]

You just need to weld in a tab on your fork for the reaction slot on the hub. Moped drum forks already have this tab.

Also going this route you are moving up to a solid thru axle which is so much easier to deal with. Wheel removal is so easy. Remove axle and wheel comes right out. No pesky brake reaction arms to deal with.

 

[MotoMagz]

Hey guys I have a great line on complete wheels $10 but have to wait to go get them as we are still restricted till May 28th. I want to be able to measure the hub to see what’s workable.
Thanks Velo I have those P clamps in my bookmarks!
Gotcha on the tab Tony ... I had some K10 forks before with the tab your talking about. I do like the slide thru axles.. and have used them on a worksman front wheels before.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

I'm quite happy with my Sturmey an being a motorcyclist the front brake always gets used first.
Tom

 

[indian22]

I'm quite happy with my Sturmey an being a motorcyclist the front brake always gets used first.
Tom

A suit that fits gets worn. It only has to suit you.

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

I'll second that. S/A front drum hubs suit me and most of my builds. Just snagged three more recently from a guy here in the UK who listed ten unused 90mm S/A front hubs individually as no reserve eBay auctions. Most I paid for one was 35 UK pounds sterling. Got the other two for 28 quid each. Usually listed for upwards of three times that. I just find it strange that folks listing a pair of new replacement shoes for these want more than I paid for the complete hub brake.
Mags, I appreciate the fact your Taylar derived build has a lot more power on tap than my builds - so wanting more braking capacity and looking to explore moped drum brakes is understandable. That said, I just recently had the drum brake shoes on my vintage 65cc Guzzino relined by Villiers Services here in the UK and I don't reckon the front brake can hold a candle to my preferred S/A brake hubs. Maybe after they've had a chance to bed in...

 

[indian22]

I'll second that. S/A front drum hubs suit me and most of my builds. Just snagged three more recently from a guy here in the UK who listed ten unused 90mm S/A front hubs individually as no reserve eBay auctions. Most I paid for one was 35 UK pounds sterling. Got the other two for 28 quid each. Usually listed for upwards of three times that. I just find it strange that folks listing a pair of new replacement shoes for these want more than I paid for the complete hub brake.
Mags, I appreciate the fact your Taylar derived build has a lot more power on tap than my builds - so wanting more braking capacity and looking to explore moped drum brakes is understandable. That said, I just recently had the drum brake shoes on my vintage 65cc Guzzino relined by Villiers Services here in the UK and I don't reckon the front brake can hold a candle to my preferred S/A brake hubs. Maybe after they've had a chance to bed in...

Pete I hope the rebuilt drums end up performing great, but I rode quite a variety of mopeds and scooters during the fifties and sixties, when they were new or lightly used and the brakes were weak and the small motorcycles of the sixties not a lot better. The drums on full size Japanese and Brit bikes worked quite well. I agree with your evaluation of the S/A drum.
I do, however, give a strong nod in favor of moped and small motorcycle hub use. This is due to the hubs body strength, a hub driven sprocket design (the rear), axle strength and quality hub bearings. When laced using quality rim and spokes these are superior for higher sustained speed cruising and durability.

Nice snag on the S/A front hubs.

Rick C.

 

[Tony01]

Speeds and feeds guys. Push a heavier bike faster and you’ll need to build to spec. SA drums are spec’d for non motor use.. they are great for many applications however.

 

[sportscarpat]

Hi guys,
I have been through a lot of the Worksman hubs. Very tough but not the best performers. They are essentially an Atom design. Picked up a real nice set of original wheels off a Lawwill Pro Cruiser which is a vintage mountain bike made by Mert Lawwill the flat track guy. Anyway, the wheels had a perfect set of original Atom hubs the have the exact same drum body as the Worksman, but use a different backing plate and work VERY well. I have long suspected the problem with lack of performance in the Worksman version is the rather long and flexible lever arm the connects to the brake cable. Cable stretch is also an issue so use fatter motorcycle cables and bicycle cables. Better cables and maybe a true atom backing plate or beefed up Worksman lever arm should help. Finally, regardless of looks I much prefer the disc brakes now. Like anything new on your bike you just have to get used to looking at it.

 

[PeteMcP]

What I will add to this topic is a rear disc brake, visually, is far easier to live with on a trad build. Having just fitted my first ever disc brake to the rear of my current build, I'm a convert. Hardly noticeable apart from the caliper. Different story up front - especially so with twin disc set-ups. Consider the front drum, rear disc combo.
Fact is though, for most, safety wins over looks. Like Rick said earlier, ride safe within the limits of your brakes if opting to stick with the front drum. Your Excelsior is the definition of a Gentleman's Conveyance and an outstanding one at that. I'm just not seeing you burning up highways breaking speed limits.

 

[MotoMagz]

Hey Pete.. I was leaning toward rear only, but! With my rear sheave and a 205mm disc your eye goes right to the rear wheel. With out the sheave yes.So Im going to try the Worksman set up with a few different levers,so I can ride!
I just cruiser the Subdivision at low speeds so if I can get t to stop I will be good for rides. May 28th and my stay at home order is over. I’ll be looking at a Motorcycle front drum hubs. Rear wheel will stay as is.