100:1 Mix

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Retmachinist, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    i think about running out of gas somewhere and having to pedal into home depot for their lousy oil in an emergency, and hope it works. i had to do that once with my first engine, and it ran like crap all the way home till i dumped it out.

    despite that, i'm still sold on opti2. if i plan any extended trips, one little ten ounce bottle will get me ten gallons, or about 800 to 1000 miles. a couple bottles in a backpack and i could go to your house.

    it's been around for 30 years. i called and Brad found me 5 shops withing a 10 mile radius of my house that carried it (the closest is three miles), and he told me they're getting it on the shelves at ACE hardware. the ACE by my house doesn't have it, though, i'll have to start bugging them. there's a hot chick that works there anyway, so i go in there 4 or 5 times a week...
     
  2. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    o.o

    well then? *waits w/a frosty cold beverage* ;)


    You've a good point bairdco... tho up here in the frozen wastelands I've not been able to find opti as of yet anyway and that's part of what makes me uneasy (I've still two more places to try however). I suppose If I do find it locally I'll not be able to resist... but if I don't I'm not going to go to any lengths to order it.

    Murphy loves situations like this heh
     
  3. silverbear

    silverbear The Boy Who Never Grew Up

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    One more little wrinkle in this to think about. When I switched over to Opti-2 last summer I used it exclusively on a couple of new engines and also on one which had a thousand or so miles on it. No problems at all and I'm sold on the stuff. On that old engine I had used a synthetic exclusively from day one, Amsoil Sabre Professional which is rated at 100-1 and which I used at 50-1 and later 75-1. Others have stated that using a synthetic from the start doesn't allow the rings to seat properly, so maybe what is going on with you guys has to do with that somehow. Anyway, Barely, if you use Opti 2 on your new motor and run out I suspect that a synthetic substitute wouldn't hurt anything. I bought mine on line and had it shipped back in the boonies of northern Minnesota where even Amsoil was kind of hard to find, let alone Opti-2. "Huh, whazzat? Never heard ovit, Bud". It would be nice if all Ace outlets carried it. I run the Opti 2 at the recommended 100-1. I did run out of the opti-2 in the fall and while waiting for the replacement order to come used Amsoil with no negative effect.
    SB
     
  4. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Silver B.,
    My oldest engine, the high milage one that doesn't like Opti, was broken in on Valvoline 2 stroke oil and accrued most of its milage on it. I later switched to Stihl 2 stroke oil but it was not broken in on a synthetic. I too swear by Opti and wouldn't use anything else, except in that one engine. I've heard the rings-don't-seat theory too and I could agree but why then does the engine regain its power when I switch back to regular 2 stroke oil? Too slick? Too thin? Your guess is as good as mine on that.
    As for the ignition theory, I agree with Bairdco again. Oil would have nothing to do with it and I did try different plugs, even switched carburetors but it had no effect. That engine just does not like Opti-2 so I don't force to use it. There has to be some connection with rings/compression but for the life of me I can't see it. Oh, and yes I've done a compression test on that engine with Opti-2 and my regular oil...no difference.
    I'm going to try the Opti-4 in my Titan. I don't expect any significant difference but if it works as well in a 4 stroke as it does my other 2 strokes I'll be happy.
    Tom
     
  5. flybytaco

    flybytaco Metal Molding Madman

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    wow all this reading has literally made my eyes water lol seems when you mix opti it's almost like running straight gas. when you have a motor running at 40:1 and change your mixture to 100:1 you just toatally changed thr jetting. a simple rule is the more oil you add the bigger you go on main the less oil you go smaller. I have been running sabre at 70 to 1 and am def gonna try 100 next time i get fuel. every time i tear down a 70:1 motor its got lots of oil at bottom of crankcase it's def not lacking oil
     
  6. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Never changed jetting on three other engines and they run fine. Its not jetting.
    Tom
     
  7. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    i broke that motor in on valvoline oil, too. maybe that's the connection? sounds weird, but possible. maybe the two oils just don't get along.

    as far as silver bear's compatibility with amsoil, that makes sense, because they seem to be pretty similar, high quality oils.

    i also want to say i mighta been pretty harsh comparing the CDI with innertubes, and i didn't (really) mean it as a dig towards exavid, it's just that a lot of mis-information gets spread around here, and i've never been the type to just switch out parts like a car dealer till i find something that works (usually temporarily,) at the cost of replacing perfectly good parts.

    i dunno how many threads i've read where someone's "solution" has nothing to do with the problem. or instead of following basic procedures, people buy new carbs, magnetos, etc, without finding the root of the problem.

    in my case, it's obviously a fuel problem, so i went step by step through the fuel system. the bike starts with almost no effort at all, so i knew it wasn't ignition.

    wasn't trying to be a jerk, just trying to keep it on track.
     
  8. Outrunner

    Outrunner New Member

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    Barely Awake stated;"It may seem schizophrenic of me lol, but I was seriously considering using opti in my newest build... but I can't guarantee opti's consistent availability, suppose I would go on an extended trip?"

    You can buy Opti-2 oil in little shirt pocket sizes that are the same size as a mustard or
    ketchup packet that is given to you at a drive thru window.The Opti-2 packet is just the
    right size for a US gallon of gas which will equal 73:1 ratio. You can easily carry several
    of these packets with you on a long trip and just tear off the top and squeeze it into your container.
     
  9. exavid

    exavid New Member

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    It might be a waste of time but how long does it take to swap a CDI unit? At least it would eliminate one possibility. Obviously there's something different about that one engine if you have others of the same make that aren't affected by the difference in oil.
     
  10. Steve M

    Steve M New Member

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    I purchased Oregon Only One 2 cycle oil at Do It Best Hardware in Indiana it came in a 1.8 ketchup kinda pouch.
    2 Cycle Engine Oil Opti l & ll By Oregon
    I called Opti 2 and he said it was the same. I am going to use it in my 66cc motor as soon as it warms up and get it completed.
    If you can't find Opti 2 look for the Oregon oil.
    .shft.
    Steve M.
     
  11. Wood.Neely

    Wood.Neely New Member

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    i just read through way to much of this thread and gave myself one **** of a headache, BUT having read all of this, i now wonder about the 25:1 mixture my instruction manual told me to use after i broke in the engine... i have been riding for about a week, and gone through a gallon and a half of fuel at 16:1 and now am ready to switch... lets be honest, i am a beginner to the whole engine thing but learning as much as i can as i go along... should i man-up and use 50:1 or should i stick to what the chinese instruction manual says. seems like 50:1 is consistently working for folks, but who knows....i'm dropping the opti2 conversation for a second to find a good ratio... anyway i'm all ears to any advice

    happy ridin'
     
  12. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    Opti2 is designed to run at 100:1. if you try that with regular cheap oil, you'll destroy your motor.

    i run 32:1 with valvoline from autozone (the cheap stuff.)
     
  13. Wood.Neely

    Wood.Neely New Member

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    ahh perfect... what about the mixes that SUPPOSEDLY work for all different ratio's. would something like that be a good idea for these motors?
     
  14. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    these motors were designed to run on 16:1, 30 weight motor oil.

    they'll pretty much run on anything, it's just a matter of how well.
     
  15. Earthman

    Earthman New Member

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    My theory: The piston/cylinder wall wear in the older “high mileage” engine is such that it needs the 32:1 mix of regular 2-cycle oil to seal the gap so you get enough compression for the engine to run (this is probably normal for an engine that lived on such oil). When you try to run the 100:1 mix of Opti in it, there isn’t enough oil in the mix to seal the gap so you don’t have enough compression for the engine to run. Opti oil lubricates differently and the piston/cylinder wall wear is different – it results in a gap with closer tolerance. An engine broken in with Opti will work fine, but if you switch to it in an engine with regular oil wear, there isn’t enough of an oil seal with the Opti to get the compression you need. This may show up if you do compression tests on the engine using the two different mixes. Another way to test would be to put the Opti mix in, but take out the spark plug and squirt a little 2-cycle oil into the cylinder (enough to coat the cylinder walls and piston) then start the engine. If it runs for a few seconds, then quits, it’s probably because the oil film wore off and you lost the compression.

    Run the regular 2-cycle oil in the bike and enjoy it.

    Why do I think the above? I read all the other posts on this site about Opti II, and read the stuff on the manufacturer’s web site so I know how the Opti II works. In addition, I had a relatively low-time 2-cycle leaf blower that I inadvertently put straight gas in to. It started right up and ran for about 5 min. then quit. I’m sure the piston walls were scored due to a lack of lubrication. It would not start unless I put a little oil in the cylinder. Then it would start, run fine for a few seconds and quit. Lesson learned.
     
  16. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Earthman,
    Your theory has merit in that an engine broken in and run for high milage on regular 2 stroke oil might have wider tolerances and therefore the 'thinner' Opti-2 does not allow for the same level of sealing that the heavier oil mix did. As I stated, I did compression tests comparing both oils and saw no difference but as most of us know sticking a compression guage into the plug hole and cranking the engine over by hand is not the same as real world running conditions. Add some heat, dwell time and load and the guage might tell a different story. There's really no effective (cost effective) way to do a comprehensive compression test with an engine running. I strongly suspect that if so we'd see a dramatic difference in the results.
    Whatever, I'll maintain that the Opti-2 when used from first start to whenever, is the way to go with these little Chinese motors. My three that have been run that way are the evidence that has convinced me.
    Tom
     
  17. NEAT TIMES

    NEAT TIMES New Member

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    For Yrs The Concensus Of Opinion Was To Break In Motors With Reg Oil So The Rings Would Seat. Now Someone Posted That New Cars Come With Synthetic Oil In The Motors. I Put Royal Purple 10w-30 Synthetic Oil In My Titan 4 Stroke (almost $10 A Qt) At The Start, Last Summer And That Motor Amaze`s Me With It`s Torque. It Has Run Flawlessly. Have Always Read That A Motor Normally Runs On A Film Of Oil And Not Metal To Metal. If That Be The Case, Them Maybe Break In Oil Used Will Not Make A Diff Of Bitterance. Just Food For Thought. Imo Ron .cvlt1
     
  18. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    i agree with 2door. every engine i get from now on, i'll use opti2 exclusively, but my old motor's gonna stay on the crappy stuff till it dies a natural death.
     
  19. denali

    denali New Member

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    Ok,back from my Fla. trip and ran the bike everyday for a month with the opti from day one. It runs great, no smoke at all. I did not baby it. Ran flat out up to 34 mph. Took it to the beach and spent a lot of time with people asking all kinds of questions on thats a neat bike. Gotta get meone,lol. Pat
     
  20. jauguston

    jauguston New Member

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    I switched to Opti-2 after talking to a guy that works at our local hardware store that sells Opti-2. They have a large construction equipment rental yard as well. He said ten years ago they started sending out gas mixed with Opti-2 at 100-1 with every two stroke engine powered piece of equipment they rent. They have not had a oil attributed engine problem - not one. There is another big equipment rental place here locally and they switched to Opti-2 nine years ago. Again not one oil related engine problem.

    He explained the reason they switched was that every differend brand of equipment that had a two stroke on it had a different recommended gas-oil mix. In the rental yard business having different mixes for different equipment is just not practical. Now everything gets Opti-2 at 100-1. If engines in a equipment rental enviroment do well using it it is surely good enough for my HT.

    Opti-2 is made 15 miles from here and they have used some of the rental yard engines to track wear.

    Opti-2 was the one that ten years ago talked the rental yard manager into trying their stuff and it has been a success.

    Jim
     

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