Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike
- Thread starter indian22
- Start date
Please say you took photos Rick. Not the end of the world. Monark Super Frame "Five Bar" wasn't in my vocabulary until you wondered what it was. I was just interested in what appears to be a active suspension.
Tom from Rubicon
Tom from Rubicon
Hi Tom I did have a couple of photos that might help. I also was totally unaware of the five bar designation. though Schwinn carried the Super frame moniker over time, "five bar" description & construction was uniquely Monark. The frame in my photos doesn't have the rear twin suspension tubes, that being the regular seat stays plus an active pair of additional suspension tubes running parallel the length of the seat stays, though they may have been on the bike originally. More research to be done I suppose. My original guess of man. date was late '30's and it appears that the 5 bar Monark had a run of production from 1938 to 1941. Monark was a pioneer in building frames using aluminum but the 5 bars seem to have been all steel...really more research needed Tom. That twin rear suspension may have been an option but if you check it out was really unusual.
The dual leg frame suspension is of the single coil, horizontal "pencil spring" design, very simple plate rockers with axle mounted in the forward rocker position.
The saddle has "bell" type springs and Torrington #5 pedals.
I don't have a feel for the value of these bikes but if scarcity of information is any indicator these things could be treasures.
Rick C.
The dual leg frame suspension is of the single coil, horizontal "pencil spring" design, very simple plate rockers with axle mounted in the forward rocker position.
The saddle has "bell" type springs and Torrington #5 pedals.
I don't have a feel for the value of these bikes but if scarcity of information is any indicator these things could be treasures.
Rick C.
Something to add is that Monark re-badged the Hawthorne for Ward's and the roll fast badge as well....so the 1938 thru 1941 5 bar could have these badges as well. Also I forgot to add that the active rear suspension tubes were rolled in a continuous loop around the rear tire and doubled as a rear fender support location.
That horizontal bolt was the "pencil spring" support. The active rear suspension I mentioned was definitely an "option" for the Super frame 5 bars.
Best search results "Monark super frame 5 bar bicycle" Dave's vintage bikes is always a great resource and he features a 1940 Monark super frame 5 bar article with nice photos.
Hmmm wrong photos....
Rick C.
That horizontal bolt was the "pencil spring" support. The active rear suspension I mentioned was definitely an "option" for the Super frame 5 bars.
Best search results "Monark super frame 5 bar bicycle" Dave's vintage bikes is always a great resource and he features a 1940 Monark super frame 5 bar article with nice photos.
Hmmm wrong photos....
Rick C.
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5 bar update: It found a good home with a bike restorer as he impressed with ample currency. Might send photos when completed...
Classic electrics...Pat D. set a great example and high bar on his completions. Early style coupled with modern power. My " pug ugly" electric fat bike has me convinced that for my riding needs the electrics check all the boxes, but my spirit demands that my future volted mounts have vintage styling...other than my "custom" mountain bike which is getting a 500 watt 36 volt front hub and 15 amp lithium ion pack and my vintage Cannondale MB will get a rear hub eventually as well. Both these MB's are full suspension rides.
Motor/drive train thought. Electric mid drive coupled to CVT. I've a spare 2,000 watt motor, controller and CVT so some bench testing is in order....
Rick C.
Classic electrics...Pat D. set a great example and high bar on his completions. Early style coupled with modern power. My " pug ugly" electric fat bike has me convinced that for my riding needs the electrics check all the boxes, but my spirit demands that my future volted mounts have vintage styling...other than my "custom" mountain bike which is getting a 500 watt 36 volt front hub and 15 amp lithium ion pack and my vintage Cannondale MB will get a rear hub eventually as well. Both these MB's are full suspension rides.
Motor/drive train thought. Electric mid drive coupled to CVT. I've a spare 2,000 watt motor, controller and CVT so some bench testing is in order....
Rick C.
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Tom the model I had did not have the rear suspension option, but Dave's vintage bike's has some nicely restored versions of the 5 bar bikes as do others. The two tubes running parallel to the seat stays is the dead give away to the active rear suspension. Sorry I didn't get better shots before he picked the bikes up.
Rick C.
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I've two projects that have been on the back burner for sometime now and I'm getting back to the sidecar for my Simplex Copper gator: since my ADS episode distracted me with the electric bikes, mountain bike and fat tire bikes, that are both now being ridden. The sidecar is now my primary focus and I have a pretty clear picture of what that will look like.
The V twin build is the one that has me stymied. The problem I encountered is not finding a suitable V-twin to build a board track or flat track style bike around. I first thought a Virago V twin 250 cc/5 speed the answer, but after buying one of each, and a V twin Honda clone; later dismissing both due to size and appearance...they just didn't suit me. I've looked & not found a suitable motor though I've rejected plenty of decent candidates for much the same reason...didn't suit me. I really don't like to start something and not finish it; thus the stymie. Have I overlooked an obvious & available alternative? Power isn't really a problem as 5 hp is plenty for this one. Single speed or small 2 or 3 speed, transmission are also ok. Under 50 lbs. total engine weight & narrow frontal area are important to me as well.
I'd really like to build a twin, but won't waste time building something that doesn't suit me.
Rick C.
The V twin build is the one that has me stymied. The problem I encountered is not finding a suitable V-twin to build a board track or flat track style bike around. I first thought a Virago V twin 250 cc/5 speed the answer, but after buying one of each, and a V twin Honda clone; later dismissing both due to size and appearance...they just didn't suit me. I've looked & not found a suitable motor though I've rejected plenty of decent candidates for much the same reason...didn't suit me. I really don't like to start something and not finish it; thus the stymie. Have I overlooked an obvious & available alternative? Power isn't really a problem as 5 hp is plenty for this one. Single speed or small 2 or 3 speed, transmission are also ok. Under 50 lbs. total engine weight & narrow frontal area are important to me as well.
I'd really like to build a twin, but won't waste time building something that doesn't suit me.
Rick C.
These guys got your engine.
http://www.timelessmotorcompany.com/vtwin.html
Or.
What Co Bappe used was a horizontal shaft Briggs V.
https://www.cobappe.com/wheels#motorcycle-build.
Tom from Rubicon
http://www.timelessmotorcompany.com/vtwin.html
Or.
What Co Bappe used was a horizontal shaft Briggs V.
https://www.cobappe.com/wheels#motorcycle-build.
Tom from Rubicon
Heh, heh thanks Tom, I saw that "timeless" pop off your link & dismissed it before I clicked the familiar thread & thought $$$...lovely machine work though!
The second link name wasn't familiar, but the founder is a forum member & his Veskt V build thread is one I know pretty much by heart. It's a beauty as well, but it ends up a motorcycle, which is quite marvelous, but I'm looking for so much lighter with an extremely narrow frontal area. The Briggs with CVT is as big as the Honda V I first bought and later rejected and the 5 speed Virago 250. All 100lbs. plus with the plus being even heavier and bulkier! The Veskt bike with the Briggs is so artfully presented that the motor looks just about perfect in frame & photos give visual proof of the same, but during the months that I played with both engines I realized they aren't what I'm looking for. I'd like my completed twin moto cycle to weigh under 125 lbs. total which is 30 lbs. lighter than my Harley "pea shooter" & 50 lbs. lighter than my Simplex "Copper gator" both these can be pedaled in a pinch but you wouldn't want to.
Ultimately the Veskt Briggs and Daredevil's 250 cc Yamaha V thread are what prompted me to purchase the two V twins to mock up a design. Both have great merit and were used in super builds, but the more I played with them, the less enchanted I became with actually using them for a project. They are both too bulky and way too heavy for what I have in mind.
Everybody who's into vintage bikes seem to love a twin, but it seems that very few of us are willing to build and live with one. I build stuff but I really want practical bikes to ride daily, not just look at. My reality is that I normally climb on the lightweight bikes to go about my daily activities around town and save the others for occasional rides through the country side. I'd like to think I can build a V twin that could serve well doing both. If I can't then I won't.
My full size land cruiser motorcycles get stored and exist mainly to receive their 24 hr. trickle charge feeding...
Rick C.
The second link name wasn't familiar, but the founder is a forum member & his Veskt V build thread is one I know pretty much by heart. It's a beauty as well, but it ends up a motorcycle, which is quite marvelous, but I'm looking for so much lighter with an extremely narrow frontal area. The Briggs with CVT is as big as the Honda V I first bought and later rejected and the 5 speed Virago 250. All 100lbs. plus with the plus being even heavier and bulkier! The Veskt bike with the Briggs is so artfully presented that the motor looks just about perfect in frame & photos give visual proof of the same, but during the months that I played with both engines I realized they aren't what I'm looking for. I'd like my completed twin moto cycle to weigh under 125 lbs. total which is 30 lbs. lighter than my Harley "pea shooter" & 50 lbs. lighter than my Simplex "Copper gator" both these can be pedaled in a pinch but you wouldn't want to.
Ultimately the Veskt Briggs and Daredevil's 250 cc Yamaha V thread are what prompted me to purchase the two V twins to mock up a design. Both have great merit and were used in super builds, but the more I played with them, the less enchanted I became with actually using them for a project. They are both too bulky and way too heavy for what I have in mind.
Everybody who's into vintage bikes seem to love a twin, but it seems that very few of us are willing to build and live with one. I build stuff but I really want practical bikes to ride daily, not just look at. My reality is that I normally climb on the lightweight bikes to go about my daily activities around town and save the others for occasional rides through the country side. I'd like to think I can build a V twin that could serve well doing both. If I can't then I won't.
My full size land cruiser motorcycles get stored and exist mainly to receive their 24 hr. trickle charge feeding...
Rick C.
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http://www.model-engine-plans.com/engineplans/combustion/howellvtwin.htm?20,26
This is along the line of what you are going to have to work with Rick.
Tom from Rubicon
This is along the line of what you are going to have to work with Rick.
Tom from Rubicon
Howell V-Twin
The quality CAD generated and laser printed plans set consists of 41 sheets of drawings and 3 sheets of construction notes. The dude died. His kids sell his plans.
I got a .22cal Gatling set of plans comes first.
Tom from Rubicon
The quality CAD generated and laser printed plans set consists of 41 sheets of drawings and 3 sheets of construction notes. The dude died. His kids sell his plans.
I got a .22cal Gatling set of plans comes first.
Tom from Rubicon
I've seen the Gatling .22 rimfire demo at gun a show years ago...pretty awesome. The weapon carriage, caison, extra magazines and well researched accessories accompanied with the pertinent storage cases were what wowed me. It seems it was half scale. It would have been great if he had miniature mules to haul the whole affair.
I'll take a look at the Howell as well. Thanks!
Rick C.
I'll take a look at the Howell as well. Thanks!
Rick C.
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Both the electric mountain bike and the fat tire electric are 'kinda finished & I'm getting back to my original electric project which will be a reversible 1,800 watt 48 v. sidecar motor. I'm setting up a test board on which to mount the motor, controller and battery pack. 1.8 kw is probably too much motor for the purpose but it's what I've got at the moment to figure out the wiring and drive configuration, just proof of concept development at any rate.
Rick C.
Rick C.
All things considered I think I'll start designing a vintage style electric bike while I work on the Simplex sidecar. 1915 style, with about 200 manufacturers in and out of existence in the first thirty years of the 20th. century, that leaves a lot of leeway for a non existent bike company model such as my own "Wylder Electra Cycle, Co.".
Rick C.
Rick C.
The Simplex "Copper gator" is back after a long month of promotion work with an oil company agency and I'm concentrating on the basic bike to sidecar connections, while allowing relatively easy transforms between solo bike and rig configurations. Perhaps easier to do than I first imagined. Adjusting the car & bike tracking on each remount of the car will likely be a chore each time the rig is joined.
I plan on having no noticeable bracketry remaining on the bike after car is removed. The duplex frame design of the Simplex should make this possible.
Severe weather here this weak two tornados missed our small city within a half hour of one another Tuesday night. as close as one mile and the other three miles and 5 inches of rain fell as well. Indian Territory has some savage weather!
Rick C.
I plan on having no noticeable bracketry remaining on the bike after car is removed. The duplex frame design of the Simplex should make this possible.
Severe weather here this weak two tornados missed our small city within a half hour of one another Tuesday night. as close as one mile and the other three miles and 5 inches of rain fell as well. Indian Territory has some savage weather!
Rick C.
Simplex, Harley and Grubee board tracker work day, which will extend into next week it appears. Patina enhancement on all three, forks primarily right now, no paint just chemicals, patience and time.
The Grubee's getting an electric front hub to use as a starter and as a clutch saver for the 2 stroke from dead stops. It will also serve as a more pedestrian friendly mode of transport at fairs, festivals and car shows. Still pedals, but when complete it's a three way power all wheel powered bike.
Rick C.
The Grubee's getting an electric front hub to use as a starter and as a clutch saver for the 2 stroke from dead stops. It will also serve as a more pedestrian friendly mode of transport at fairs, festivals and car shows. Still pedals, but when complete it's a three way power all wheel powered bike.
Rick C.
Thanks Curtis this is the 500 watt hub, 36 volt lithium not here quite yet, but the Grubee's got room on the front downtube to mount the battery pack between bar and tire, high exhaust keeps heat away from the pack in this location , good air flow there. Controller should fit above battery but inside the frame triangle,,,have to juggled stuff a bit...
Rick C.
All the room I require so far on the electric hub conversion to the Grubee board track bike, CDI and coil moved motor controller installed inside the bikes V frame & most of the electrical cables shortened & soldered, in preparation for mounting the 36 v. battery pack Took a short ride yesterday under, first, pedal power and later adding fuel and it was fine (almost) the front brake needs some attention, but I couldn't tell that the ride or handling was changed at all, though pedaling was a little more difficult. The front hub motors when they are powered up and in use do feel different than rear wheel power but I've gotten use to that on the other two electrics I'm riding.
Rick C.
Rick C.