Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[fasteddy]

Ludwig is absolutely correct. Your work does precede you in it's excellence plus the fact that some of us are unable to simply make it nice and say it's done. There are the i dotters and the t crossers who don't stop until the jobs done.

Steve.

 

[indian22]

Thanks Ludwig and Steve the forum members here are the only ones I've shared the "chuckle head" concept with until today when I came into the shop with my box full of rocker head pieces. I've been banned from shop work (Doc's orders) for a time so all progress has been roughed in at my home. All work ceased as the shiny bits appeared & questions began...then suggestions and offers of help followed. I guess the reaction was to be expected from guys that love bikes, rods , engines and racing...gear heads with motor brains. From their perspective it was: Why didn't you do this on the Simplex Copper Gator bike?

I found some of the tools and materials I'd come for and retreated so they could get on with making a living. I've decided perhaps remaining sequestered for a time is a good thing, but their excitement over my fun project as well as the comments made in your posts has an energizing effect to press on with this bit of frivolity.

I was able to work up the alternate back plate/spacer for the spark plug side of the rocker cover. Keep in mind that the photo's shown are work in progress and dimensions have been left slightly over sized & surfaces unfinished. Assembled photos are mocked up using whatever hardware is at hand. Concept is shown as I fabricate & is subject to a great deal of refinement as a part of the process. I also change directions with input from others and my own predilections.

Those familiar with early Harley OHV designs realize the simplicity of design utilized in their construction. There is however genius in simplicity & this is true of many successful engine designs. HD's early OHV engine valve trains were minimalist in nature. External tubes guided camshaft driven push rods to rocker arms mounted on two rocker shafts. The rockers opened the valves against spring pressure which ensured positive valve closure. Lifters were employed at the juncture of camshaft/push rod. The very first designs were of exposed springs & rockers...which were quickly refined and enclosed from the elements of contamination.

In order to fake such a rocker cover & motor these basics are kept in mind, not to replicate the HD design exactly but to make it plausible to those who should know better. Not to fool the knowledgeable but to intrigue him to look closer at the engine & to better sell the authentic look of the entire bike. The Honda design of the CG 125 has the spark plug on the opposite side of the cylinder than early Harley's, so that places the valve tubes on my faux Harley on the wrong side as well...dead give away to a "real" Harley guy or gal.

I build bikes to ride and do so daily (weather & health permitting). I would love to posses an authentic Cyclone, Pope, Excelsior, Ace, Indian or Harley in 100 point condition, others as well, but would sell as quickly as the market would prudently permit. I would treasure them, but not being able to daily enjoy them on the road would force me to sell. So to build something that appears pretty authentic and that I can ride dependably is what I'm personally looking for in a build...not a collector piece & definitely not to sell and profit on.

Just some thought's as I wind down my day. Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Time to finish weld the frame, cradle & fork in order to bring the Peashooter up on wheels & bearing the full weight of the engine. The frame's not going to get any straighter, nor available space going to expand. So I'll enlist a shop hand to weld her up for me. Hate having someone else doing what so recently was routine for me.

Harley & the Davidson's turned out well & I feel it will help promote vintage bike interests and activity. Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Here are about 30 of the 45 basic components (not including fasteners) which when completed and assembled will comprise the real faux "chuckle head" rocker assembly cover. Most of the raw aluminum rod stock won't be be used but some of each diameter will... in varying lengths. I may be forced to machine a few of the pieces in lathe & mill but am hoping to achieve a quite believable cover using only inexpensive & common shop tools. Just because it's a fake doesn't mean it's got to be simple, easy or quick. The number of parts could increase if I decide to partially expose the valve springs, which is quite possible but still under consideration.

"Half Harley" Peashooter engine pieces only just begun or still pending are the exhaust, air cleaner box, back cylinder block plate, magneto enclosure and engine side plate modifications.

Unless the guys stayed late last evening I doubt any welding of the frame components was done, shop's been busy with paying work which always comes first. Of course I'm not close to having the engine ready for those performance mods either as I'd like all the before mentioned cosmetic changes completed and mocked up in the frame before internal engine work begins.

Still feeling kinda crappy yet very happy. Busy hands in Angelic workshops & all that...Rick C.

 

[silverbear]

Just spent some time catching up on your progress, Rick. I've not been on a computer (other than the smart phone) for some time spending a lot of my summer at the lake and without internet. Good to see the wonderful progress you're making and look forward to seeing it all come together. Keep healing up! Go easy, but keep going...
SB

 

[indian22]

Hey Silver bear glad to hear from you. I hope you've enjoyed the summer at the lake & your're feeling well. Thanks for the encouragement. Health issues are day to day...no worries.

Finished the frame, keystone cradle & fork welding about an hour ago and one of the guys dropped them off at my place as I was starting this reply. Photos were taken at the shop earlier. Everything lines up and the cradle fits with just a bit of encouragement, snug fit just like I like. Solid mig welds, but I'm left with some cleanup to do. Wheels also came in. Progress! Rick C.

 

[fasteddy]

Absolutely wonderful Rick and now the build moves forward in a major way.

Steve.

 

[Harold_B]

"I build bikes to ride and do so daily (weather & health permitting). I would love to posses an authentic Cyclone, Pope, Excelsior, Ace, Indian or Harley in 100 point condition, others as well, but would sell as quickly as the market would prudently permit. I would treasure them, but not being able to daily enjoy them on the road would force me to sell. So to build something that appears pretty authentic and that I can ride dependably is what I'm personally looking for in a build...not a collector piece & definitely not to sell and profit on. "
Rick C.

I think this sums it up for a lot of us even though we have a very broad range of capabilities. Well said and great looking build!

 

[Gbrebes]

Hey Indian22,

Your new frame looks really nice, professional.

This is your thread, so you should do whatever you think is best, but I was wondering if it might not be a good idea for you two split this second build into its own build thread, instead of mixed with the simplex build.

Just a thought.

I am glad you are part of this forum. You are an important contributor.

Gilbert

 

[indian22]

Thanks Steve, Harold and Gilbert for your comments & for the enjoyment I've received in reading your posts and especially watching your builds and activities over the past few years. I was a lurker for several years before joining a bit over 1 1/2 years ago.

Gilbert that's a good question. Why not start a new build thread with the Harley?
I gave it some thought & here's my answer. I've only two threads in this forum. The first covered three bikes that I was in the process of completing, each quite different, but all with China girls. I didn't think anything about it as I've almost always more than one personal project going at once. Rods, bikes, trucks etc. so I gloped them all together.

Fast forward to the Old guys thread by which time I'd acquired the Simplex frame, which turned out to be a not salvageable, the parts were in nice condition, the forks were what really caught my attention because they were so small & looked like they came off a Harley. I actually pulled up photos that day of Simplex's bike to verify they were original. That was the beginning of the Harley Peashooter, before I had a real clue that I would end up building a complete new & greatly enhanced and enlarged Simplex like frame...the Harley build with a Sportsman frame was half developed in my obsessive mind.

The Simplex Copper gator only utilized 3 original Simplex parts the head (steer tube with serial number) & the rear axle drop plate...that's it! The Harley has a complete Simplex front end, so it's HD look though different is still more Simplex than Harley, component wise. In fact only the two HD frame tube clamps are authorized HD parts.

I'm also using the single thread as a quicker way to reference between the two builds as both are powered by the CG 125 Honda clone 5 speed, push rod engines with kick start. The use of the small motorcycle engines is fairly unique in the motorized bike world. Though the engine features nice power and a real 5 speed with wet clutch it's basic design is about a half century old...actually vintage. To install one of these in a double tube small motor cycle frame (but with pedal assist) Simplex is one thing but probably not what most on this forum will attempt. However to see the same motor setup on a single tube Sportsman frame...now that might be helpful to others wanting to step up to the reality of a very real small bore (or large) motorcycle engine on a true bicycle style frame.

By posting the two builds together I hope to eliminate the need for a great deal of redundancy in my posts concerning especially engine and power transfer. Both motors will utilize the same basic setup to transfer power to the rear wheel. Both can be pedal powered. Each uses coaster brakes, clincher tires, Sportsman hub adapter and sprocket.

Gilbert & forum members I hope this clarifies somewhat my thinking on why I included more than one build in each of my two threads. Seemed reasonable at the time lol.

I really enjoy this complete forum & though I seldom post outside of the vintage & tri-car categories I do read many other posts. Gilbert I'd love to join the young guns at a Grange race someday I know it would be great fun!

Rick C.

 

[Gbrebes]

Gilbert & forum members I hope this clarifies somewhat my thinking on why I included more than one build in each of my two threads. Seemed reasonable at the time lol.

Rick C.

That's a good enough reason for me. Like I said, it's your thread and you should do it however you want. I just don't want any of the valuable information to get lost or overlooked.

And yes, you would enjoy the races very much. That's a long drive from Oklahoma though, so I don't blame you for not attending yet. Hopefully someday.

Gilbert

 

[indian22]

Absolutely wonderful Rick and now the build moves forward in a major way.

Steve.

Hi Steve. I was able to spend several hours doing the grunt work of cleaning up welds on fork, Keystone cradle and frame and also stripping the silver paint from the engine. Hard to tell from the photos but the motor looks much older now in raw aluminum. I wasn't feeling creative so drudge work was my solution to lack of inertia and now I'll start putting the bike back together for final spacing, sizing and chain line set up. Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Frame as well.

 

[butchl]

What size is that frame head? Looks stronger than a bike.

 

[indian22]

Hi Butch, It's strong but then it's a Sportsman pedal bike frame...D.O.M tube. I think it's 1" headset bearings, but I'm not sure I just used some bike bearings I had on hand & they fit the bearing cups I'd installed, also out of my stock. I'd hazard a guess & say Pat's frame is much stronger than the 1915 Harley V-twin race frames. D.O.M steel tube may "look" fragile but it's an incredibly strong building material...that's why it's so expensive and worth it!

Motor is back in the Keystone cradle & frame. I hope to have it up on wheels this weekend. Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I made the front frame to engine connection plates today & installed with just enough room to spare. I'm sure glad I took lots of accurate measurements prior to commitment to this build. Like the Simplex Copper Gator everything just barely fits on the Harley Peashooter. For a V twin build with transmission I'd say at least a 6" stretch with a Keystone cradle lowering the motor 3" or so would work with a 250 cc Virago V-twin engine. Adjusting ride height of the engine is so easy with the cradle.

I've got one small bracket (two plates) to fab for the lower rear motor mount which show in the photo as empty holes in engine and cradle. Five mounts on the engine & all are important; as I feel the smooth operation, almost without any engine vibration at any speed on the Simplex, is due in part to using all the factory points of attachment. I'll probably wait till Monday to mount the fork, wheels and kickstand (drive off style). I'll give it a good look to see if I'm still on course with the look I'm going for. It's never too late to go back & change what doesn't suit me...no sacred cows on my builds! Rick C.

 

[culvercityclassic]

Your fab work and design looks great, do you have clearance for the exhaust header? Whats the plan for pedal cranks?

 

[indian22]

Wolf man you are a builder indeed and ask good questions based on lessons learned, probably some learned the hard way. Using the same model engine in the Simplex as in this build helped me sort out an answer before I began construction to both your questions. First the pedal side sprocket will be a 13 tooth rather than the 25 tooth sprocket used on the Simplex, just not enough room to clear the rear motor bracket & case. I have one on order & will share a photo when it comes in. Ratio is 1.5 something overdrive. Should be easy to pedal but walking might be faster on the Harley. I may order another for the Simplex cause it's a bear to pedal on anything but flat stretches or down hill.

I'll take a photo of the exhaust manifold I made from a piece of stainless plumbing elbow, same elbow as was used successfully on the Simplex, but ground smooth on the sides for this build to actually insert deeper into the exhaust port. I gained close to an inch of clearance with this mod. The exhaust port on the CG 125 is slightly right of center & exhaust system will exit to the right as well & dump under the engine case on the right, so just opposite of the high riding longer pipe exiting on the left of the Simplex. That one was tight, but looked like I wanted so it was worth the effort.

It's also possible that when I locate the perfect engine location left to right (I've about half an inch adjustment on the motor brackets sideways) I may have to adjust the pedal lever on the right side to clear the case. Which I was forced to do on the Simplex copper gator as well. No big deal but have to alter the length of left lever as well to avoid lopsided pedals...left side pedal clearance is not an issue, but since I shift off the pedal in the down position the left side pedal has to remain quite close to the case. Shifting takes a bit of getting used to if your not a pedal bike and motor cycle rider as well, but quite natural after a few rides to get acquainted. I'll post some photos as a followup to your questions. Rick C,

 

[indian22]

Photos shows S.S. elbow and exhaust manifold clamp ring, notice the elbow fits inside the ring & into the exhaust port opening on the head. A short flange (less than an inch long) will be welded to the stainless elbow on the exhaust port side and that flange compress's & seals the copper ring gasket between head port and exhaust manifold flange. Studs will probably be removed & socket head (Allen) fasteners used in their place as was done on the Simplex CG 125. If your wondering what the "ring pulls against three micro tabs are welded to the engine side of the S.S. elbow & the ring is left free to swivel for simple exhaust pipe adjustment.

The other photo shows a discarded co-axle (reduction gear) used to temporarily align the Simplex motor side primary and final chain lines. Both are 15 tooth, no reduction, keyed, go cart sprockets welded back to back. Of course they won't run a key, but just free wheel. I'll build a permanent one before final assembly, this setup is just for initial visual confirmation of basic chain lines and length. Wolf since I explained the tight fit on the pedal side it occurred to me that you might have expected an explanation of sprocket to case clearance on the motor drive side as well, especially given the previously posted photo of the bottom bracket/engine & the lack of daylight between them. You might remember that Pat builds using classic two inch bottom bracket shells & therefore intuitively questioned the feasibility of fitting a 2 1/2" wide sprocket in that extremely limited space & rightly so, yet it does clear but just barely with chain about a quarter of inch. I do have about an inch of forward adjustment but shouldn't need it. I'd just have to alter the dimensions of three brackets & one of those hasn't yet been fabricated & the other needs to be shortened any way.

At any rate you will see the co-axle & motor drive side sprocket mock up this week when the bikes up on two wheels again. The Simplex build really simplified a lot of issues for the Harley Peashooter giving me more time to fool around and make things harder. This is so much fun! Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Just enough room to get the reduction drive in, the exhaust manifold on, pedal levers to clear, kick starter to work & the shift lever to...well shift, from the left pedal. Kinda pleased that further modifications won't be necessary in these areas.
Rick C.