Velocars and other interesting vehicles.

[moto-klasika]

Zoran, tell us what's going on here.

http://modelist-konstruktor.com/razrabotki/lodka-motoczikl-avtomobil

I likethe gold coloured one on this page, take a look at the Grandson of Bond engine location.

http://avtopogliad.com.ua/car-and-men/49/eduard-rudik-zrobiv-19-mashin

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Hello Ludwig, [/FONT]
​

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Simply - in bad-old USSR during fifties-sixties people liked to have cars, but they were too expensive and even when somebody had money – must wait too long on one! Necessity is mother of invention! So, [/FONT]Доктор технических наук профессора А. Г. Игнатова [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]– Dr. Tech. Sci. Prof. A. G. Igniatov made his own “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]automobile”[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif] using engine and other components of Scooter Tula 200 cc! Year was 1966 and name “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Robot[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]”! Construction is like small boat: wooden frame and plywood over that! Sketches and photos explain a lot, but if you interested in some particular detail – ask, and I would try to answer. I do not know Russian, but it is similar to Serbian and I could understand a lot! Beside, our Cyrillic alphabets are similar! There were a lot of such constructions, made everywhere, from Moscow to Siberia!
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]In period from 1963-1966 I had correspondence with a fellow from Kaluga, USSR and he send me a few of “Modellist-Konstructor” magazines with many DIY projects, something as American popular technique-science magazines, modest in quality but richer in ideas! Some other I saw in “Russian home” as was called it, but was forbidden for us! [/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Beside such “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]automobiles[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]” I saw many variants of “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]velomobiles[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]” (didn't know for that phrase and fact that people build them everywhere)... People wonted simple, practical and cheap transport for entire year! Somewhere I had photos of similar “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]automobile[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]” built by another Professor, but with 4 wheels![/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]--- ---[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The second web-site is about some Edward Rudik that built 19 small automobiles in his life! Pay attention on old and new photos of him and his cars! He is trying to establish serial production, but I am not sure if he have success in that! Here you could see video-clip with his project of strange configuration, similar to discussed “[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]sociable layout[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]”:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://avtopogliad.com.ua/electromobiles/112/eduard-rudik-pochinaye-virobnictvo-elektromobiliv-za-5-tisyach-dolariv[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]After it, there could be seen a few more![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Ciao,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Zoran[/FONT]
​

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Fascinating There's some interesting ideas in Prof. A. G. Igniatov's little three wheeler.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Another Russian plan. Use Google Translate

http://asyl.ucoz.com/load/velomobil/velomobil/ot_velosipeda_k_velomobilju_ii/55-1-0-227

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Another Russian plan. Use Google Translate

http://asyl.ucoz.com/load/velomobil/velomobil/ot_velosipeda_k_velomobilju_ii/55-1-0-227

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

More fun Russian velocars

http://asyl.ucoz.com/load/velomobil/velomobil/55

 

[moto-klasika]

Hello Anne,
all of web-links leaded me to "forbiden pages" - but, not quite dangerous: AVIRA antivirus program!
Zoran
P.S.: Shown velo-auto is cute and practical!

 

[Allen_Wrench]

Intrepid Wheelwoman, thank you so much, that's just about what I was looking for! That's a beautiful velo/Kinneri!

Mostly I was curious as to how they had routed the chain, and I like that particular method, lot of potential for gear reduction there...

Yes, same here. Thanks much. Due to unbelievably tight financial conditions at present, I haven't been able to do much more with my own velomobile than gather more parts. But the above post provided valuable ideas. Thanks again.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Glad to help

Moller Autocycle and sidecar. Enjoy

 

[curtisfox]

That's KOOL,don't know about the steering wheel. Like the side car, kind of looks like Silverbear's canoe side car, thanks IW...................Curt

 

[Ludwig II]

?1920s Monet Goyon

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Anything made by Monet Goyon always cheers me up because of its mechanical audacity

Mochet also used steering wheels on their recumbent type bikes Curt. Mark it down to folk trying out new ideas
I think that sidecar is pretty darn cool too.

 

[curtisfox]

Yep seen that,nothing wrong with it just don't tickle my fancy. Along with the looks of some, but somewhere along the line someone had to make the first. No matter what the are all KOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL. LOL.......Curt

 

[mogollonmonster]

Up late (it's past midnight as I write) with a straight edge and a spiral notebook, spitballing ideas.

Ok, with the Ajatar2 as my inspirational guideline, I'm trying to cushy up my ride. Thus suspension, mostly front, as the rear don't steer.

For the back a swing arm with a China Girl and rear wheel, mounted as a unit. Spring and dampening provided by a single coil-over unit, in a trailing link configuration, with wheel before the coil-over.

For the front I am not at all sure. I've been toying with a "walking-beam" inspired set up. A leaf spring, mounted on top of the axle, but running in parallel. The leaf hangers would mount left/right, rather than fore/aft. This set-up would allow significant articulation of the axle, and thus body roll. In theory, the velocar would be able to lean a bit. However it would certainly require anti-roll bars, to keep from folding back, and likely anti-sway bars as well.

Which bring up the idea of a 4-link type suspension. Simple, proven, and familar, I've built a few for trucks. But they don't look right in my head. Independent Front Suspension has crossed my mind, but again IFS just won't look right.

Should I leave the front rigid, as the rear will be covered by body work? Half the point of the trailing link set-up in the back, is to soften the ride as much as possible. Will it be enough on it's own, for use as a daily driver? It would certainly be simpler, and faster for me to skip front suspension, and say just use bigger front wheels.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Being a very old fashioned type of lady myself mogollonmonster, I think I would tend to stay with the original type of design because it's simple light and doesn't have all that many moving parts.

By the way this is the steering/suspension from the other blue kinneri velo I posted which is also a favourite of mine

Provision for some kind of bushings for the steering pivot would be a good idea, but otherwise this is the system just about all the kinneri velo built at this time used. 26 inch diameter wheels would be a sensible minimum for a velocar like this because they roll very nicely and can cope with bumps very well. I live in a rural district and the roads can be less than good in parts which is why I've stuck with using 26 and 28 inch wheels on my bikes and on my Hercules trike too.

I wish I could show you an example of my own take on this kind of suspension/steering arrangement, but unfortunately my own stalled efforts are buried under junk in the garage due to me being unwell over the past few months

 

[mogollonmonster]

I stepped out the door this morning, just after dawn. Boots crunching in the crusted snow, a light breeze from the southeast blew loos flakes down from the towering ponderosa pines. As I stand in northern Arizona's wintertime glory, a cottontail rabbit bounces from bush to bush, and I am reminded of Sir Isaac Newton's theories of inertia.

Last year I hit a little bitty cottontail in my wife's car. At 65mph, the less than ten pound bunny did more than $3000 in damage.

We also have a large population of the iconic "Jack rabbit" which is actually a hare, and average 20lbs. For these reasons, I've decided on a rigid, and robust front end, relying on rear suspension to take the worst of the bite out of our county roads. I'll take a bit of bashing, If it gives me some measure of protection. Our local deer and elk would still hurt, but a half ton animal will put a hurtin on a tracto-trailer, so no point in worrying there.

Basically, I can't have one of Peter Cottontail's cousins kill my Kinneri. My build is all planning and partsmongering at this point, so there's plenty of time to think. I've come up with an interesting cable and capstan concept for steering, much like what's used in boats and ships, something to make it more my own.

Also I've been thinking a lot about the controls. Pedaling will be required to maintain my "exempt" status. To save foot room, I think the only pedals should drive the chain. Thus, hand controls. Throttle and clutch mounted to one lever, and brakes mounted to the steering. Also it should not drive anything like a common auto, it should be puzzling to the uninitiated. Thus, hand controls! There should be more than a little touch of whimsy to it! Somehow I can't seem to shake the feeling that it should look faster than it really goes. Them Kinneri, like the Ajatar2 look destined for Bonneville, despite their obvious power plant deficiency.

Feel better IW, I can't wait for photos of the finished "Intrepid". Time for a cup of coffee and some creative staring for this Insipid Wing Nut.

 

[Ludwig II]

What about pulling the steering column backwards for acceleration, and pushing forwards for braking, leaving just the clutch on the left bar end? It's just a thought.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Wow mogollonmonster rabbits are a tough breed where you come from!

I do take your point though and the last thing you want is to have your lovely velocar taken out by a stray critter. So you're thinking of using wire and bobbin steering? Set up properly it does work well and it's also completely period correct for a good many light cyclecars as well as kinneri/velocars too.

Grafton Cyclecar.

As it happens thinking about kinneri/velocars and my poor old 'Intrepid' languishing under piles of clutter led me to going out to the garage this morning and doing a little creative staring. The outcome from that is now I've reasoned out a simpler approach that will be less work for me as well as using a good many bits and bobs I've already got to hand. The base chassis which I've already constructed will need almost no modification to achieve this which pleases me a lot. Of course as soon as I mentioned my revised design to my daughter she started in on persuading me to make it electric instead of IC powered.

The revised layout will be similar to this.......

I'm sure no one will mind me posting an image taken from the plan for an early 1920s cyclecar that I've waved about earlier in this thread

 

[mogollonmonster]

Yes ma'am, our bunnies are tough, though it should be said that the car was a 2012 Hyundai Accent, mostly plastic. My Diesel was the "COD" of a large number of the hoppy-folk during the years I drove it, never a problem there.

Wire and bobbin huh? The picture of the Grafton, is quite close to what I had in mind. And Ludwig, that's an interesting idea, and ill keep it in mind. What I had been picturing in my head was an operating lever for the throttle with the clutch lever mounted to it, for an old school look. By the way, that Grafton is for the brave to be sure.

IW, from what I've read, you're an ingenious lady and I've no doubt your velocar will be a work of art when complete. Good luck ma'am, I'm rooting for you!

I just want to state now, that this project of mine is an attempt at short changing "The Man". Basicly I'm gearing toward an exempt auto, more or less. It's a long way from town to home, and I'm not fool enough to try to pedal home from work. Why should I have to pay all that money for a car, when I can build something I can actually work on?

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Aw gee whizz thank you mogollonmonster

The chap who built the Grafton is named Tim Gunn, he lives in the UK and has a vintage bicycle restoration and parts business. Much of the Grafton's running gear is based around modified vintage heavyweight bicycle parts. It is powered by a 1919 300cc J.A.P. sidevalve motorcycle engine with racing cams - 3 speed Sturmey Archer motorcycle lightweight gearbox and has a wooden ash chassis frame. Tim Gunn based his cyclecar on a book published in 1913 titled 'How to Build a Cyclecar'. He offered a privately published edition of this book for sale a year or two ago, but unfortunately they sold like hot cakes and I missed out

I had a potter about for a short while in the garage this afternoon until I started getting fatigued and had to come inside. So far I've established that the 'Intrepid' will have a front track of 34 inches and a wheelbase of 6 feet. Suspension will be by quarter elliptic springs. The rear driven wheel will be one from an old Puch motorcycle (no I don't have the rest of the motorcycle, - just the wheel) and the front wheels will be build up using fun-kart front wheel rims as hubs. The fun-kart wheel rims I will be using have disc brakes attached which will solve my braking problems for me. (Yes I am a terrible hoarder of mechanical bits )
Ideally I would prefer drum brakes and not these new fangled modern disc brakes, but since I already have all the necessary parts to hand I suppose i can grin and bear it.
The motive power will be my lovely pre-war Villiers two stroke engine and I'll be using an Albion 3 speed gearbox with hand gear change and kickstarter.

 

[mogollonmonster]

Sounds like a beautiful machine you have in the works, ma'am. I've been been reading through your build thread, as well as this one, lots of information.

My build is still a long way from the first cuts, due to finances. But, I have some parts I can use laying around and many more to gather. I'm researching suspension heavily, and I'm not settled on the front.

When I finally get home, I'll be able to apply my research and drafting kit to some paper. So far, I'm planning on a 24" rear wheel, and I'm considering 29" up front. In my head, the frame is laid out, and the body work is taking shape. From the front axle rearward, it will be all kinneri, but the front will follow the lines of the famous P-51D "Mustang" fighter plane, in profile at least. I'm hoping the pointed front end will help fight the wind and reduce drag. Also I'm planning an aircraft style windscreen, with a frame and fabric canopy. The nose section will likely be the most difficult to shape, as I want it to be seamless and very light. If need be I can shape it from sheet steel, but it may look like it has been through a hailstorm. Body filler may be implemented.

I guess it's kind of a vintage streamliner. As much as I hate it, the term "steampunk" fits. And I can't stop dreaming of a leather helmet and faceted goggles.