Really a nice build Silverbear! I havent read the complete thread but am curious over the engine, what size and hp does it have? Best regards from Sweden! Happy easter!
Indian Hiawatha
- Thread starter silverbear
- Start date
Thank you Mekano.
The engine is a model 1932 Fitchel & Sachs 98cc 2 stroke with built in two speed transmission. Many of them were made for light motorcycles in Germany between 1931 and the early 1950's. Happy Easter to you, too.
SB
The engine is a model 1932 Fitchel & Sachs 98cc 2 stroke with built in two speed transmission. Many of them were made for light motorcycles in Germany between 1931 and the early 1950's. Happy Easter to you, too.
SB
Wooo (holding back on the hoooo until later).
Took the bike to Dan's, poured in some gas, rotated the air filter to put it on choke and clumsily pedaled 20 feet or so, let out the clutch, released the decompression valve and the motor gave a little fart of smoke out the exhaust and started up... I rode it up the street and stopped to turn around as it died. I had attempted to give it gas and it didn't seem to be having much effect... got all focused on that and then realized that I had not taken it off choke when it started. By the time it died it was flooded good and had no interest in starting. While walking the bike back the drive chain seemed to be catching on the drive sprocket and doing a little hickup in it's rotation. Not good and the pedal chain is too loose.
I had the choice of fiddling with the Hiawatha or going ahead with welding work on the gas tank for the 50 Panther. The welder is at Dan's and I can work on the Hiawatha here this coming week, so I chose to work with Dan on the gas tank.
Hopefully next week the chain issues will be resolved and we can try again. I want things to be right before trying to ride off into the sunset, else I have to walk the bike home in the dark. No thanks.
By the way, the exhaust noise was not bad at all. At least with the engine choked it was pretty quiet. It started anyway!
SB
Took the bike to Dan's, poured in some gas, rotated the air filter to put it on choke and clumsily pedaled 20 feet or so, let out the clutch, released the decompression valve and the motor gave a little fart of smoke out the exhaust and started up... I rode it up the street and stopped to turn around as it died. I had attempted to give it gas and it didn't seem to be having much effect... got all focused on that and then realized that I had not taken it off choke when it started. By the time it died it was flooded good and had no interest in starting. While walking the bike back the drive chain seemed to be catching on the drive sprocket and doing a little hickup in it's rotation. Not good and the pedal chain is too loose.
I had the choice of fiddling with the Hiawatha or going ahead with welding work on the gas tank for the 50 Panther. The welder is at Dan's and I can work on the Hiawatha here this coming week, so I chose to work with Dan on the gas tank.
Hopefully next week the chain issues will be resolved and we can try again. I want things to be right before trying to ride off into the sunset, else I have to walk the bike home in the dark. No thanks.
By the way, the exhaust noise was not bad at all. At least with the engine choked it was pretty quiet. It started anyway!
SB
Wooo (holding back on the hoooo until later).
Took the bike to Dan's, poured in some gas, rotated the air filter to put it on choke and clumsily pedaled 20 feet or so, let out the clutch, released the decompression valve and the motor gave a little fart of smoke out the exhaust and started up... I rode it up the street and stopped to turn around as it died. I had attempted to give it gas and it didn't seem to be having much effect... got all focused on that and then realized that I had not taken it off choke when it started. By the time it died it was flooded good and had no interest in starting. While walking the bike back the drive chain seemed to be catching on the drive sprocket and doing a little hickup in it's rotation. Not good and the pedal chain is too loose.
I had the choice of fiddling with the Hiawatha or going ahead with welding work on the gas tank for the 50 Panther. The welder is at Dan's and I can work on the Hiawatha here this coming week, so I chose to work with Dan on the gas tank.
Hopefully next week the chain issues will be resolved and we can try again. I want things to be right before trying to ride off into the sunset, else I have to walk the bike home in the dark. No thanks.
By the way, the exhaust noise was not bad at all. At least with the engine choked it was pretty quiet. It started anyway!
SB
Took the bike to Dan's, poured in some gas, rotated the air filter to put it on choke and clumsily pedaled 20 feet or so, let out the clutch, released the decompression valve and the motor gave a little fart of smoke out the exhaust and started up... I rode it up the street and stopped to turn around as it died. I had attempted to give it gas and it didn't seem to be having much effect... got all focused on that and then realized that I had not taken it off choke when it started. By the time it died it was flooded good and had no interest in starting. While walking the bike back the drive chain seemed to be catching on the drive sprocket and doing a little hickup in it's rotation. Not good and the pedal chain is too loose.
I had the choice of fiddling with the Hiawatha or going ahead with welding work on the gas tank for the 50 Panther. The welder is at Dan's and I can work on the Hiawatha here this coming week, so I chose to work with Dan on the gas tank.
Hopefully next week the chain issues will be resolved and we can try again. I want things to be right before trying to ride off into the sunset, else I have to walk the bike home in the dark. No thanks.
By the way, the exhaust noise was not bad at all. At least with the engine choked it was pretty quiet. It started anyway!
SB
Sweet deal. Was worried there might be a problem or a weld broke. It started and ran if only until it chocked it's self.
How is the tank coming? Smoothly I hope.
Here is a site I found that talks about our engines. The author is a well known British bike and motor bike restorer and dealer. Midway down he gives serial numbers to match to the years they were produced up until 1942.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...z-yxAw&usg=AFQjCNE7hVMM6LoVVdMZUtNqyP6ZLdBOxA
Steve.
How is the tank coming? Smoothly I hope.
Here is a site I found that talks about our engines. The author is a well known British bike and motor bike restorer and dealer. Midway down he gives serial numbers to match to the years they were produced up until 1942.
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j...z-yxAw&usg=AFQjCNE7hVMM6LoVVdMZUtNqyP6ZLdBOxA
Steve.
Thanks for the link, Steve. Next Saturday I'll write down the serial number from the engine. I'm betting yours is older than mine even if they look the same. The brass collar deal for attaching the exhaust pipe to the engine is a clue to that. Mine was aluminum or pot metal of some kind.
The Panther tank is coming along well. I made an exhaust manifold for the Predator engine which required a bit of welding, but mostly we worked on the gas tank, getting it closer to the welding stage.
I'm also trying to put together a 1980's cantilever Schwinn with a HT engine to sell. I have a couple engines, so want to cobble a couple of bikes together to pay for Panther and Hiawatha expenses. Too many pots are oiling at once for this old cook. And all this is in between preparing garden beds for the owner here where I care take. The days may be longer, but they still aren't long enough to get everything done.
SB
The Panther tank is coming along well. I made an exhaust manifold for the Predator engine which required a bit of welding, but mostly we worked on the gas tank, getting it closer to the welding stage.
I'm also trying to put together a 1980's cantilever Schwinn with a HT engine to sell. I have a couple engines, so want to cobble a couple of bikes together to pay for Panther and Hiawatha expenses. Too many pots are oiling at once for this old cook. And all this is in between preparing garden beds for the owner here where I care take. The days may be longer, but they still aren't long enough to get everything done.
SB
Yep. Saw that coming a mile away (due to personal experience). How many of us have done this? Raise your hand.[The world swoons as a sudden surge of armpit odor circles the globe.]
Yeah, I was all excited about it starting up and actually running I forgot what I was doing. Giving it gas did nothing and I figured something was wrong with the throttle or cable or carb... everything except remembering it was on full choke. Ha! Actually I think that's the first time I've done that one. Or I conveniently forgot. With my memory, who knows?
Speaking of crappy memories, I pulled a good one the other day. Stopped at a gas station and went inside to pre-pay 25 bucks worth from my debit card, went back to the jeep and drove on to my shopping. Finished that and noticed that my gas gauge was almost on empty. Then it hit me that I'd never pumped the gas. First time for that one, too.
So you young guys reading this, let this be a preview of coming detractions of what to expect as you get older. Scary. actually. What will it be like when I'm 80 or 90? And I once thought thirty was old... not by a long shot.
Next week i will remember to shut down the choke at least part way as soon as it's running as I have a feeling this motor doesn't need a lot of choke, at least in mild weather.
SB
Speaking of crappy memories, I pulled a good one the other day. Stopped at a gas station and went inside to pre-pay 25 bucks worth from my debit card, went back to the jeep and drove on to my shopping. Finished that and noticed that my gas gauge was almost on empty. Then it hit me that I'd never pumped the gas. First time for that one, too.
So you young guys reading this, let this be a preview of coming detractions of what to expect as you get older. Scary. actually. What will it be like when I'm 80 or 90? And I once thought thirty was old... not by a long shot.
Next week i will remember to shut down the choke at least part way as soon as it's running as I have a feeling this motor doesn't need a lot of choke, at least in mild weather.
SB
Raising both hands ........Guilty as charged . for some reson the excitment of the first run an ride removes all common sence.
Drive off and pull the handle right out of the pump,yep. Got in and was ready to take off and thought I better pay for this. Went in to pay and wallets at home ( good thing they know me )Mind must be cruseing down the road on the motor bike...........Curt
It's good to know I'm not the only one with brain farts!
Fasteddy,
I was right, your engine is older than mine, but not by much. Serial number 667940 places it as a 1934 while yours is 1933. Just checked. Thanks again for the link.
SB
Fasteddy,
I was right, your engine is older than mine, but not by much. Serial number 667940 places it as a 1934 while yours is 1933. Just checked. Thanks again for the link.
SB
At last something older than us but not by much.
Laughing about you leaping on the bike and not checking everything. First time I tried the Monarch I tripple checked everything. Made sure the battery was in properly a half dozen times, got on the bike and.... Nothing.
Checked everything again and it's all as it should be. Still nothing. Muttered, cursed the God of Electricity and their ancesters back to their beginning and got back on the bike and then the facts hit me like a thunder bolt.
Got off it yet again lifted the hatch and there it was. The gremblin. The demond of my existence glaring at me with great content, quietly sitting on top of the battery while thumbing it's nose at me.
ON-OFF.
Steve.
Laughing about you leaping on the bike and not checking everything. First time I tried the Monarch I tripple checked everything. Made sure the battery was in properly a half dozen times, got on the bike and.... Nothing.
Checked everything again and it's all as it should be. Still nothing. Muttered, cursed the God of Electricity and their ancesters back to their beginning and got back on the bike and then the facts hit me like a thunder bolt.
Got off it yet again lifted the hatch and there it was. The gremblin. The demond of my existence glaring at me with great content, quietly sitting on top of the battery while thumbing it's nose at me.
ON-OFF.
Steve.
I did some work on the Hiawatha the other day and discovered that the chain alignment being off (which I couldn't understand because I had been so careful to see that all was well months ago) was due to the fact that I had NEVER tightened down the clamshell adapter or the three bolts holding the driven sprocket to the clamshell. All I can figure is that I didn't have thread lock at the time and intended do it later... and forgot about it.
So, now all bolts are tightened down and have thread lock. Since I won't be working on Bikes at Tinsmith's this weekend (we're going to the bike race at Street, Maryland tomorrow) and it being a gorgeous day I thought what the heck, try running the bike. So, gas in the tank, choke on, shifter in low range, clutch in, decompression valve open... I let it drift down the long driveway here and after fifteen feet or so let out the clutch, gave it compression and it started. Another 30 feet and I stopped the bike (clutch in) to fiddle with the choke to avoid flooding it. It took a minute for the engine to warm up so the choke was off (louder with no choke... sounds good!). Idle was a bit high, but Woohoo, it's alive!!
I let out the clutch and... nothing... the gears do not engage either in low or high range and the linkage is fine. I shut the motor off and noticed a bit of burn smell... not much, but something. Crap.
I walked the bike back and there is still no gear engagement, as if the clutch is in.
Something ain't right, that's for sure. Doesn't seem possible that I could have burned up the clutch in that little time, but It's in that area that the problem is since the engine ran fine, no grinding of gears or sounds of protest from the gearbox. What's left but the clutch?
It's a disappointment, alright. If parts have to be ordered from Germany then it is going to be next month before this is going again. An engine made in 1934 is a cool thing, but there is a down side to an old engine from another country. And I'm experiencing this downside right now. If anybody has any ideas, I'm listening.
While this problem simmers on the back burner I'll work on the leaf spring fork/ fender mounting and hook up the sidecar. This is part of the territory of vintage stuff, I guess, but I so much want to ride this thing.
SB
So, now all bolts are tightened down and have thread lock. Since I won't be working on Bikes at Tinsmith's this weekend (we're going to the bike race at Street, Maryland tomorrow) and it being a gorgeous day I thought what the heck, try running the bike. So, gas in the tank, choke on, shifter in low range, clutch in, decompression valve open... I let it drift down the long driveway here and after fifteen feet or so let out the clutch, gave it compression and it started. Another 30 feet and I stopped the bike (clutch in) to fiddle with the choke to avoid flooding it. It took a minute for the engine to warm up so the choke was off (louder with no choke... sounds good!). Idle was a bit high, but Woohoo, it's alive!!
I let out the clutch and... nothing... the gears do not engage either in low or high range and the linkage is fine. I shut the motor off and noticed a bit of burn smell... not much, but something. Crap.
I walked the bike back and there is still no gear engagement, as if the clutch is in.
Something ain't right, that's for sure. Doesn't seem possible that I could have burned up the clutch in that little time, but It's in that area that the problem is since the engine ran fine, no grinding of gears or sounds of protest from the gearbox. What's left but the clutch?
It's a disappointment, alright. If parts have to be ordered from Germany then it is going to be next month before this is going again. An engine made in 1934 is a cool thing, but there is a down side to an old engine from another country. And I'm experiencing this downside right now. If anybody has any ideas, I'm listening.
While this problem simmers on the back burner I'll work on the leaf spring fork/ fender mounting and hook up the sidecar. This is part of the territory of vintage stuff, I guess, but I so much want to ride this thing.
SB
If it has a friction material bonded to a metal plate, you could have it relined.
Do a web search, there are many companies that offer this.
If it is just a friction plate made of stamped friction material as many old clutches have, I'd order one from Germany and wait.
Do a web search, there are many companies that offer this.
If it is just a friction plate made of stamped friction material as many old clutches have, I'd order one from Germany and wait.
The chap we got the motors from is a motorbike and scooter restorer known the world over as one of the best so I'll email him and ask what it might be. Funny that it worked the first time out with no problems but not the next time.
We'll have some answers shortly I would guess.
Steve.
We'll have some answers shortly I would guess.
Steve.
Steve,
I listened to your good counsel and contacted Dave the motorman. I got up early to pretty soon leave for Tinsmith's to join him for the bike race in northern Maryland and just now found an email from Dave. Which follows:
"Excelent job on the bike I like it. Now as for clutch I sounds like your clutch discs. You do have an adjustment. You will have to remove the side cover to adjust the clutch. You will notice a small screw in the center with a lucking nut. loosen the nut & adjust the clutch. You want to turn the screw counter clockwise until you feel it is loose or away from the clutch push rod. Then turn it back in until it just touches the rod & turn the lock back down."
So, things do not look quite as glum as I imagined. Sunday I'll give it a look. Now, off to the races! I'm not racing, old bud... don't worry about the circus bear and wonder dog wiping out. It's enough of a danger my getting on and off the bike without mishap, but great fun watching others' madness.
I'm once again optimistic about the Hiawatha running soon...
SB
I listened to your good counsel and contacted Dave the motorman. I got up early to pretty soon leave for Tinsmith's to join him for the bike race in northern Maryland and just now found an email from Dave. Which follows:
"Excelent job on the bike I like it. Now as for clutch I sounds like your clutch discs. You do have an adjustment. You will have to remove the side cover to adjust the clutch. You will notice a small screw in the center with a lucking nut. loosen the nut & adjust the clutch. You want to turn the screw counter clockwise until you feel it is loose or away from the clutch push rod. Then turn it back in until it just touches the rod & turn the lock back down."
So, things do not look quite as glum as I imagined. Sunday I'll give it a look. Now, off to the races! I'm not racing, old bud... don't worry about the circus bear and wonder dog wiping out. It's enough of a danger my getting on and off the bike without mishap, but great fun watching others' madness.
I'm once again optimistic about the Hiawatha running soon...
SB
I got a second email from Dave as follows:
"Remember I told you might have to remove the clutch discs & clean them. Many times the cork sticks on the friction plates & have to be separated & cleaned. I use a brake cleaning arsenal spray can for that purpose. Better to remove the engine when doing this because of the small compression springs.Just be careful when doing this operation because it is considered a noninvasive procedure. ha. You can compress the discs with a large screw driver two remove the two retaining clips. The reason the discs stick is from non use where the paraffin or wax base in the grease builds up & acts like a glue. You have done a beautiful job on this bike, good luck."
I don't recall any such advise, but there's a lot I forget especially after a period of time goes by. I think what I'll do is remove the cover to take a look inside. If the discs look stuck or cruddy then the engine will need to come out. Oh boy... little springs that can fly off and hide. I can hardly wait.
SB
SB
"Remember I told you might have to remove the clutch discs & clean them. Many times the cork sticks on the friction plates & have to be separated & cleaned. I use a brake cleaning arsenal spray can for that purpose. Better to remove the engine when doing this because of the small compression springs.Just be careful when doing this operation because it is considered a noninvasive procedure. ha. You can compress the discs with a large screw driver two remove the two retaining clips. The reason the discs stick is from non use where the paraffin or wax base in the grease builds up & acts like a glue. You have done a beautiful job on this bike, good luck."
I don't recall any such advise, but there's a lot I forget especially after a period of time goes by. I think what I'll do is remove the cover to take a look inside. If the discs look stuck or cruddy then the engine will need to come out. Oh boy... little springs that can fly off and hide. I can hardly wait.
SB
SB
Words that make my blood run cold. Two little springs. We know where that's leading to.
I do recall that he mentioned that he had cleaned and greased one motor but we may need to do the other but only because he mentioned it again. Makes sense though since the clutch warmed and cooled and now it's stuck together.
Steve.
I do recall that he mentioned that he had cleaned and greased one motor but we may need to do the other but only because he mentioned it again. Makes sense though since the clutch warmed and cooled and now it's stuck together.
Steve.
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Yep, if mechanics told horror stories around campfires, they'd use words like: two little hard-to-replace springs (brrrrr!) or odd-sized snap rings (aaauugh!) or a precise number of needle bearings waiting to fall out when you remove their race (nyaahhhhrrr!).