Villiers beach cruiser

[Cam Nz]

Im not a ratio expert, but a large 20"? wheel has to have a pretty mad ratio for the small engines, maybe a 150mm dia pulley on the jackshaft and a 50mm pulley on the jackshaft going towards the rear wheel pulley, that rear wheel pulley is pretty large anyway, so maybe just a slight reduction on the jackshaft?

I was going to run chain to the back wheel , but im not sure what im going to run now, ill just have to wait for my second engine to make a decision i guess.

I like the little atco tank im using, going with that theme- maybe if the style suited you, an old fire extinguisher, chopped to your liking?

 

[harry76]

I plan to make the tank the same as the cardboard in the early photos. The Atco tank on mine was only for a test start.

And yeah as far as the jackshasft i gues its just trial and error. I plan on building other bikes so the unused pulleys will always be handy. And they arent overly dear. I havent bought the belts yet so i cant speak about their cost. But i was pleasantly surprised at the cost of pulleys.

 

[Cam Nz]

Yeah alumunium pulleys surprised me as well, they also polish up a treat!

As long as you keep the reciepts on the belts they should allow you to take them back if you tell them what your upto, my advice would be to gear it low for a start, and see how it performs, and then you can go upwards from there, if you made the jackshaft say 3/4 or something common, you might not have to do so much modification to the pulleys, i held mine on with a single 8mm grubscrew, i dont think it needs much more!

Cheers, Cam.

 

[silverbear]

Cam Nz,
Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you've joined us here and look forward to your build thread. I've already learned something about the exhaust I didn't know before... that the expansion chamber may not be of any real benefit on this engine. And I agree that it would not look as good as a straight pipe. May be that I will use something adjustable to control noise when needed (forget the name of those) to keep my neighbors smiling.
Without meaning to highjack your thread, Harry, I wanted to post something about what I'm up to and what will be the subject of a thread I'll start later called "Indian tri-car convertible". The bike in the photos is a Worksman Newsboy which did have a Chinese clone PK-80 2 stroke in it. There's little room in that frame for anything unless the frame is opened up and modified with a drop loop down tube, but I don't weld and if I can cram the Villiars in there as it is, then I will. I started stripping the Indian down yesterday and set the Villiars in place. With a smaller pedal sprocket I can gain another inch or so of engine room and think it will work. The intake manifold will need to be different to get the carburetor level and a different exhaust manifold will need to dogleg around the front frame tube. Other than that, I don't see why it won't work and I like the way the cylinder head inclines following the line of the frame. Since it is a 2 stroke there should be no issues with lubrication to consider. Do any of you see any reason this will not work in this frame? I may not be able to use the kick start... may need to just keep it simple with a rope start like yours, Cam. Thanks and forgive the intrusion into your build thread, Harry. Carry on, mates.
SB

 

[harry76]

Your certainly not hijacking my thread. I enjoy having a look. I really like your bike. Very very nice. Im not sure if running the motor on that angle would cause problems. But im thinking the more upright you can get the motor, the better it will look. Have you got a better side view of mockup? Im wondering if a short plug could help with lowering the motor and maybe getting it to stand upright. And you may need to remove the engine mounts. The actual base of the engines with no mounts is quite small and with a short plug (and maybe crimping the upper tube) you may get enough clearance to stand the motor up, if thats what you are looking to do.

 

[silverbear]

Your certainly not hijacking my thread. I enjoy having a look. I really like your bike. Very very nice. Im not sure if running the motor on that angle would cause problems. But im thinking the more upright you can get the motor, the better it will look. Have you got a better side view of mockup? Im wondering if a short plug could help with lowering the motor and maybe getting it to stand upright. And you may need to remove the engine mounts. The actual base of the engines with no mounts is quite small and with a short plug (and maybe crimping the upper tube) you may get enough clearance to stand the motor up, if thats what you are looking to do.

Here's two more photos. I have since removed the pedal crank and after finding a 36 tooth pedal sprocket will see how it sits. I know more upright is "normal" but I kind of like it leaning forward like that. I think. But lot's more staring and thinking about it is in order before I actually commit to doing it any certain way. I think the engine mounts it has will work with a couple of ears welded to the frame as you have done with yours. A shorter plug is an option, but no crimping of the upper tube. I can see that having the engine tilted might leave the kick start at an odd angle, so am warming to the idea of a rope or even wrapped leather belt start. Very few people who ever will see this bike will know that it is tilted. Hopefully they will think it is an early motorcycle and was manufactured that way. Since the oiling is in the gas there is no crankcase, so engine position shouldn't matter. Carburetor position would matter, but an adapter at the intake manifold could correct that. If altering the frame would make it lots better then I would consider that, but tilting the engine might be the simplest solution and least costly for me.
SB

 

[fasteddy]

Hello Cam NZ,
Glad you stopped over.

I agree with you that these motors are not speed demonds but they are industructable unless you run the petrol with out oil.
I would think that if you geared the bike right you would get 50km/30mph out of them.

These motors may become more popular for our bikes if we have some luck with them. They do have a nice vintage look to them.

NikonPictures034-2-1.jpg picture by speedydick - Photobucket

The photo above is my electric bike that I based on a 1952 Monark balloon tired bike. I built every thing on the sidecar but the wheel and restored the bike.
If you want you can tour through the photos but there is a lot of them so be warned in advance.
The motor is in the sidecar wheel but that wasn't what I wanted so it is all coming apart for a rebuild.

I think Silverbear mentioned it but we will make our bikes so that we can use the tri-car front end or replace that with forks for a motorcycle and have a sidecar if we wish to.

This side car will probably be what I use on my bike and I'll make a smaller, lighter sidecar for the electric bike.

Steve.

 

[harry76]

SB now that i have seen more side views i agree that i too like the motor on the angle. I still dont know if there are problems associated with running your motor like that. Hopefully there is enough room for your exhaust.

And i love that sidecar project Eddy. That sidecar is a thing of beauty

 

[harry76]

I have a thread over at Motoredbikes although not many people seem to visit that site. But anyway Luke shared a photo of his 1933 French Monet Goynon with a 98cc Villiers. I really like it. I have a couple of ladies frames at home and thought of using them for a build. But i really like this thing. Im thinking i could use the other motor pictured on this thread and stretch a ladies frame and build something very similar. I have too many builds going at once but i enjoy it that way, only working on it when i feel i want to rather then have to.
http://www.motoredbikes.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31713&d=1305410200

 

[silverbear]

That Monet is nice... I see that it is chain drive. I wish there was a way to find out more about that build... especially his drive setup.
I'm curious too, about the power of these engines. Cam NZ describes it as one hsp. That seems low to me for a 98cc engine. It will be interesting to see how these behave as motorbicycle engines... low end torque, power on hills, top end speed. Fasteddy says 30mph or so tops, which is OK for me providing it can also climb hills OK. Some way to do two speeds would sure be nice. Guess I'll worry about one speed first. Ha!
I know what you mean about multiple builds going on at once, Harry. I'm working on getting two four strokes ready for summer riding while stripping down the Indian for the Villiars transplant this summer, eyeballing a cantilever Schwinn for a shift kit and my 34 Elgin due for new paint and a HT engine, possibly with shift kit, both for next winter. Too many bikes and not enough money. Fun though, eh? I agree that shifting from one bike to another keeps it lively and interesting.
Fasteddy, looking over your fabulous Monark and sidecar again... just wonderful. I was thinking that your second Monark would sure look nice with a Villiars to power it.
Harry, what is the name of your thread on the other site? I'll take a look. Is Luke a member there? It would be nice to get some details on his build.
SB

 

[harry76]

My builds in the Heritage Lane section and it is named the same as on here. He only just posted on my thread i think. I dont go on there much. But i asked him what speeds he got out of it. Its a really nice bike and could easily be replicated with a ladies frame (i have 2), and i have that same motor, and would be good for a lady friend to ride or even someone who isnt flexible or young enough to get their leg over the bigger mens frames.

 

[harry76]

Speaking of too many projects, i just picked up a Honda GX160 and i think im gonna use it in my Indian instead of the 3HP Briggs. I really need to stop buying motors for a while LOL. Im also waiting to hear back when i can pick up the Atco/Villiers cylinder mower i bought off EBay.... Thats all the motors ill buy for a while now.

The Villiers for sale in Brisbane didnt sell for $80, i messaged him and offered him $40 but didnt hear back. He relisted it and last time i looked it was $15.50 with a week to go. Its the same slant head motor as we have. Its pickup only so id be happy to pick it up and forward it on to you if you wanted.

 

[fasteddy]

I saw the motor yesterday and noticed that he had put it up again. I'm thinking that it would be nice to have a spare.
I'll go back and look at it and see what it's up to price wise. Think it was around $80.00 to have it shipped to Canada.

Parts are the problem here. They don't exist.

Steve.

 

[harry76]

Heres the brackets i folded up but i think they are a little wide (40mm) but would look a lot better at 30mm and still be strong enough and fit the curve of the wheel better.

 

[Cam Nz]

Silverbear,

I really like the look of your bike with the slanted villiers, just a few more degrees than mine, i agree the carburettor will give you trouble on that angle, however with a 20-30 degree adapter not much more than a couple of inches long should eliminate those troubles, and the longer intake runner could give you a better top end because of the increased air speed/velocity as well,

I was also going to ask you what you are thinking of using as a clutch?

Those brackets look nice, how are you thinking of narrowing them?

I must put my thread up on this site, im itching to work on my bike now that ive seen your brilliant creations guys.

 

[harry76]

Yeah post a thread of your bike for sure. Id enjoy reading it and seeing your progression.

If i want thinner brackets ill just make new ones at work. I can get the stainless steel from work and use their guillotine and bender. And i really need to also put a small bend in the part that attaches to the bike rim to sit better and clear the ridge where the spokes attach to the rim.

 

[silverbear]

Harry,
Thanks for cluing me in on that Monet. That fellow may give us some good leads on an optional drive arrangement. I'm a member over there, but never found it a very friendly site, so rarely take a look. I've asked that he post more photos and give some details on the drive line. I wonder if his crankshaft was altered and what is fitted on there. Yes, a step through frame makes a lot of good sense, especially for older riders. Very cool that we are sharing information on these great little motors. You in Oz, Fasteddy in British Columbia, Cam NZ in New Zealand and me in remote northern Minnesota, USA. It would be good if Luke in Britain will join us in the pool. Water's great... come on in! Ha! I see you're a young guy. Somehow I imagined you were an old fart like Fasteddy & me. Here, we're all twelve again.
Cam, you asked about what sort of clutch I had in mind. My plan is for you smart young guys to figure it out so I don't have to. Then I'll do what you did. Hurry up! A member of our forum (msrfan) has done a number of 5 hsp Briggs & Stratton builds modeled after the old Whizzer motorbikes. He made up a little booklet showing how which I can send along to you by snail mail if you like. I've sent one to Fasteddy and one to Harry76. It has a lot of detail on his jack shaft, clutch and general drive line. Let me know if you want a copy.
SB

 

[harry76]

If Cam wants one, and MSRFAN doesnt mind, id be happy to forward a copy since you were nice enough to send me a copy. Sorta like paying it forward. Ive read it and it is a great little read. Good job MSR!!! Very helpful

 

[msrfan]

Thanks guys. No, I don't mind sharing my booklet. The info is pretty basic but never outdated. Those Whizzer engineers in the thirties and all the early motorbike builders have a lot of ingenious mechanisms we can use without inventing anything too complicated. One of the most important things I've learned over the years is not to rush anything, no matter how simple it seems. Think it to death and build and rebuild until it's just right so when you get done, there's very little modification needed. Also fit and finish is a must for me. I grind and polish every part whether it shows or not. I can't stand knowing there's something on my bike that's not totally thought out, smoothed, de-burred, sanded and painted. You guys are doing some great things with your different ideas. Can't wait to see them finished. I' ve got some old motors stashed away that I may mount on something someday using yours as reference. I have a few Techumsehs, Kohlers, Briggs, Maytags, a little military Lauson, a Tanaka, some Hondas, a REO, a Clinton 2 cycle, a Wisconsin, a Cushman and maybe more, I don't know. Then I have some large farm engines, Fairbanks, McCormick, Bean, Economy and Fuller & Johnson. Retirement is going to be busier than my Job, for sure.

 

[fasteddy]

Harry, Just a thought but if you narrow the clips and your worried about strength can you add more with out a lot of problems?

Cam, when I saw your bike all I could think of was get the man over to our forum. Your bike is fresh and original and I thought that everyone here would enjoy seeing it.
It's great to see what some other builder is doing with what we don't have and you and Harry have provided it.

Msrfan, I think that everyone notices the fit and finish on your builds. Not only do you always have inovative ways of solving a problem but you have a way of solving the problem that has a factory fit and finish look.

The transmission indicator is a prime example.

Steve.