Villiers beach cruiser
- Thread starter harry76
- Start date
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
That's good there's no fuel residue in there then. I learned from Tinsmith that using water to test for leaks is not reliable since gasoline is "thinner" than water, so that what may hold water may not hold gasoline. I tested my last tank with rubbing alcohol which can be poured back out leaving nothing behind which will not evaporate pretty quickly. At least that's the theory. I'm pretty careful with things that can go boom. Looking forward to more test run results...
SB
SB
WELL DONE! Congratulations on getting mobile under power.
I've been following your progress for a while. You have done a very good job of addressing the technicalities involved in this type of project.
Have you considered using the aluminium mower hand grip on the end of your clutch lever? it's a nice, period looking piece.
I have a Victa powered project bike underway. More of a vintage touring look than a board track racer.
I'm in Brissy too. Hope to see you out there someday.
Daryl
rustycase
Gutter Rider
OUTSTANDING !
Great news, Harry!
You have done excellent work, both in the design work, and fabrication!
The progression of your pics shows improvement in your skills as it goes along!
Just some thoughts along the way... From my not-so-comfortable armchair!
I think you should take it apart and use up 1 rattle can of cheapo spray paint on things to keep them from rusting while you get things dialed in...
How did your 'clutch' tensioner function for you?
Please tell us what belts you have used!!!
Will the length of the throw for your clutch lever be sufficient?
Seems very short to me...
Dropouts....
Whew! Pretty shakey having a novice welder doing critical welds on something such as that. Failure could be spectacular. NOT good.
Rather than the cut n' chop, I would have advised you cut newly designed brackets from steel and weld or braze them to the tubes.
I also would have advised a seriously long axle adjustment slot WITH adjustment bolts to keep the axle from moving under power.
Your tank... must be a very good welder to fab a tank that does not require tank sealer. Even IF I were a good welder, I would plan on using tank sealer to avoid he probability of a pinhole leak, on down the road, ruining my paintwork!
For apt guys... why not get a lunchbox welder?
Here's pics of mine... in it's case, and showing it's guts, which seem to me are as good as anything out there in it's class, and better than most, even.
It could be used off any good 20amp 110v circuit, but better off a 30amp 220v dryer circuit.
Best
rc
Great news, Harry!
You have done excellent work, both in the design work, and fabrication!
The progression of your pics shows improvement in your skills as it goes along!
Just some thoughts along the way... From my not-so-comfortable armchair!
I think you should take it apart and use up 1 rattle can of cheapo spray paint on things to keep them from rusting while you get things dialed in...
How did your 'clutch' tensioner function for you?
Please tell us what belts you have used!!!
Will the length of the throw for your clutch lever be sufficient?
Seems very short to me...
Dropouts....
Whew! Pretty shakey having a novice welder doing critical welds on something such as that. Failure could be spectacular. NOT good.
Rather than the cut n' chop, I would have advised you cut newly designed brackets from steel and weld or braze them to the tubes.
I also would have advised a seriously long axle adjustment slot WITH adjustment bolts to keep the axle from moving under power.
Your tank... must be a very good welder to fab a tank that does not require tank sealer. Even IF I were a good welder, I would plan on using tank sealer to avoid he probability of a pinhole leak, on down the road, ruining my paintwork!
For apt guys... why not get a lunchbox welder?
Here's pics of mine... in it's case, and showing it's guts, which seem to me are as good as anything out there in it's class, and better than most, even.
It could be used off any good 20amp 110v circuit, but better off a 30amp 220v dryer circuit.
Best
rc
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harry76
Well-Known Member
I did consider the mower handle, but it looks a little large.... i think i may just keep an eye out for a vintage looking knob. But this will do for the time being.
Its good to see another Aussie, and from Brissy as well. Outstanding...... Victa build you say? 2 stroke or 4? I have this 2 stroke 160cc Victa engine for the future.....
harry76
Well-Known Member
I plan not to paint it, but let it rust to a point im comfortable then either keep it oiled or flat clear it. I like that old look. I know i will have shiny wheels and tyres on an old rusty bike. But thats what im after, much like you see with ratrods....
Im was waiting for some criticism on my dropouts, but i cut a 3mm plate and fully welded to reinforce, so now the dropouts are a lot thicker then they were, i think they will be alright. I understand and appreciate your concerns. But if these fail, then so to will my engine mounts, jackshaft.... oh dear
The belts are just standard "A" section V-Belts, when i know they will work for sure i will reinvest in quality belts.
Clutch throw seems more then sufficient. My main problem is the belts some time seem to want to stay in the v section and not release (nothing to do with clutch throw.... Id imagine when the belts wear a little this will improve.
And axle adjuster bolts were already on my to do list and one of the many finishing touches i mentioned.
harry76
Well-Known Member
My clutch that i ordered for this bike but didnt use turned up today..... ill have to use it in future projects, i also need to save for a CVT for my Indian build.
I picked up a tank sealer today. I havent read the instructions but im guessing a few days dry time plus im guessing i need to wait to seal the tank AFTER i get my brass/copper petcock mount brazed or soldered to my tank because of the heating????? I may even attempt to do the brazing myself and buy the torch and solder etc....... except i really have never tried it before but would love to aquire the skill. So my tank may be a week or so off.... but i can use a mockup tank i have in the meantime.
Ill also do my "Whippet" build tank (Villiers/Atco tank) at the same time seeing they are both small tanks...
I picked up a tank sealer today. I havent read the instructions but im guessing a few days dry time plus im guessing i need to wait to seal the tank AFTER i get my brass/copper petcock mount brazed or soldered to my tank because of the heating????? I may even attempt to do the brazing myself and buy the torch and solder etc....... except i really have never tried it before but would love to aquire the skill. So my tank may be a week or so off.... but i can use a mockup tank i have in the meantime.
Ill also do my "Whippet" build tank (Villiers/Atco tank) at the same time seeing they are both small tanks...
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silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Harry,
I've not used their tank sealer, but have used their anti rusting process on a Suzuki Samurai a couple years back and it was very good stuff which did everything they said it would. I'll be interested in how this sealer works out.
Any more rides? Do you think the power of the engine is adequate?
SB
I've not used their tank sealer, but have used their anti rusting process on a Suzuki Samurai a couple years back and it was very good stuff which did everything they said it would. I'll be interested in how this sealer works out.
Any more rides? Do you think the power of the engine is adequate?
SB
harry76
Well-Known Member
I havent had a chance to do another ride. When i did a test run last night it wasnt running right. As i mentioned i couldnt kickstart it, and i need to lengthen my chain, so my only way to start it was running beside it, jumping on and bump starting it. So im not sure if i just didnt get it up to speed to properly fire or there is something else, either way i may just pull the motor out and run it on the stand again just to make sure. So i cant comment yet on whether the power is adequate.
I need to replace the small spring i lost from the kickstarter, any ideas? Watchrepairers?
I need to replace the small spring i lost from the kickstarter, any ideas? Watchrepairers?
rustycase
Gutter Rider
I'm SO glad you don't take my 'armchair advice' poorly, Harry... I only mean to offer suggestions based on my own experience... and there's a LOT of less than good ones I've been involved in!
That's a wonderful, sculpted, 'forged in place' dropout you have fused together there!!! LoL
I do like that sheave centrifugal clutch... certainly not as nice as the method you have fabricated, but I was planning on getting one... I just can't figger out why they get more for the sheave clutch than for the one's with a sprocket on them???
Sry Harry... I just don't agree with the 'rust patina' concept.
Basically, rust is a sign of degradation.
If it were controlled, such as in blueing a gun, it still needs to be oiled, on a regular basis. If you really want the old-timey effect, brush paint it with a red oxide paint...
If it won't get going, prob is most likely in the carb, or the spark..
Best
rc
That's a wonderful, sculpted, 'forged in place' dropout you have fused together there!!! LoL
I do like that sheave centrifugal clutch... certainly not as nice as the method you have fabricated, but I was planning on getting one... I just can't figger out why they get more for the sheave clutch than for the one's with a sprocket on them???
Sry Harry... I just don't agree with the 'rust patina' concept.
Basically, rust is a sign of degradation.
If it were controlled, such as in blueing a gun, it still needs to be oiled, on a regular basis. If you really want the old-timey effect, brush paint it with a red oxide paint...
If it won't get going, prob is most likely in the carb, or the spark..
Best
rc
harry76
Well-Known Member
I may try and have a look this afternoon, and ill hook up my pedal chain so i can get some real speed to bumpstart the engine. And i need to maybe buy a new throttle cable, as the one on the bike feels old and sloppy and no real feel for it.
And Rustycase, i always welcome any criticism. Im no expert and if ive done something wrong id appreciate someone pointing it out.
On the rust issue, its a pesonal taste thing i guess, i really doubt the rust (if kept oiled) will cause any structural damage. And red oxide doesnt go with the wheel color and hardly resembles rust does it?.... just makes it look like an unfinished hotrod...... If i were to change things i think the same color of the wheels, but done as an aged effect would look good i think....... I was thinking maybe keeping the bike rusty until im ready for a change then paint it...... I dunno
And Rustycase, i always welcome any criticism. Im no expert and if ive done something wrong id appreciate someone pointing it out.
On the rust issue, its a pesonal taste thing i guess, i really doubt the rust (if kept oiled) will cause any structural damage. And red oxide doesnt go with the wheel color and hardly resembles rust does it?.... just makes it look like an unfinished hotrod...... If i were to change things i think the same color of the wheels, but done as an aged effect would look good i think....... I was thinking maybe keeping the bike rusty until im ready for a change then paint it...... I dunno
harry76
Well-Known Member
Its winter here so unfortunately its nearly dark by the time i get home, so test rides are hard. When i got home from work i tried attaching my pedal chain, but i need a half link. Ill have to get one maybe tommorrow after work. And i found a spring small enough for the kickstart freewheel so ill try and get that sorted....
I took it out for a testrun on the street tonight, no pedal chain and no brakes (i really need to put them on). This time the motor definitely fired right up, its not running perfectly but its running ok.
Im a little confused..... heres what happened...... I have no pedal chain on, so i just pushed it up to speed and pushed the shifter FORWARD and it bump started. At first i thought i couldnt get it to rev when the shifter was FORWARD, and no real forward movement, but if i moved the shifter the revs would change. It took me a little while to work out what was going on, but it seems that when i push the shifter FORWARD to bumpstart, it tensions the primary belt (just like i thought it would). What confuses me is when the motor is running and i push FORWARD on the shifter the revs drop off and i dont really move but if i pull BACK on the shifter it does move forward (the opposite of what i thought would happen). Its like pushing FORWARD is actually causing the primary belt to slip, or maybe just too much load.
Remember this test was in the dark, so on Sunday when i will be able to test it i may get a better answer....
I did get the bike up to about 20mph and it was pretty cool just chugging along, i got to this speed by moving the shifter back and forward (almost like riding the clutch in too tall a gear) but the end of the road was coming and i only had my shoes for brakes. It certainly feels that when i release my clutch the motor is under strain ( i am around 95kg ). I may need to go over the motor as well.
Anyone know whats going on or how to fix it????
Is my primary belt the wrong size? Does my motor not have enough torque? Have i geared it wrong? Maybe when i attach my pedal chain and help the motor along things will be different?
I took it out for a testrun on the street tonight, no pedal chain and no brakes (i really need to put them on). This time the motor definitely fired right up, its not running perfectly but its running ok.
Im a little confused..... heres what happened...... I have no pedal chain on, so i just pushed it up to speed and pushed the shifter FORWARD and it bump started. At first i thought i couldnt get it to rev when the shifter was FORWARD, and no real forward movement, but if i moved the shifter the revs would change. It took me a little while to work out what was going on, but it seems that when i push the shifter FORWARD to bumpstart, it tensions the primary belt (just like i thought it would). What confuses me is when the motor is running and i push FORWARD on the shifter the revs drop off and i dont really move but if i pull BACK on the shifter it does move forward (the opposite of what i thought would happen). Its like pushing FORWARD is actually causing the primary belt to slip, or maybe just too much load.
Remember this test was in the dark, so on Sunday when i will be able to test it i may get a better answer....
I did get the bike up to about 20mph and it was pretty cool just chugging along, i got to this speed by moving the shifter back and forward (almost like riding the clutch in too tall a gear) but the end of the road was coming and i only had my shoes for brakes. It certainly feels that when i release my clutch the motor is under strain ( i am around 95kg ). I may need to go over the motor as well.
Anyone know whats going on or how to fix it????
Is my primary belt the wrong size? Does my motor not have enough torque? Have i geared it wrong? Maybe when i attach my pedal chain and help the motor along things will be different?
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harry76
Well-Known Member
I went for another run and realised at least part of the problem. It seems my primary belt has stretched a lot, probably from the heat of the belt slipping, and now the clutch arm cant put enough tension on the belt. I may need to go back and buy the same size but in a high quality belt (will they still stretch?) and maybe redesign my clutch arm.
On a positive note it is surprisingly very comfortable, and im 6 ft 3. So even if i need to pedal to help the motor, it wont be too bad (once i get my chain on). And im not fussed if i dont get much speed out of it. It felt real nice putting along listening to the nice sounding motor, a welcome change from the irritating, high revving, teeth chattering, vibrating chinese 2 stroke sound of my 66cc Kroon.
On a positive note it is surprisingly very comfortable, and im 6 ft 3. So even if i need to pedal to help the motor, it wont be too bad (once i get my chain on). And im not fussed if i dont get much speed out of it. It felt real nice putting along listening to the nice sounding motor, a welcome change from the irritating, high revving, teeth chattering, vibrating chinese 2 stroke sound of my 66cc Kroon.
harry76
Well-Known Member
I noticed another issue, and its worse now my belt has stretched, when my clutch is disengaged the top of the primary belt lifts up, and in doing so bites on the pulley, and doesnt always let it slip. I read about it in MSRFAN's thread for his bike. What he did (if i remember correctly) and i may need to do, is put a guide above the top of the primary belt to hold it down and allow it to slip.
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silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
I have no doubt that you'll get things sorted out, Harry. It sounds like the things which are not right are far outweighed by what is right. I'd like to have seen it chugging along. You're right about the Chinese 2 strokes... whiny girls with enough vibration to set your teeth on edge and give a nerve condition. If you're going to be speak up, then lower your voice.
We are at the peak of light here in the northern hemisphere and forget that you boys in the deep south of the planet are in the darkest phase of the year. We all know this and yet it is a stretch to remember. The bright side is you are over the hump and every day your light is on the increase... but we are on the long slide down even if it doesn't seem so. Looking forward to your Sunday report...
SB
We are at the peak of light here in the northern hemisphere and forget that you boys in the deep south of the planet are in the darkest phase of the year. We all know this and yet it is a stretch to remember. The bright side is you are over the hump and every day your light is on the increase... but we are on the long slide down even if it doesn't seem so. Looking forward to your Sunday report...
SB
harry76
Well-Known Member
Id have liked to see it chug along too, in fact it would have been nice to see the road lol. It may have to wait until Sunday for another test ride as im working tommorrow (saturday). But im happy with my test run (it ran and i got up to a nice enough speed) but need a lot of improvement, so no hurry. I still have plenty to do...... my tank lining, kickstarter, and definitely hook up my brakes. Its good that i need to make improvements, it will be all the more fullfilling when i do get it finally running right.
I think as a matter of course i should at least buy a new plug and redo the questionable ignition lead with some cloth covered wire i have, and possibly look at rebuilding and installing new rings and cleaning out the carb to eliminate these as possible causes.
I think as a matter of course i should at least buy a new plug and redo the questionable ignition lead with some cloth covered wire i have, and possibly look at rebuilding and installing new rings and cleaning out the carb to eliminate these as possible causes.
rustycase
Gutter Rider
Just got the chance to read your tale of the first good start, and run.
I suspect your overall gear ratio is too tall, Harry.
Probably expecting too much from the little engine.
20mph is actually a good clip for an engine with that hp, especially when it's not yet running properly.
Also, if the overall gear ratio was changed, to a slower top speed, there would be less slippage on a start, and the belts would not be getting cooked quite so much. My guess is that belts are expensive there, as they are here!
Harry, do you NEED brakes?
I've got many bicycle brakes here. I'll mail you some if you wish. Gratis.
Could send pics of what I have and you could make a selection from the lot.
I don't much care to hear abt you motoring off down the way, with no brakes, when I've got a bucket full of em here doing nothing.
Not a single one of em is antique, or even shiny or particularly desireable, but they would get you stopped!
Best
rc
I suspect your overall gear ratio is too tall, Harry.
Probably expecting too much from the little engine.
20mph is actually a good clip for an engine with that hp, especially when it's not yet running properly.
Also, if the overall gear ratio was changed, to a slower top speed, there would be less slippage on a start, and the belts would not be getting cooked quite so much. My guess is that belts are expensive there, as they are here!
Harry, do you NEED brakes?
I've got many bicycle brakes here. I'll mail you some if you wish. Gratis.
Could send pics of what I have and you could make a selection from the lot.
I don't much care to hear abt you motoring off down the way, with no brakes, when I've got a bucket full of em here doing nothing.
Not a single one of em is antique, or even shiny or particularly desireable, but they would get you stopped!
Best
rc