Pulled Over in Grant Florida

GoldenMotor.com

BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
7,194
21
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Maine
That answer is simple and inherent in the context of the discussion, the continued free flow and uninhibited exchange of information.
Is that not made available?




Encouraging the widespread usage of motorized bicycles is something we can agree on, yes?

What I would like to suggest is rather than furthering, even adding additional restrictions on the available means of alternative transportation for the masses based on only the actions of those that would disregard existing laws - simply enforcing what applicable laws that already exist.

If a license is required for a motorized bicycle, it's simply another reason for law-abiding people to not avail themselves of this means of transport while simultaneously failing to act as a deterrent for those that would and have violated the law... somewhat obviously.

If a license is required to operate a motorized bicycle, there's very little differentiation remaining between it and any other vehicle class, "might as well have a moped/scooter/motorcycle then" is a not uncommon response and one I find difficult to disagree with. The remainder would be those few that relish bicycles for their own sake yet have no aversion to motorization (somewhat rare given the interest group), those that appreciate building their own vehicle but may be somewhat limited in resources (else they'd build motorcycles etc.) and those that are interested in economy & conservation - realistically that last reason in particular is a debatable aspect when compared to scooters/mopeds.

Yet if the licensing restriction isn't present additional demographics can & do avail themselves of this means of transport - just not having a license doesn't immediately equate to a suspension or irresponsible behavior, for example I didn't bother getting a license until I was twenty four years old, simply because I lived in an densely populated & crime ridden urban center - so owning a car was an unnecessary liability and without a car, why bother with a license? Forced to use the somewhat unsavory, even dangerous public transportation due to the distance of my commute a motorized bicycle would have been an ideal option had I known of them, yet if a license were required I'd simply get a motorcycle (which is what I eventually did).

I also see very little reason why adolescents should be prohibited from using motorized bicycles simply because they're too young to have an automotive operator's license - if anything it's an ideal method to help instruct both the construction and the maintenance of a vehicle as well as familiarizing them with the responsibilities of owning and operating a motor vehicle, abet a very limited one.

There is even the possibility that although an individual's license was suspended - it my not be due to substance abuse and/or reckless, dangerous behavior. It varies from state to state, but somewhat ironically the penalty for driving w/an expired license or insurance tends to be suspension, as is suspension for driving on a suspension even if no other law is broken. This perpetuation of suspension may be inescapable if no other realistic means of transportation is available but there's an employment commitment, this is particularly problematic for those so destitute as to let their insurance lapse or their suspension perpetuate due to an inability to pay fines, again - a motorized bicycle may be a legal, economical alternative.

There are those that due to physical and/or mental disabilities are not permitted an operator's license yet are still willing and able to manage such a low speed, simple vehicle as a motorized bicycle/tricycle without endangering themselves or others, particularly considering the preformance limitations placed on motorized bicycles by many regions this could well be one the few demographics still interested.

There are even those that may have lost their license for reckless & irresponsible behavior - but may actually try to redeem themselves by no longer participating in such, yet still need some form of transport to remain or gain employment. Pedal bicycles are not always a viable choice due to distances/physical shortcomings/disabilities but a motorized bicycle may just suffice. If a license is required for even such a limited vehicle as a motorized bicycle, then they've no options, particularly with the distances involved in rural communities where public transportation is often unavailable.

So why hamper the utilization of motorized bicycles with the requirement of an automotive driver's license?

Again chronic offenders & substance abusers, those that disregard laws aren't likely to be dissuaded by such - but it can and does serve to discourage use by law abiding citizens, the end result is not only penalization of those that have done no wrong but discouraging the use of motorized bicycles by anyone other than those that would & have disregarded such laws anyway.
 
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Mike B

New Member
Mar 23, 2011
2,256
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0
Central CA
If an operator of a motorbike is found lacking a license to operate that vechicle, a citation should be issued for first offense.

On second offense, the bike is confiscated and impounded for the time that the license is unavailable. Opon a valid license, the owner can pay the impound fee and the property reclaimed.

If not the property is sold at auction.
 

Mike B

New Member
Mar 23, 2011
2,256
7
0
Central CA
Yup.

Doesn't it make you feel safer to see a guy so drunk his speach is slurred, get on a motorbike and head out into the night w/o any lights?

An accident waiting to happen. And he could run into you.

How'd you like to be driving down the road and see this guy flying over your roof? Yeah, he drove out right in front of you and it wasn't your fault. But he's dead and you killed him. Not your fault, but you are gonna see that guy over and over.

I have zero tolorance for drunks.

Even better, the next thing he is going to add is a shift kit so he can go much faster.

Speed is more important than safety. Especially when your drunk.

Yeah, licenses are a waste of time and only because the "man" wants our dough.

Right.
 
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Mike B

New Member
Mar 23, 2011
2,256
7
0
Central CA
Driving is a privlege, not a right. If you show yourself unworthy of the the privlege, it may be revoked.

Getting around the law on bicycles does serve the public in that the offender can do less damage, but yes, they're still gonna be out there.

Requiring a license for motorbikes means that offenders can be prosecuted. And like I said before, their property confiscated if necessary. This will impead repeat offenses.

People who have a demonstrated lack of responsibilty should not be doing things that require one to be responsible.
 
Sep 4, 2009
980
4
18
63
Texas
So if we take away the ability to drive a bicycle with a motor on it and a guy has to get to work and back to feed his family what do you think he's gonna do? Probably drive uninsured in a car without a license and hope he don't get caught. There are plenty out there who do it every day I say the dude trying to be legal riding a bicycle is making the better choice and giving him that option is a good thing.

To me the alternative means the guy looses his job turns to crime to feed his family possibly. Tickets for the most part IMO are just another way of taxing the people. Check out the Texas driver responsibility surcharge.
 

happyvalley

New Member
Jul 24, 2008
784
1
0
upper Pioneer Valley
Yup.

Doesn't it make you feel safer to see a guy so drunk his speach is slurred, get on a motorbike and head out into the night w/o any lights?

An accident waiting to happen. And he could run into you.

How'd you like to be driving down the road and see this guy flying over your roof? Yeah, he drove out right in front of you and it wasn't your fault. But he's dead and you killed him. Not your fault, but you are gonna see that guy over and over.

I have zero tolorance for drunks.

Even better, the next thing he is going to add is a shift kit so he can go much faster.

Speed is more important than safety. Especially when your drunk.

Yeah, licenses are a waste of time and only because the "man" wants our dough.

Right.
A bit uncanny but you just outlined a scenario that was very close to what actually happened 2 years this month, about a 1/2 mile away on the road where I live: 2 lane, country road, semi-rural with not much street lighting.

Young guy riding a HT powered motorized bicycle, license revoked, DUI, no lights, and riding on the wrong side of the road against oncoming traffic. Just all wrong, all wrong. Unfortunately, for everyone involved, right then there was a pedal cyclist coming at him, riding in the bike lane with the flow of traffic as he should be. The cyclist had lights also but the motored biker apparently did see him until it was too late, they swerved at the last second, the cyclist going bass over tea kettle to his right into the ditch, the motored guy out into the traffic lane crashing his bike. Bad for him was just then a car was passing, a 65 year old woman, and ran over the poor schmuck. No, he wasn't wearing a helmet. The chief in town is a friend and he told me later the accident report had the motored biker pegged doing about 35 mph.

He survived but was one very messed up dude, months in the hospital, and probably never be as he was before. Too bad but I think how the lives of the other two people have been effected also since that day, especially the older lady.
 
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Mike B

New Member
Mar 23, 2011
2,256
7
0
Central CA
Yup, and we all paid the hospital bills.

I don't care about the drunk's family, I care about my family.

I don't want these people on the road unless they are a passenger.
 

CroMagnum

Member
Sep 2, 2011
148
1
16
Los Angeles
Well, this thread got lively, didn't it?

First, let me explain my "elephant in the room" comment. You see, I just figured it out. And it only took about a year. Because no one was talking about it here. Several months ago there was even a newspaper article posted about how the innocent MB rider was getting prosecuted for operating without a license, and I didn't figure it out.

Keep in mind that I grew up in Los Angeles where EVERYONE has a driver's license. Here you run down to the DMV on you 16th birthday (not one day later!!) and get your license. And you keep it until the day you die.

And if you don't have a license, then something's wrong with you. The homeless guy who sleeps in the alley behind the dumpster? He still has a license. Charles Manson probably still has a valid license. So if you don't have one then you're obviously some sort of low-life criminal who committed some heinous offense or have some sort of bizarre medical problem that disqualifies you from operating anything more complicated than a door knob.

So once the light bulb came on I was a little taken aback. These are the retards I'm supposed to be siding with? Drunken morons who have no self control and continue to endanger the lives of everyone on the road due to their own selfishness and stupidity? I don't want to slap these people on the back, I want to kick them in the balls!! I want to take my Louisville Slugger and beat some sense into their skulls!! For being repeatedly and so outrageously stupid to get 3 or 4 DUIs part of your punishment should be you get to walk or take the bus. I'm not interested in helping these f***tards swap out one motor vehicle for another.

george_n_texas, sorry you had problems. But dumping them on public transportation is exactly the answer. And you worked for the bus line so, more than anyone else here, you should be very familiar with the psychotic junkie criminals who ride the bus. Back in college I had a girlfriend who didn't have a car (but she still had a license!!) and was forced to ride the bus. Every time I saw her she would say "bus people" and I knew exactly what she was dealing with. I gave her a Charter Arms .38 right away (it came in handy 3 times!) and quickly raised some money to help her out buying a well used Honda Civic. It was a P.O.S., but still way better than riding the bus.

So we dump these drunken idiots on the bus and let them deal with the bus people for a few years. What could be a better deterrent than that? Let them know that drinking and driving leads you right here. Gotta be more effective than AA.

BarelyAWake, I agree with you. I always think more freedom and less regulation is better, and I HATE the "Show me your papers!" attitude of LEOs. The problem with Florida is the laws are vague and contradictory. Now we can spend all day arguing what they mean, but that doesn't matter because we aren't the ones who decide. Unfortunately in circumstances like this we are subject to the judgement and opinions of law enforcement and the courts. And that rarely works in favor of the lowly citizen. The reason most laws are written so specifically is to avoid the abuse by government agents.

Then again we're talking about operating a motorized vehicle out in traffic with the general public. I'm thinking it may not be such a bad idea to keep children out of that mix and assure that everyone else has a good working knowledge of the rules of the road. And since you never legislate more freedom, probably the best Floridians can hope for is some sort of state recognition of non-electric motorized bicycles that will probably require a driver's license to operate.

The laws in California are far worse than this. We actually have to have motorcycle licenses, register motorized bicycles with a license plate, and have lights, horn, mirror, helmet, etc. Still, it's not that big of a deal compared to being able to tell the motorized bicycle-hating LEO who stopped to hassle you to go pound sand. Excuse me, officer, but I'm totally legal. Now don't you need to get back to the donut shop?
 
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RonB

New Member
Jan 30, 2011
82
0
0
Largo florida
Well, this thread got lively, didn't it?

First, let me explain my "elephant in the room" comment. You see, I just figured it out. And it only took about a year. Because no one was talking about it here. Several months ago there was even a newspaper article posted about how the innocent MB rider was getting prosecuted for operating without a license, and I didn't figure it out.

Keep in mind that I grew up in Los Angeles where EVERYONE has a driver's license. Here you run down to the DMV on you 16th birthday (not one day later!!) and get your license. And you keep it until the day you die.

And if you don't have a license, then something's wrong with you. The homeless guy who sleeps in the alley behind the dumpster? He still has a license. Charles Manson probably still has a valid license. So if you don't have one then you're obviously some sort of low-life criminal who committed some heinous offense or have some sort of bizarre medical problem that disqualifies you from operating anything more complicated than a door knob.

So once the light bulb came on I was a little taken aback. These are the retards I'm supposed to be siding with? Drunken morons who have no self control and continue to endanger the lives of everyone on the road due to their own selfishness and stupidity? I don't want to slap these people on the back, I want to kick them in the balls!! I want to take my Louisville Slugger and beat some sense into their skulls!! For being repeatedly and so outrageously stupid to get 3 or 4 DUIs part of your punishment should be you get to walk or take the bus. I'm not interested in helping these f***tards swap out one motor vehicle for another.

george_n_texas, sorry you had problems. But dumping them on public transportation is exactly the answer. And you worked for the bus line so, more than anyone else here, you should be very familiar with the psychotic junkie criminals who ride the bus. Back in college I had a girlfriend who didn't have a car (but she still had a license!!) and was forced to ride the bus. Every time I saw her she would say "bus people" and I knew exactly what she was dealing with. I gave her a Charter Arms .38 right away (it came in handy 3 times!) and quickly raised some money to help her out buying a well used Honda Civic. It was a P.O.S., but still way better than riding the bus.

So we dump these drunken idiots on the bus and let them deal with the bus people for a few years. What could be a better deterrent than that? Let them know that drinking and driving leads you right here. Gotta be more effective than AA.

BarelyAWake, I agree with you. I always think more freedom and less regulation is better, and I HATE the "Show me your papers!" attitude of LEOs. The problem with Florida is the laws are vague and contradictory. Now we can spend all day arguing what they mean, but that doesn't matter because we aren't the ones who decide. Unfortunately in circumstances like this we are subject to the judgement and opinions of law enforcement and the courts. And that rarely works in favor of the lowly citizen. The reason most laws are written so specifically is to avoid the abuse by government agents.

Then again we're talking about operating a motorized vehicle out in traffic with the general public. I'm thinking it may not be such a bad idea to keep children out of that mix and assure that everyone else has a good working knowledge of the rules of the road. And since you never legislate more freedom, probably the best Floridians can hope for is some sort of state recognition of non-electric MABs that will probably require a driver's license to operate.

The laws in California are far worse than this. We actually have to have motorcycle licenses, register MABs with a license plate, and have lights, horn, mirror, helmet, etc. Still, it's not that big of a deal compared to being able to tell the motorized bicycle-hating LEO who stopped to hassle you to go pound sand. Excuse me, officer, but I'm totally legal. Now don't you need to get back to the donut shop?
I just had to respond to this as obviously you don`t know everything like you let on? just fyi some people cannot get a license due to medical reasons!
 

RonB

New Member
Jan 30, 2011
82
0
0
Largo florida
Re: Going to court next week" 4/26/12

Just keeping you all up to date! I went to the pre trial hearing today and the case was continued until July 31st. The prosecutor new nothing about the case and wanted my lawyer to get in contact with her at a later date? My lawyer will discus it with them in about a couple of weeks, he says it would be ridiculous for the prosecutor to bring this case to trial ! meanwhile I continue to ride daily" but I do carry a copy of that DMV document james provided us with!
Well in case any of you are interested this case is still going on! i went back to court today with my attorney only to have it continued again until August 25th. due to the fact that the prosecuting attorney found another job and the replacement had no knowledge of what the previous prosecutor and my attorney had discussed? Last month the case was re-scheduled until today without having to go to court as I was told by my attorney. (you will get a kick out this) the prosecutor did not tell the judge about the arrangements so next thing i know I had a warrant out for me, yup! was notified of it by mail 6 days later (also a notice from the DMV stating my license has been suspended) HA" And wouldn't you know the prosecutor goes on vacation the next week and unavailable to be reached! so i had to lie low for two weeks. I will likely drop dead before i get satisfaction from this???
 

JonnyR

New Member
May 13, 2012
1,203
1
0
37
ronkonkoma, new york
Well, this thread got lively, didn't it?

First, let me explain my "elephant in the room" comment. You see, I just figured it out. And it only took about a year. Because no one was talking about it here. Several months ago there was even a newspaper article posted about how the innocent MB rider was getting prosecuted for operating without a license, and I didn't figure it out.

Keep in mind that I grew up in Los Angeles where EVERYONE has a driver's license. Here you run down to the DMV on you 16th birthday (not one day later!!) and get your license. And you keep it until the day you die.

And if you don't have a license, then something's wrong with you. The homeless guy who sleeps in the alley behind the dumpster? He still has a license. Charles Manson probably still has a valid license. So if you don't have one then you're obviously some sort of low-life criminal who committed some heinous offense or have some sort of bizarre medical problem that disqualifies you from operating anything more complicated than a door knob.

So once the light bulb came on I was a little taken aback. These are the retards I'm supposed to be siding with? Drunken morons who have no self control and continue to endanger the lives of everyone on the road due to their own selfishness and stupidity? I don't want to slap these people on the back, I want to kick them in the balls!! I want to take my Louisville Slugger and beat some sense into their skulls!! For being repeatedly and so outrageously stupid to get 3 or 4 DUIs part of your punishment should be you get to walk or take the bus. I'm not interested in helping these f***tards swap out one motor vehicle for another.

george_n_texas, sorry you had problems. But dumping them on public transportation is exactly the answer. And you worked for the bus line so, more than anyone else here, you should be very familiar with the psychotic junkie criminals who ride the bus. Back in college I had a girlfriend who didn't have a car (but she still had a license!!) and was forced to ride the bus. Every time I saw her she would say "bus people" and I knew exactly what she was dealing with. I gave her a Charter Arms .38 right away (it came in handy 3 times!) and quickly raised some money to help her out buying a well used Honda Civic. It was a P.O.S., but still way better than riding the bus.

So we dump these drunken idiots on the bus and let them deal with the bus people for a few years. What could be a better deterrent than that? Let them know that drinking and driving leads you right here. Gotta be more effective than AA.

BarelyAWake, I agree with you. I always think more freedom and less regulation is better, and I HATE the "Show me your papers!" attitude of LEOs. The problem with Florida is the laws are vague and contradictory. Now we can spend all day arguing what they mean, but that doesn't matter because we aren't the ones who decide. Unfortunately in circumstances like this we are subject to the judgement and opinions of law enforcement and the courts. And that rarely works in favor of the lowly citizen. The reason most laws are written so specifically is to avoid the abuse by government agents.

Then again we're talking about operating a motorized vehicle out in traffic with the general public. I'm thinking it may not be such a bad idea to keep children out of that mix and assure that everyone else has a good working knowledge of the rules of the road. And since you never legislate more freedom, probably the best Floridians can hope for is some sort of state recognition of non-electric MABs that will probably require a driver's license to operate.

The laws in California are far worse than this. We actually have to have motorcycle licenses, register motorized bicycles with a license plate, and have lights, horn, mirror, helmet, etc. Still, it's not that big of a deal compared to being able to tell the motorized bicycle-hating LEO who stopped to hassle you to go pound sand. Excuse me, officer, but I'm totally legal. Now don't you need to get back to the donut shop?

here in new york its zero tolerance for DWI they take your licence for 6months to a year and put you on probation for as long as they like making you do classes and all sorts of stupid things im currently in the middle of it its going to cost me something like $10,000 to get my licence backincluding everything and all i did was drink to much one night and try to go to 7/11(stupid idea but i was drunk).
 

miked826

New Member
Aug 6, 2011
1,748
7
0
Los Angeles
I got pulled over here in Tucson for going 22 or 23mph I dont remember. We have a speed limit of 20mph. But check this out: I had no chain!! My chain tensioner had broke off so I removed the link so I could pedal home. The cop said it doesnt matter if I am pedaling or under engine power, my bike is a motorized bike so even if I pedal I have to stay under 20mph.
He did not give me a ticket, just told me to stay under 20mph. Now is that stupid or what? The way I see it, if I'm pedaling its a bicycle, if I'm using my motor, its a motorized bike. I guess they dont see it that way.
Dude you pulled over for speeding 2 mph over the posted speed limit on a bike. He gave you a ticket because he saw the engine bolted to your bike and he was saw a chance to make you pay for your evil MB ways. Must have been a low crime day or he had a ticket quota to meet. LOL
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
5
0
Left coast
RonB,

Basically, what you should do, if you are called into court again, is inform the administrative clerk that you wish to have the matter dismissed in the interest of justice, because it has not been heard in a timely manner.

They will likely grant your motion so they don't have to make a decision on the matter.

It's a tactic they use so no one sitting on the bench has to go on record as making a decision that something detrimental to the tax collection scheme is actually valid.

Seen it before...

If everyone entered a plea of Not Guilty, and requested a court trial, it would take all the profit out of the traffic ticket system.

Good luck
rc

xct2
 

RonB

New Member
Jan 30, 2011
82
0
0
Largo florida
Went to court again today with the intent to push this thing forward!! or drop the case! district attorney refused to do either and has re-scheduled it yet again for January 10th. my attorney says their is no time limit on resolving this! he claims because of the DUI`s which take up 90% of the courts time ,my no license charge just keeps getting pushed aside . on the bright side I have noticed the local police do not seem to be focusing on Motorized bikes now like they were last spring as i road past 2 and even along side one cruiser just this morning with out incident, can`t say what could be the cause of that other than maybe they just might have learned something about Motorized bike laws? only they know i guess?