Ontario Canada, MTO info

[Rockenstein]

Be nice if Ontario had a similar thing on the books but then again it don't really matter because the popular china girl engine kit builds miss even the Alberta rules on four points...

1 - Cubic Centimeters (unless it's a 49cc kit)

2 - Clutch

3 - gearbox

4 - Speed

.

 

[Clotho]

Be nice if Ontario had a similar thing on the books but then again it don't really matter because the popular china girl engine kit builds miss even the Alberta rules on four points...

1 - Cubic Centimeters (unless it's a 49cc kit)

2 - Clutch

3 - gearbox

4 - Speed

.

?

1) a 49 cc HT is <50cc
2) a centrifugal clutch with a pullstart is an option on the HT
3) HT's do not have gearboxes.
4) I don't know about you but my 49cc HT (green and black bike not the Felt) tops out at about 35km and it takes forever to get there if I don't pedal. Maybe it is the altitude here. The bike would be faster at sea level.

 

[Rockenstein]

Clotho no disrespect but with any of the centrifugal clutch kits on the market added to a HT you still have the stock manual clutch in the system. With the Zoom centrifugal clutch kit that I have the stock manual clutch must be used for starting (unless I add a pull start kit) and also when I shut down the engine I have to disengage the manual clutch or I won't be pedaling very far. All Happy Time's do have a 4:1 reduction gearbox transferring power to the driven wheel, without serious design alterations there is no way we'll ever get around that I'm afraid. IMHO 35 km\h on your 49cc is a safe speed on well maintained roads, hope you still wear a helmet though and use your hand signals etc etc. My Tsunami 80 will easily hit 45 km\h over a distance of about 500 meters but I never go much beyond 30-35 km\h...I feel safe at those speeds and this is where my engine is smoothest as well. When I ride I always wear my helmet which has a rear view mirror attached to it, padded leather palm cycling gloves, full coverage shoes, eye protection etc and I follow the rules of the road for Ontario cyclists to a T for my own safety and to set an example of how we can co exist safely with regular vehicular traffic. I tend to think the Alberta rules were developed with the friction drive kits in mind...hence maybe why they have a picture of what appears to be a rack mounted friction drive bike shown. It's sucky that lawmakers zone in on a particular design when it comes to certain things but then again as educated as the lawmakers in any of our provinces are it would be tough to be up to speed on everything that comes on the market these days.

Cheers and ride safe friend


PS: Was just looking at your Felt...very nice build! Some nice country roads to cruise the day away on out your way it appears too.

 

[Clotho]

No disrespect taken or intended.

You will be happy to know that I ride in a safe manner and follow the rules of the road. I am the only bicycle rider on the road that understands the use of hand signals it seems. I tend to wear the leather jacket even on hot days and a helmet is a must.

I don't know which kit you have but I have seen ht's with the centrifugal clutch and a pull start that didn't have the clutch lever installed. If you don't install the clutch lever the problem is solved, no more clutch. Do you have to use it when you pull up at a light? If not than the more accurate term for it in this application is engagement lever. On the 4 stroke kits they call this the engager and it performs exactly the same function. It isn't called a clutch because it has a centrifugal clutch performing that operation.

You really seem to be going out of your way to split hairs here. I think we can be pretty confident that that the author was using the term gearbox in the context of a transmission. They simply don't want a powered bike to have more than one gear. The internal operations of the engine (reduction gear) are outside their scope of interest.

The reason for the no clutch is pretty simple. A powered bicycle has a very low age restriction and they want the operation of the bike to be as simple as possible. They also do not want anything to interfere with the riders ability to use hand signals.

The CC limitation and speed over time restriction is straightforward as well. The bike should be tame enough for that same young rider to be able to handle it.

If you ride your bike in a responsible manner and follow the rules of the road you will not have any problems.

P.S. Thank you for your compliment on my Felt! I love to ride that bike in the country.

 

[fasteddy]

In Canada we still tend to use very British terms. In Britian a transmisson is called a gear box which it is. A gear shifter is called is called a gear selector again just what it is.

Since you have the misfortune to still live in Ontario you are stuck with the terms.

Free yourself from the drudgery and move West

Steve. {a free man since 1979}

 

[Rockenstein]

I don't know which kit you have but I have seen ht's with the centrifugal clutch and a pull start that didn't have the clutch lever installed. If you don't install the clutch lever the problem is solved, no more clutch. Do you have to use it when you pull up at a light? If not than the more accurate term for it in this application is engagement lever.

I have a Tsunami 80 which is just a run of the mill HT and I've fitted it with Zoom's centrifugal clutch kit. I don't need to use the stock friction plate clutch when I stop...it's used only when starting the engine, shutting down or coasting\pedaling faster than the engine is running if it's running. The Zoom clutch has a roller clutch bearing in it...I explained it's operation better in another thread here. Fasteddy is correct, lots of British terminology in our laws Canada wide but I suppose it makes sense seeing as how our legal systems are based on centuries old British common law.

If you ride your bike in a responsible manner and follow the rules of the road you will not have any problems

Yea that's pretty much my logic...and I think it's very important we all set a good example because if we don't we'll get outlawed just as fast as the kids terrorizing the streets with pocket bikes were a couple years back.

Since you have the misfortune to still live in Onario you are stuck with the terms.

Free yourself from the drudgery and move West

If it was just me I'd be in BC in a heartbeat so I could see the pacific ocean and the mountains but I have a 7 member family. Uprooting them all from jobs, school, friends, relatives etc etc would not be something that would go over very well at all...lol


Cheers guys and have a great long weekend

.

 

[fasteddy]

Rockenstein. What a shame. As the sun went down today I faced East and hoisted a pint to you. God Bless.
What part of the old sod?
I was born in Windsor, Lived T.O, Collingwood,Thornbury,Cooksville, Norland, Schomberg. Mostly T.O.

Steve.

 

[Mike Hunt]

i recall someone posted a link to an online petition to legalize mb's in ontario... i signed it, but is there any hope that it will actually get looked at and considered by the government officials?

 

[CDNBiker]

My plan...I'm building an e-bike that has a on board gas engine/generator. When the batteries die you fire up the gas motor/generator but power to the wheels is still provided by the electric drive motor. Exact same concept as the upcoming Chevy Volt but I will have my creation on the road before GM does and it will probably cost about $45,000.00 less and will get much better mileage. Since the gas engine is not "mechanically" connected to the wheels it is not a "moped" in the eyes of the law...though I am sure I will end up in court at some point proving it!

 

[fasteddy]

Hey T.O.,you may have a problem with that set up. It's illegal here in B.C. and if you can't here, there isn't much chance you can there.

Steve.

 

[Clotho]

My plan...I'm building an e-bike that has a on board gas engine/generator. When the batteries die you fire up the gas motor/generator but power to the wheels is still provided by the electric drive motor. Exact same concept as the upcoming Chevy Volt but I will have my creation on the road before GM does and it will probably cost about $45,000.00 less and will get much better mileage. Since the gas engine is not "mechanically" connected to the wheels it is not a "moped" in the eyes of the law...though I am sure I will end up in court at some point proving it!

Hi CDNBiker. What you are proposing is called a series coupled tribrid and it is what I have been working on. You can see more about it here. Tribrid Bike Current Project Please note that the current design is only for proof of concept. I really don't care for rack mounts much. They are much too ugly.

There is still a great deal of work to be done with regards to charging technology and battery chemistry.

 

[CDNBiker]

Hi CDNBiker. What you are proposing is called a series coupled tribrid and it is what I have been working on. You can see more about it here. Tribrid Bike Current Project Please note that the current design is only for proof of concept. I really don't care for rack mounts much. They are much too ugly.

There is still a great deal of work to be done with regards to charging technology and battery chemistry.

Hi Clotho
We are on a similar mission. I have the frame of a '74 Caddy Moped and the front forks of a '66 Solex moped I plan to use. I'm going with a hub drive motor & batteries and am hoping to mount the Generator/Gas Motor assembly above the front wheel as in the original Solex configuration. I am building my own 24V engine/generator which I am experimenting with now - It needs to be compact and light weight as possible but powerful enough to power the bike. I think this project will be a challenge but I don't give up too easily!

 

[toytime]

Well, I just had my second bike taken by the cops along with a "no insurance" and "drive under suspension" charges. Same cop, by the way. This time I lost my $600 Honda rack mount. I loved that bike!
I give up........I am working out a plan with the ministry to pay them $100 each month to get my license back and will get a real motorcycle.

 

[Rockenstein]

Not good news toytime and IMHO it's BS. Was it the OPP or KLPS that stopped you and stole your bicycle? Hope you have asked for it back and stand firm on the fact that insurance and a drivers licence is not a requirement for operating bicycles in Ontario, modified or not, so says the MTO.

 

[Mopedamauter79]

I got stopped only once by a cop and even then it took him a good 30 minutes to ticket me. He couldn't figure how to ticket me. In the end if I had lights on the bike and working with front and back brakes with a helmet the police should leave you alone. I have crossed paths with police a few times but it was me leaving private property or just coming on to. I get 2 recations from them usally. They either don't care or there curios to why my mountain bike sounds like a lawnmower as they have never seen anything like it before.

I'm tempted to take the thing down to a local police station and see if I can't get something on paper stating that it's ok to ride or just to see what they think of it..

 

[Mike Hunt]

the ebike pilot project is over in october if i recall correctly. do you guys know if the issue of mb's is gonna be discussed as well, and if its not then when?

 

[Rockenstein]

Bill 126, Road Safety Act, 2009 received royal assent in April of this year effectively ending the ebike pilot project and writing power assisted bicycles into Ontario's laws. There is nothing mentioned in bill 126 about typical pedal bicycles modified by the owner to accommodate electric or gasoline engine kits that can be purchased at various locations in Ontario. Bill 126 for all intents and purposes only speaks of ...how would you say... "factory built" power\motor assisted bicycles that conform to the federal regulations as defined in the Canadian MVSA.

Legislative Assembly of Ontario | Bills & Lawmaking | Current Parliament | Bill 126, Road Safety Act, 2009


In the explanatory notes section of the link above the following is mentioned...

"The definition of "bicycle" is amended to include power-assisted bicycles, which are themselves defined. A power-assisted bicycle is a bicycle with a power assist, as defined in federal regulations, but it must still be capable of being propelled solely by muscular power. Section 38 of the Act, which prohibits persons under 16 from driving a motor-assisted bicycle, is amended to apply to power-assisted bicycles as well. Sections 62 and 64 are amended to address the requirements respecting lights, reflectors and lamps for power-assisted bicycles. New section 103.1 provides for regulations establishing additional equipment requirements and other requirements and standards for power-assisted bicycles. New section 103.1 also requires a person to wear a motorcycle helmet or bicycle helmet while driving a power-assisted bicycle."

 

[Nicholas Marker]

Anyone knows laws in Quebec? They are usually similar to the ones in Ontario since we are close neighbour....

Thanks

 

[Rockenstein]

Started a Quebec thread for you Nicholas. Maybe we should have separate thread dealing with the rules and regs of operating a modified bicycle in each of the Canadian provinces since we appear to be seeing many new Canadian members lately.

http://motorbicycling.com/f17/canada-quebec-highway-safety-code-11277.html


Cheers...

 

[Mopedamauter79]

Ok guys I FINALLY got a personallized reply from MTO on these things rather then some canned reply.