Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Thanks Pete superlatives are nice & your builds have certainly earned well deserved praise from our members.

The Honda solo seems a natural for the 125cc Lifan and, as I've previously posted, it's proven to be a good engine for use on several of my off road go cart builds. These were beat to death by two boys and one quite immature old guy. The Lifan electricals don't like water so sealant is recommended along with an enclosure located well above the waterline. Scuppers and bilge added for really nasty puddles perhaps.

Work on the three bikes I chose to electrify has been an educational experience and I'm now quite the fan yet still learning.

The hybrid began as a solution to two defined weaknesses discovered during my moto-cycle riding experience on the China girl builds. First was the lack of acceleration from dead stops in traffic or starts on steep uphill inclines and secondly just starting the motor without pedaling especially from the occasional engine stalls in traffic. With the e-hub these are now non factors during rides. These problems solved my eyes were opened to the improved riding experience of the gas and electric motors working in sync. My somewhat high strung and high geared gas motor is now a pleasure to ride at low speeds aided as it is by the electric. Neither motor working hard at not only low speed but through the mid-range as well. Mileage is greatly improved on both power sources as well...battery range is extended as if the e-hub were being pedal assisted by a world class set of biker legs! Zero to thirty using both motors is very impressive. Maybe this explanation helps answers the" Why build a hybrid?" of some. I'd think neither engine type is mutually exclusive. It needn't be a matter of either/ or and occasionally perhaps the solution arrived at could be both.

The side car idea has been a shorebird hung 'round my neck for several years now & has developed a bit of stench during the delay. I'd like to cross the side hack off my bucket list and enjoy it's attachment to the Simplex rather than my scrawny self. I do have a couple of alterations of design in mind. After my somewhat "organized withdrawal" perhaps an all out assault might raise the spirits and recover the momentum.

Rick C.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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I sorted out the front brake lines after supper & ended up mounting a different caliper adapter as well. I'm still waiting for ten of the longer rear brake cables to come in. I received fifty feet of lined sheath Saturday, both should last me awhile.

Rick C.
 

MotoMagz

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Aug 2, 2010
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I sorted out the front brake lines after supper & ended up mounting a different caliper adapter as well. I'm still waiting for ten of the longer rear brake cables to come in. I received fifty feet of lined sheath Saturday, both should last me awhile.

Rick C.
50ft should last you a little while! I ordered 50ft of liner because of the way the ebay ad was written I got liner only.. lol. What rear cable did you get ? Tandem?
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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@ indian22 that is one sweet build. How did you mount the disk on the other side?
Thanks Wayne that rear disc was made possible through my purchase of a billet aluminum hub with sealed bearings and steel wheel with 12 ga. stainless spokes. I just bolted it in place (well 'kinda) and with the new Maxxi Holy roller and Avid Caliper (cable pull) with dual pull brake lever and my wallet $350. lighter. Now I've a disk brake on the rear right side, almost painlessly. Correct?

This won't be the last time I use this exact hub on my bikes front and rear. My Simplex will be next and it gets 10 gauge, DOT rims and billets hubs front and rear. The hub was a great addition to my extended frame hybrid.

Rick C


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billet hub 3.jpg
 

indian22

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Peashooter 14.5hp.jpg
Simplex 12.5 hp.jpg
What happened to the Lifan that somebody was going to tune for you? I'd like to see how they got on with it. Ours came in at over 14hp at the back wheel on a slightly pessimistic/realistic dyno.
Lugwig I've mentioned the two Lifan's outputs in scattered posts, but don't think I've been very specific on the engine that eventually found it's home in my 145lb. Harley "Peashooter" build.

Mr. "Grumpy" was the motor guy on both the Lifan's 125cc engines the one used in the Simplex makes 12hp plus in the 6,250 rpm range and the Harley mid to low 14 at mid 7,000 rpm. Both engines will crank to insane rpm levels but are not doing anything much after 9k by the seat of my pants. Grumpy's small engine dyno limits out at 30hp or so, but is quite accurate between 5 and 20 hp. I've learned not to ask him anything specific and that loosens his tongue to relate a little. His nickname is actually quite flattering as he's a real bastank through & through!

Your motor output was probably pretty accurate Ludwig. The cam and valve work on the Simplex was mild and low end tractability is still excellent pulls easily from dead stops from second to give you an idea and is a joy to ride at all speeds.

The Harley isn't. Going for a couple more hp came with a cost. It's high strung as heck, but really fun when she comes up on cam and being a real light weight, compared to the light motorcycles she was designed for, speed on cam even in third hole is significant. I've topped 80mph several times, after break in, during brief run ups at the air strip in fourth. The bike tracks well on this smooth surface, but I'd want a steering stabilizer mounted for use on public roads at highway speeds. I seldom ride the Harley because of this tune, but that's ok; it was built as a tribute to a real racer and my bike's performance is a tribute of sorts as well. I could gain some daily transport utility with the HD by switching to a 54 tooth final, which I have on the shelf, but probably won't. So there's that!

Cams lumpy as heck on the HD but the Simplex grind is quite mild, Grumps is an engine master but slow and seldom takes on any work of any type. He shuns using parts he didn't design or modify to his purpose and what he builds is what you're stuck with. The good news is his motors always seems to work, 'cause your not getting any money back!

Ludwig that's about the extent of my insights, engine wise, to these two 125cc 5 speeds. I'm glad I chose them and pleased with how they perform though each displays distinct personalities. My use of fake heads and side pushrod tubes on the Harley accent it's nature as "Grumpy's Toy" (different Grumpy however).

Rick C.
 
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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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50ft should last you a little while! I ordered 50ft of liner because of the way the ebay ad was written I got liner only.. lol. What rear cable did you get ? Tandem?
Shimano lined sheath and stainless cables, no particular reason but it's what I've used in the past with the only problem being UV deterioration of sheath over time and one cable being 6" shorter than it's supposedly matched sheath. No wise cracks about short cable please!

Rick C.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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I took a ride this morning on the hybrid and discovered a vibration that first becomes noticeable at around thirty five mph and up...I didn't take it much higher than forty before backing off to check fasteners etc. nothing apparently wrong, but obviously there is. It's not as though it's a something that's about to fall off or an about to blow up sound/sensation. More like a harmonic resonating through the frame. It wasn't doing this until I changed tires out so I'ma be ck'n and back tracking my changes to the tires and fork, though the vibes seem to be originating from the rear of the bike; in truth they could be emanating from anywhere. If it were on a car I'd think it to be a sheet metal problem & on this bike it could be the, rear rack, exhaust or battery pack, but it wasn't a problem before the work on tires and fork, so there I'll start. Everything sounds and feels perfect up to the 35mph speed. I'll run the speed up higher and see if the vibe goes away as I would expect a harmonic to do, but either way this is something that will need be fixed! I'll take the GPS info on the next ride for precise speed points. I'll also run up speed going down an incline with modest power applied and then coasting with engines off and see if things change.

Still no battery in hand and running short on time with basic things left to sort out.

Rick C.
 

indian22

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The 2 stroke, 4 stroke argument will never be solved. I have both and love them dearly.
So do I, Saddle tramp and add electric to my likes as well. Currently I've three two cycles, two four strokes, two electrics and one hybrid combination gas (2 stroke) with electric hub. All are built with pedals that are function.

No hater here! So no ones arguing.

Rick C.
 

indian22

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I'm pleased about the way the engines turned out. You can understand how we fought off the ohc boys now, it put some noses out of joint, which is always a plus.

And yes, there's no point in going for high rpm, we ran out of acceleration after 9, but it got there "with commendable vigour".
Thanks Ludwig for the comment and the info plus encouragement you supplied during the Simplex build. It was and is much appreciated. I know both these engines rev past 10 k easily, but really don't know what is redline, but I've settled on 9,000 as a reasonable safe limit. I short shift the Simplex but the HD likes to have the revs rolling in to each shift. I do use the clutch to change gears up and down, as you once recommended I recall. I converted both transmissions to hand lever shifting so I'd not be tempted to bang through the gears with the foot lever.

Rick C.
 

Ludwig II

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Jul 17, 2012
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We know the motor with standard valves will go to 10k safely, but since nothing worthwhile happened after 9250, we didn't bother exploring valve train safety either. The race engine still exists, but has been taken out of the frame in order to fit an XR cam XL125. The bike will be half disguised so it looks like a Triumph Tiger Cub. I must ask JC how that's progressing.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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We know the motor with standard valves will go to 10k safely, but since nothing worthwhile happened after 9250, we didn't bother exploring valve train safety either. The race engine still exists, but has been taken out of the frame in order to fit an XR cam XL125. The bike will be half disguised so it looks like a Triumph Tiger Cub. I must ask JC how that's progressing.
Lugwig you mirror my thoughts on these engines and rpm and I've had my expensive lessons with push rod engines and pressing the rpm envelope out of curiosity.

Tiger Cub is quite a nice look! I'd fancy that one myself. Photos perhaps?

Rick C.
 
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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Post office says my custom lithium battery pack is two days out and my heavy duty electrical plugs to match up with the existing wiring on the Hybrid came in yesterday so it's just plug and play once the battery box is complete. I just hope the completed battery is within the dimensions I specified. Thickness cannot be more than 3"...though I've quite a bit of wiggle room on length and width. Rack mount for the extra battery is probable given the short time I've left to get everything in order and tested. I've just ten days to have the bike,kit and myself sorted for our ride.



Rick C.