Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[indian22]

Back to the Grubee hybrid with major mods of 4" frame extension, saddle shock/spring and new billet sealed roller bearing hub with 36 tooth sprocket/14 tooth freewheel and 203mm rotor disk brake hub integral mounts, half inch axle, stainless 10 gauge, 36 spokes mated to 26" steel powder coated wheels. hope to have it "proven" rideable before my long range Fall adventure ride to which I'm committed. I'll probably mount Maxxis "Holy Roller" gravel tires for the sections of unpaved roads that I often encounter.

I'm farming the work out so time frame is always iffy on machine work and wheel lace. Promises made and money changed hands so a deals a deal....

Riding my long wheelbase Simplex with the air ride saddle has convinced me that I can survive the long rode trip on the hardtail, no suspension rat bastard Grubee hybrid only if I make these necessary changes. Riding over 100 miles daily for a week long adventure will be taxing on MY seventy year plus frame and the Grubee. With the mods I feel both myself and the hybrid can make it.

I'm hoping for quick delivery of the completed wheel assembly yet realistically don't expect it. Quality I will demand however...

The Grubee hybrid is a certified money pit and that's fact! Yet I'm still having fun.

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

Sounds good Rick where are you going to extend the frame? Really sounds like fun, and a long trip, is that out and back or all one way?............Curt

 

[indian22]

G'morning Curt.

It's a round trip total exact route & distance yet to be determined by committee not just me, lol. Mini Cannonball run of a hearty few and I'm looking forward to the ride...should be fun!

The Grubee's aluminum frame will remain intact, but extensions are to be added to the rear axle drops...bolt on. Jeff Wolf extended one of his super electric builds in similar fashion and the Schwinn OCC guys do it all the time for their adult sized motorized chopper creations that I really like but will never build. I especially like the bolt on extension concept for aluminum frame bikes & frames that feature the vertical drops that are mostly used in multi speed cassette frames with chain tensioners. These vertical style axle drops are pains in the tail on single speed pedal bikes if you don't add a spring loaded chain tensioner & pretty much suck for motorized 2 chain applications. The Grubee has a horizontal drop that a re-enforced extension drop plate can be secured to for primary strength. When completed I should gain 3.5" to 4.5" of wheel base depending on final axle bolt down location. Of course I'll mill a horizontal axle drop with adjusters.

The exact design of the extensions can be quite different depending on the original frame design & the motorized bikes requirements. The extensions can be used to actually add strength to the chain and seat stays, for example, or somewhat oversized to allow locations for bike accessory bolt on... adjusters, rack or trailer hitch come to mind.

I'm just borrowing from others inspiration to improve my hybrid. Thanks to those who innovate!

Rick C.

 

[4izzy]

Welcome to the forum 4izzy!

Plug reading is important for sure, this plug is certainly a new one. I'll ask a few questions. Has the engine been thoroughly broken in, two or three tanks of break in mix fuel, minimum? If so are you now running a 32:1 mix of oil to gas? If the bike was broken in was it running good, bad, about like it is now...before you changed plugs? How long did you ride the bike before reading the plug?

The plug looks too fresh to read with much understanding, but if you put some miles on this plug I'd say you need a bit more oil in the mix. I'd suggest running the plug just as it is for a few days of mixed riding, don't force the high speed if this is a relatively new motor, just run it up and down the full power range until you hit that resistance and back off to cruise speed. Repeat this several times each ride at some point you should feel this hesitancy give way. Then read the plug again. I like to see a pink color on the insulator, no fouling gummy look, electrode dark..not really wet but trending that way, no signs of burning or fouling.

Good photos.

Rick C.[/QUOTE...Yes..thanks for the reply..I got a bike phone holder to check speed ..and it wont pass 20mph!thats when it starts to hold back I've road it across town about a 15min drive and 15 mins back..around the block, store..38 tooth sprocket,throttle low and mid fine but the full throttle is what's frustrating me..i kno she got more in her!...did 16:1 one time due to the second time it was going lean or something and the gas was sucked up quickly..then changed to 20:1mix..still on..since I've put jet #75 it finally idles better and bike barely gets hot as it used to.. Not sure if I should try jets 71-74..I took the plug out and took more pics from the run across town and around the block..and I weigh 220lb

 

[indian22]

4izzy try removing the air cleaner and see how the bike runs on the 20:1 mix ratio, which is thick as mud even for motor break in and I'm kinda' surprised it runs 20 mph with that mix. The plugs just look too fresh to be running rich & oily with 70 jet and 20:1 mix ratio. Is the bike 4 stroking at lower speed?



Rick C.

 

[indian22]

So in the spirit of long trail survival I plan to add a suspension fork into the mix of new hub, wheel with disc brake and stretching the hybrid 4" with the extension plates....toss in a suspension saddle & I might make this adventure without the need of strong drugs and/or hospitalization.

Classic girder solo spring toggle fork is what I have in mind. It's quite heavy duty.

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

That's awesome! Should be a nice ride, make a world of difference. Got a link to them?...........Curt

 

[indian22]

Thanks Curt, I don't have a link. I think these were CNOL imports that I'd widened a bit back a year or more ago and then never used. I may add friction dampers to the fork as well. I've got time to get it done in the next six weeks if I'm not held up to long on getting the new rear wheel assembly in hand..

I ran mountain bike suspension forks on the, now, hybrid for a couple of years or more and really didn't like them... the forks were too long & not enough trail. I felt like I was riding uphill all the time and on top of that they were rough as well, the bikes center of gravity was located to much to the rear to give the suspension enough to work with. It was literally a hard & tender tail setup.The bike actually rides better now with just the un-sprung girder fork. I believe the extra length out back and the extra weight of the electrics up front will allow the toggle spring fork to work...at least that's my theory.

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

Sounds good, maybe do something like sportsman friction scissor setup..........Curt

 

[fasteddy]

Hi Curt,

Here's a link to the forks Rick has. They are sold by cnolmotorsports.

Steve.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Replica-In...430797?hash=item3fb4184bcd:g:FPUAAOSwAThcDtoi

 

[indian22]

Thanks Steve; yes that's what I used CNOL and then widened them to carry a wider hub/tire and disc brake. I'll need to now narrow the fork somewhat to mount the electric hub motor axle.

The early bikes using this design had the leather friction dampers on each side of the forks consisting of a simple flat disk affair, with thumb screw adjustment, in place of the center located toggle type that Pat places between the dual springs of his monarch style fork. Quite similar operation principle of both styles of damper to control spring rebound.

Rick C.

 

[allen standley]

Good Stuff Rick!

 

[curtisfox]

Awesome! Thanks Steve. Rick sounds good and less sticking out...... urt

 

[fasteddy]

Your welcome Rick. I've looked those over a lot and for the price they look to be well built.

Steve.

 

[indian22]

These were altered to go on the v twin project that I've relegated to back burner...if ever, so yes I think them stout and I'll use all grade 8 fasteners in the completed fork. One thing that I needed to verify,,,,and I just this moment did, is measure the length of the forks steerer tube and it still has sufficient length to mount...easy swap this one as the fork now mounted on the Grubee is also a 1" threaded, though the Grubee is a 1&1/8" size the bearing conversion has already been done.

This will make the sixth fork change I've made on this little Frankenstein 2 stroke. It is my science project test mule for sure. I really like the look of the straight girder fork on this bike and if I'm not 100% pleased with the switch I'm prepared to back track.

I've ordered several items from CNOL motorsports and never been disappointed though I noticed their e-bay rating is in the 97% range...not stellar, but doing business overseas is not recommended for the impatient.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Some guys don't like retrofits. I'm not that guy. Build it ride it change it and repeat is my process & along the way spend way too much money on each bike. Gives me something to do I suppose.

I plan on starting my frame extension plates today & if I've time and inclination; work on the fork modifications as well. I'm using 1/4" aluminum plate (same thickness as the Grubee drop plates) sandwiched between two 12 gauge steel plates an all bolt up design. Absolutely no drilling of the aluminum frame or the original aluminum drops. Squeeze fit all the way. Simple layout on graph paper to start...not rocket science for sure. The main goal is to offset the increased leverage created by the extension with counter leverage placed in front of the original drop plate & much stronger than the original drops.

The extensions will most likely create a few install problems. Certainly chain length on both sides and straight chain lines. Caliper and rotor alignment may be off some also. I'm thinking the 8" axles will be ok, but not 100% certain. I'm not wanting to run wide tires so frame and tire clearance should be ok.

I ordered a 38 tooth sprocket to try out on the new hub, hoping it's the happy medium I'm searching for between smooth cruising and smoother low speed manners too. The 36 t is just excellent on the road, but not quite a joy in town at low speeds yet climbs hills well...just looking for better.

Nice day here to ride but think I'd better build.

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

LOL ya the only way it will get done is to stay home and work on it.
Sounds good, trial and ear is the only way you find out what is better, and lot of riding. Blessings to this forum also to know what others have done to fix problems for the better. ....................Curt

 

[indian22]

Finished up on resizing, narrowing the 155mm forks to 100mm in preparation for mounting the electric hub for the hybrid. trimming, adjusting will wait... I have yet to find a crown race for it & probably have to order one. They really look narrow now.

.

I've got the extension templates laid out on paper, but will wait for the new wheel & hub to arrive before I cut the metal for the plates.

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Looking forward to seeing your Grubee wearing these forks and the planned frame extensions.
Ha, those cnol girder forks are probably back to being the width they were before you widened them after purchasing 'em. LOL! Never worry about having to back track. All part of what makes a great bike.
Have to say I reckon these are the best forks on the market for us motorized bicycle guys - certainly the best from cnol's range. Without doubt they are extremely well engineered and more than up to the job. After using them on my build no. 3, I currently have another set in my eBay watch list for possible use on the Honda Solo project. I'd pull the trigger on a set now - but until the Solo gets here I don't know what size steer tube I'll need or if the fork leg length is compatible. I'll find out soon....

 

[indian22]

Indeed they are back to the original 100mm width Pete and that's what the electric hub is designed to mount to. I'm thinking that seeing your number 3 bike was the clencher in my placing an order for this fork. I too was pleased when I saw it's robust construction.

This is the third time I've turned to CNOL for forks both the others being un sprung classic girder style. The first I used as a platform for my Indian style leaf spring/girder fork that I mounted on my Simplex cooper gator build. The second is currently used on the hybrid Grubee frame and I love the way it looks and handles, but with the prospect of several full days in the saddle on this hard tail bike has me going in another direction. Un familiar backroads are sure to be filled with surprises so each of my "upgrades" to the hybrid are as much for safety as they are for comfort. Adding a spring fork and saddle suspension while increasing the overall length of the bike are changes that address both. The change from coaster brake to 203mm disk is purely for safety and the new sealed bearing hub is for durability.

Lighting for both front and rear during all riding will also be employed during the trip.

Pete I know your Honda Solo is going to be special as have been all the builds you've shared with us on the forum. I very much like the way you approach each project and the results speak volumes. Now as to fork leg length; delivery will reveal what tire manufacturers seem reluctant to chart for all their offerings. Standing height, mounted on all size wheels by tire model and aspect of all their offerings...too much effort to chart by computer I suppose.

Rick C.