Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[indian22]

A impressive group of bikes indeed Rick. Nice to hear the great report on the the Harley. Another well designed and thought out bike.

Steve.

Thanks Steve I'm in the fun stage with the Pea Shooter where riding is involved and changes are hopefully few, mostly searching for any fasteners that are working loose. I am thankful for Loctite during the break in and trial runs.

As I've about got all my bikes but the HD completely sorted out this Spring I'll be starting the Simplex Copper Gator sidecar next. As it stands, especially after staring at many photos of the various rigs produced through the ages, I'm a mind to build an articulated leaning wheel design, with a brake coupled to the car wheel. I very much favor the concept of leaning the Simplex into curves while turning in either directions, without lifting the side chair. Actually riding the rig rather than driving around turns as one would on four wheels.

Since the Simplex has somewhat racy lines and it's overall height astonishingly low to the ground; I favor a side car which complements these lines as well... low slung, streamlined and lean. I'd prefer to be able to see both car and bike from curbside, so limiting the overall height of the car will be an important element of construction as well. Limiting the length of the car body to 6' or no less than 5' should be in the ball park proportion with the bikes overall length of 79".

One requirement for the car is quick detachment from the Simplex, and to leave minimal hardware on the bikes frame to suggest a car was ever attached. I'd prefer a clean frame, but one allowing for sufficient brackets to remain on the bike to permit quick, accurate and secure remounting of the car with a few fasteners. I really want this to be a dual purpose cycle that is easily broken down for storage, but quickly up and running as a complete rig.

I'm starting to get a feel some direction for the Simplex sidecar addition and that should motivate me to begin work. Rick C.

 

[silverbear]

Very much looking forward to watching as the sidecar gains definition. Your plan sounds good in the broad brush strokes. I agree that riding will be a better experience if you can lean into curves. Something feels very strange about turns with a rigid sidecar and takes a lot of getting used to. I have a seat reserved up in the peanut gallery, so et the show begin...
SB

 

[fasteddy]

Looking forward to seeing the side car build as well. It's going to be a great compliment to the Copper Gator.

Steve.

 

[indian22]

Very much looking forward to watching as the sidecar gains definition. Your plan sounds good in the broad brush strokes. I agree that riding will be a better experience if you can lean into curves. Something feels very strange about turns with a rigid sidecar and takes a lot of getting used to. I have a seat reserved up in the peanut gallery, so et the show begin...
SB

Thanks to you guys. Silver bear your canoe sidecar was really what re ignited my interest in constructing my own & that's been a couple of years now. It is time to get going though I have very little time during the Summer to get much accomplished, perhaps I can just carve out a little time each week to keep the build moving ahead. I'd really like to finish before Fall and roll into Winter working on the Schwinn Panther build which probably won't be a KTM powered board track. I just don't like the look of it in the straight bar frame. Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Just a quick question. Have any of you encountered a leaning wheel sidecar that uses a roller chain system & sprockets instead of a tie rod to actuate the leaning wheel? Seems a clean way, if not simple design, to coordinate outer wheel to bike frame movement. Rick C.

 

[wret]

How about a "Swallow" style sidecar? It looks like the shape might be achievable with flat sheet aluminum.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...kYZblnQH0fOfs2xaScA_ypFg&ust=1493825069605682

Besides looking cool, is there much advantage to a leaning wheel on the sidecar?

 

[Ludwig II]

The passenger controlled banking outfits were banned from German 1,000 metre dirt tracks because of fatal crashes happening.

 

[indian22]

How about a "Swallow" style sidecar? It looks like the shape might be achievable with flat sheet aluminum.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...kYZblnQH0fOfs2xaScA_ypFg&ust=1493825069605682

Besides looking cool, is there much advantage to a leaning wheel on the sidecar?

Wret that's close to the look I'm after....only change ends, shorten and lower with 1/2 diameter wheel & tire diameter. Love the look of the Swallow but pointed end belongs front.

Ludwig I'm not about to let anyone I know steer the sidecar...no turning of the car wheel in this one. I will provide a panic bar for the passenger to hold on to. My articulated design provides for just leaning the of the car wheel mirroring the bike lean controlled by the rider. No side car steering and racing or racing speeds with this one won't be a factor, just want it to feel a bit like I'm riding and not driving; though I know the physics of adding rolling mass out there can't be ignored or offset entirely by the leaning wheel design it can be somewhat mitigated especially at the sedate speeds I'll be traveling. Rick C.

 

[dogcatcher]

Put all of the controls in the sidecar, then make a mannequin that looks like a scarecrow and mount it as the "bike driver"., maybe even have the mannequin sitting facing the rear. lol

 

[Ludwig II]

There is the simple hinge down by the bike frame and the sidecar wheel stays upright. The alternative to my mind is to have a parallelogram arrangement leaning the wheel at some relative ange to the bike You can arrange greater, lesser or equal angular displacement.

 

[fasteddy]

I always wanted to sit in the sidecar with the controls and no one on the bike.


Steve.

 

[indian22]

There is the simple hinge down by the bike frame and the sidecar wheel stays upright. The alternative to my mind is to have a parallelogram arrangement leaning the wheel at some relative ange to the bike You can arrange greater, lesser or equal angular displacement.

Yes Ludwig the frame I'm designing has a hinge at the bike to car frame connection and a bar or chain to transfer the "parallelogram" to lean
not steer the car wheel, leaning in relation to the bike frames lean left or right..,old concept been around many decades. Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I always wanted to sit in the sidecar with the controls and no one on the bike.


Steve.

Steve there is a photo of a sidecar rig set up as you & Dog catcher described on Pinterest. Rick C.

 

[Ludwig II]

I am cautious on your behalf, flexibility adds variables to an already asymmetric device.

 

[indian22]

Ludwig you are the master of the understatement! Asymmetric indeed: here I am wanting to build a sidecar at 70 years young and only just enjoyed my first ride as a rig passenger a couple of months ago. Talk about a novice. My sum experience is seeing and reading up on the topic for the last couple of years. I'm not even long on theory let alone actual experience...this build quite likely will take some time and much trial coupled with patience and placing my ego on the shelf while tackling something quite new, at least to me. One fact is inescapable: the concept has been around for decades and many examples of the leaning wheel cars still exist.

A few posts back I mentioned that a frame "lock" would be a feature of my design. When the lock is employed the car becomes "rigid" no articulation at the frame swivel or car wheel. Since the swivel action of leaning the bike frame in either direction actuates the "tie rod" from bike frame to car wheel causing the outside wheel to "lean" out or in in concert with the movement of the frame, locking the frame swivel keeps the car wheel in the "pre aligned" vertical position; by preventing any articulation at the frame swivel/hinge. So when locked the sidecar rig becomes a traditional rigid design, by unlocking it then performs as an articulated leaning wheel design. This is a dual design to suit either the sidecar purist or those like me. Being able to lock the frame should also help me in establishing a baseline platform to more safely determine the initial balance and stability of the car without the variables of frame and wheel articulation getting in the mix. Bracket placement and car wheel alignment need to be test verified before dealing with the added variables of asymmetric ,articulation and braking.

Braking with the outside wheel in the unlocked and therefore articulating mode is definitely an unknown factor. At this point I'd say the rule will be don't ever while turning, which is pretty much my rule of braking anyway. If braking with the chair wheel proves to dangerous in the leaning wheel mode it can be saved for rides in the traditional frame/wheel locked configuration.

I'm not at this point, considering a chair wheel suspension but that may change as things develop.

I'll first concentrate on the frame design development for the Simplex Copper Gator and save the kayak based body & it's frame mounts and suspension for last.

At any rate it seems a fun diversion. Rick C.

 

[Ludwig II]

The locking device. I don't know if America uses the friction type anti snake device we have here. They are fairly cheap, and capable of applying the amount of lock you will need and then being instantly released.

 

[indian22]

I do indeed see that as a quite robust & rapid way to securely lock the car's frame and wheel. Thanks for the heads up Ludwig. I'm thinking coming unhinged accidentally not to be the best of riding sinerios. Rick C.

 

[Ludwig II]

I quite enjoy being unhinged.

 

[indian22]

I agree Ludwig but I prefer to choose the moments.

I selected one of my 2 strokers to ride to morning coffee yesterday a.m. and the lead "barrel" decided to separate from the clutch cable just as I arrived. I chug chugged to a halt and half carried half rolled the bike to it's customary parking spot (I'm a regular morning fixture there) which drew questions as to what tragedy had befallen my ride. I explained as I popped the quick link out & draped the excess chain over an exhaust pipe support bracket and then had my coffee, after which a small crowd watched me happily pedal off for home...try that on your Fat boy Harley next time it leaves you stranded! Simple doesn't mean perfect yet there are some definite advantages. I used a throttle cable to repair this time. It's a bit strange as I had this happen on the Harley Peashooter a few weeks ago, but on the throttle side. Neither bike has many miles in service so it's kinda strange...simple problem but I've not had it happen for many years, till recently. Rick C.

 

[indian22]

The weather here has been so beautiful that I've logged a bunch of miles on my bikes. The Harley Peashooter has received a fair amount of miles and is breaking in nicely. I really like the feel of the HD, very solid and smooth. It's exhaust note is so different from the Simplex, same engine, quite different sound. The baffled stub surprisingly isn't any louder than the Simplex Gator, but sounds more powerful...kinda growls under power and burbles on deceleration. The 44 tooth final sprocket encourages the use of first gear for standing starts, whereas the Simplex with a 56 tooth (only change in the drive line between the HD & the Simplex) really is a better start in 2nd gear. The HD is also 30 lbs. lighter at 130 lbs. vs. 160 lbs. for the Simplex. Neither bike has any bad handling quirks, but the Simplex has a restricted turning radius due to the use of the steering stabilizer.

The foot shift Simplex versus hand shift lever HD Peashooter. Really hasn't been hard to get used to. Foot shift is quicker on the Simplex, but for now the HD hand lever is more fun...so different and reversing the hand controls on the Peashooter with the left hand throttle and front brake and right hand clutch lever wasn't as hard to adjust to as I'd imagined. I really don't have a problem adjusting from one bike to the other. As a lifelong bicycle rider having a left hand brake lever feels completely normal so reaction time isn't going to be a problem on situation stops. I'm still pulling levers with both hands. Speaking of braking, engine compression breaking with the 5 speed gearbox really takes the pressure off the brakes in everyday riding. I still like my single speed bikes and my Schwinn Panther build will be a single speed and probably feature a China girl engine; yet the integrated multi speed motor cycle engines do have real world merits.

The HD is a quicker handling ride and besides being lighter the position of the engine on the Keystone cradle has a little bit lower center of gravity and carries the engine weight biased forward, not much but enough that it makes the bike more responsive and gives me a better feel for what the bike is about to do,especially where this is most important at higher speeds and in twisty sections of the roadway. The Simplex has a more relaxed & secure feel when just covering ground, no drama. The Peashooter has a sporty feel that encourages me to pay attention cause I'm probably going faster than I legally should. Both bikes make me smile and are really fun to ride... so I am! Rick C.