Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike
- Thread starter indian22
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Hi Ludwig, yes the Simplex CG125 RUNS a dream with just the NGK Iridium plug upgrade. The Peashooter Harley however has a carb issue I'm working on. I switched the Simplex carb over to the Harley and motor ran fine, so I've ordered a new carb, Mikuni, plus a jet set and rebuild kit to. Sort things out...plus an Iridium plug as I'm now a believer.
Should have mentioned the carb problem in earlier an post Ludwig. Thanks for the gentle nudge. The Harley ran sweet for the 15 or 20 minutes I had her out. The bike is noticeably lighter than the Simplex, which I ran across the scales yesterday and it showed 160 lbs. which was 30 lbs. more than I'd thought. I have a 44 tooth rear sprocket mounted on the Harley and first gear is now useful. The Simplex with 56 t rear never needs a start in first, but with the sidecar upcoming I'll leave as is for the time being.
First ride impression was positive yet strange what with left hand shift and throttle, along with right hand clutch lever and throttle twist forward, lol twice! Shifting has to be leisurely coming off the throttle with left hand coming into play shifting and clutching with the right hand. Left hand back on throttle and twisting forward. Slow motion shifts won't win any drag races, but also won't pop any valve train parts in the process. Really has an old fashion feel to it all.
The Harley rides more like a bicycle than the Simplex peddle gator, which was of course originally designed as a lightweight cycle or scooter rather than a moped. Because the pedal drive ratio is so tall the Harley can only be propelled by human power at a snails pace, this chain line will never wear out through pedal use. It's real function is to employ the coaster brake and the rear brake really works quite well with 4 stroke compression braking coupled with five gears and a wet clutch.
The ride is pretty good, for a hard tail. The dual spring shocks work well as does the saddle spring and the Rich Phillips saddles are always super in the comfort zone. I'm actually planning on going back to Phillips gator saddle on the Simplex because of the great ride, I admire the tooling on the leather of the current saddle but it doesn't come close in ride comfort, not even when aided with air ride saddle suspension.
Guess that catches us up. Rick C.
Should have mentioned the carb problem in earlier an post Ludwig. Thanks for the gentle nudge. The Harley ran sweet for the 15 or 20 minutes I had her out. The bike is noticeably lighter than the Simplex, which I ran across the scales yesterday and it showed 160 lbs. which was 30 lbs. more than I'd thought. I have a 44 tooth rear sprocket mounted on the Harley and first gear is now useful. The Simplex with 56 t rear never needs a start in first, but with the sidecar upcoming I'll leave as is for the time being.
First ride impression was positive yet strange what with left hand shift and throttle, along with right hand clutch lever and throttle twist forward, lol twice! Shifting has to be leisurely coming off the throttle with left hand coming into play shifting and clutching with the right hand. Left hand back on throttle and twisting forward. Slow motion shifts won't win any drag races, but also won't pop any valve train parts in the process. Really has an old fashion feel to it all.
The Harley rides more like a bicycle than the Simplex peddle gator, which was of course originally designed as a lightweight cycle or scooter rather than a moped. Because the pedal drive ratio is so tall the Harley can only be propelled by human power at a snails pace, this chain line will never wear out through pedal use. It's real function is to employ the coaster brake and the rear brake really works quite well with 4 stroke compression braking coupled with five gears and a wet clutch.
The ride is pretty good, for a hard tail. The dual spring shocks work well as does the saddle spring and the Rich Phillips saddles are always super in the comfort zone. I'm actually planning on going back to Phillips gator saddle on the Simplex because of the great ride, I admire the tooling on the leather of the current saddle but it doesn't come close in ride comfort, not even when aided with air ride saddle suspension.
Guess that catches us up. Rick C.
The thing with modern spark improvements, I've met vintage bike owners whose old British singles and twins were transformed by the addition of a cdi ignition, I've lost count. They changed asthmatic and poorly running and performing heaps into a practical motorcycles. There's no asking the dead and buried engineers why they didn't put big fat 12v high amp generators on, but the answer probably lies in the middle between cutting production costs, and the direly miserable attitude of "well, there's a bit of a spark, won't that do?"
That was a thought provoking post Ludwig. I'd think the majority of current riders would agree with upgrading a vintage engine to CDI, but some remain stuck, literally, with virtually useless mounts because they are purists that must favor viewing to dependable riding. I totally respect restoring, preservation & display of unique and rare historical items of motoring history, but those machines qualifying as such are relatively few while true "riders" are plentiful & in my humble opinion should be upgraded for dependability and performance and enjoyed on the road, as occasional transport and displayed to an admiring public while in actual use.
All of us in the classic/board track forum build fakes that represent, some with great faithfulness to detail, others (like myself) are just trying to capture the spirit of a long ago age while incorporating some obvious features that didn't exist in the early twentieth century. I ride every day, weather permitting, year round so I value safety and dependability over any visual detail that is period correct.
All this of course is my opinion and certainly open to critique as I'm seldom in doubt, but often proved wrong on a variety of topics large and small.
I so enjoy this forum and it's contributors! Rick C. still sparking along.
All of us in the classic/board track forum build fakes that represent, some with great faithfulness to detail, others (like myself) are just trying to capture the spirit of a long ago age while incorporating some obvious features that didn't exist in the early twentieth century. I ride every day, weather permitting, year round so I value safety and dependability over any visual detail that is period correct.
All this of course is my opinion and certainly open to critique as I'm seldom in doubt, but often proved wrong on a variety of topics large and small.
I so enjoy this forum and it's contributors! Rick C. still sparking along.
I have recently seen that good old phrase "in my humble opinion". Mine aren't humble, they're MINE! 
There's always the balance between originality and upgrading. We are in the welcome position as builders of tribute or other vintage style bikes of using engines with modern sparks, or having the availability of such ignitions. My Gravis et Lento 1930s European style bike will use late model Motobecane replacement parts which will set a raging fire in it's metal heart (Shakespeare? I'll moider da bum!) where the original components were known to be frankly rather soggy and uninspiring.
There's always the balance between originality and upgrading. We are in the welcome position as builders of tribute or other vintage style bikes of using engines with modern sparks, or having the availability of such ignitions. My Gravis et Lento 1930s European style bike will use late model Motobecane replacement parts which will set a raging fire in it's metal heart (Shakespeare? I'll moider da bum!) where the original components were known to be frankly rather soggy and uninspiring.If the technology was there a 100 years ago they would have upgraded themselves. Why should they beat themselves to be "authentic"?
Modern car and motorcycle electronics are subjected to re chipping and components like injectors can be upgraded. I sometimes see old motorcycles renovated and later, but not recent, parts removed and replaced with originals. This rather takes some of the life out of them, the parts are a documentary of a machine's existence and evolution through the hands of it's owners. In Motorcycle Sport (UK mag) years ago there was a 1970s painted CB400/4 returned to standard. In the process, a window into the styles, the fashions of the time were lost.
However, the treatment of any machine is the responsibility of it's owner and they have the final say.
However, the treatment of any machine is the responsibility of it's owner and they have the final say.
Dogcatcher I'm not sure but as Ludwig states it's really up to the owner. I think he also makes a good case for retention of some of the "old" upgrades. I posted some photos of a 1936 Plymouth 3 window coupe that was was a '40's and '50's street rod that eventually was resto modded & freshened up to mostly 1950's hot rod look in the late '70's. Baby Chrysler Hemi head, 3 dueces, Stromberg carbs, Isky cam, old school B&W gauges and wide white walls on narrow tires and wheels. 3 and a half foot long yellow and orange flames running down the body which was painted fire engine red. Not fast maybe low 15 second quarter speed at 88 mph, but cool as heck with suicide doors and real tan leather interior. Mostly used era parts, many which had been added in the '50's were retained and are still used, but state of the art (for the seventies) electronic ignition was installed as an upgrade. That addition alone made the little street rod rod dependable enough to drive anywhere the small fuel tank would allow... with great confidence.
I will never be a hater but have my preferences and display them in what I construct. Rick C.
I will never be a hater but have my preferences and display them in what I construct. Rick C.
Now some parts are rolling in, new 160 mm rotor installed on the black 2 cycle that I refer to as the Indian Outlaw ("half Cherokee & Choctaw; mama was a Chippawa; she's one of a kind..." new Mikuni carb for the Harley Peashooter etc. more Spring cleanup and fix up on house and bikes plus getting in some riding time between much needed rain storms. Rick C.
I switched out the saddles on the Simplex Copper Gator, returned to the alligator hide Rich Phillips gel saddle and my backside is thanking me! What looked great and felt fine for short rides became quite ugly and painful on rides of longer duration. I'm talking 15 minutes or longer rides not hours. My Easter afternoon ride was just under an hour and no pain, the Phillips saddle also kept me well positioned...not quite as slick as the tooled seat and I felt more locked in to the bike. Maybe I'll build a show bike (chances of this occurring are less than zero) and make use of the fancy saddle. Mistakes occur & this was one of many in my time fabricating stuff, can't take it seriously at any rate worth a chuckle.
Switching some attention to my Grubee 2 stroke today for some minor upkeep & potential change of motor mounts. Part of the Spring stuff then carb change out on the Harley Peashooter is next in line as I'd like to see I've that problem sorted out for good. I'd like to spend some real time on the Harley testing and adjusting to suit rather than mucking about with the rest of my transports, but that's what I get putting it off rather than doing a bit here and there as I go along. Rick C.
Switching some attention to my Grubee 2 stroke today for some minor upkeep & potential change of motor mounts. Part of the Spring stuff then carb change out on the Harley Peashooter is next in line as I'd like to see I've that problem sorted out for good. I'd like to spend some real time on the Harley testing and adjusting to suit rather than mucking about with the rest of my transports, but that's what I get putting it off rather than doing a bit here and there as I go along. Rick C.
Lot of things accomplished, 2 cycles new exhaust gaskets, teflon tape on petcocks plus reed valve gasket on the Grubee...no leaks!
Harley Peashooter has a new Mikuni and runs nice with this one. Still tinkering on the finishing touches, but riding as well for the fun of it and make sure all is tight & good to go. Rides nice & sounds good, not real loud just throaty. Really balanced an feels light big scale shows 120 lbs. 44 tooth rear is about right it can really accelerate in the first two gears, something the Simplex can't really take advantage of with the 56 t rear sprocket. I'm really liking the hand shifted 5 speed though the right hand clutch and left hand throttle are a bit different feel really odd at times...I'll get a feel for them as well during breakin.
Steering is great & the forks are also. The Harley and Simplex don't vibrate and other than ordinary chain noise function very quietly.
I'm pleased so far. Rick C.
Harley Peashooter has a new Mikuni and runs nice with this one. Still tinkering on the finishing touches, but riding as well for the fun of it and make sure all is tight & good to go. Rides nice & sounds good, not real loud just throaty. Really balanced an feels light big scale shows 120 lbs. 44 tooth rear is about right it can really accelerate in the first two gears, something the Simplex can't really take advantage of with the 56 t rear sprocket. I'm really liking the hand shifted 5 speed though the right hand clutch and left hand throttle are a bit different feel really odd at times...I'll get a feel for them as well during breakin.
Steering is great & the forks are also. The Harley and Simplex don't vibrate and other than ordinary chain noise function very quietly.
I'm pleased so far. Rick C.
Attachments
A impressive group of bikes indeed Rick. Nice to hear the great report on the the Harley. Another well designed and thought out bike.
Steve.
Steve.
Ludwig you probably recall that the CG 125 5 speed was not my first selection for power for my Simplex Copper Gator, but was purchased because of a shipping snafu at the Port of Los Angeles during a labor strike dispute. I'd ordered a 200 cc electric start Honda clone. However I'm completely satisfied with my 125 cc alternate for both the Simplex and the subsequent Harley Peashooter build with Keystone cradle. You assured me very early on it was a very good choice and it has turned out that I heartily concur and yes it is a very trustworthy power plant and divetrain which more than fulfills my requirements for motor bicycle usage a large factor of which is the dependability shown by the Simplex moto and I have no doubt the HD bike will substantiate as well..thanks for your continued support and encouragement during both builds! Rick C.
Wret thanks for your post and complement. I am a compulsive fabricator and eclectic in what I turn my attention to. Over the years I've built many cars, trucks
motorcycles, firearms, knives, antique replications and restorations as well as customs. In the last two decades I've turned my attention to painting wildlife art, writing action novels and building bicycles including the vintage motos. I need outlets for creating and I really do hope some are inspired by them and create more of their own; wherever that might lead them. More doesn't necessarily indicate better so one bike that suits can be just enough. I see you massaging you're beautiful bike & the changes are obviously well reaserched and executed leading to a build that better suits you and inspires us as well.
You "finished" your build while I was working on the nuts and bolts of the Simplex and I read though each and every post in your build thread, some several times, you used the same engine I had on order at the time, so you faced some similar obstacles during the build. Thanks for the photos and details...made me think & that's never a bad thing. Rick C.
If you've followed my posts over the last couple of years the following will most likely sound familiar. I hold some strong opinions which may or might not be valid, but are based on at least 65 years of cycling experience. I recently explained my observations on the use of brakes while riding on two wheels to a young motorcycling enthusiast & later thought a post explaining my views might lend insight to those setting up and then riding moto bicycles in the safest manner. This is not meant to be an exhaustive post, but just touching some elements of braking I've found to be interesting and useful.
I credit the English racing legend John Surtees and the Canadian born U.S. off road great Malcolm Smith with much influence in my thinking along with other credible cyclists, using motor power or not...mostly after understanding it all wrong for protracted periods of time during my riding experiences.
The front brake does almost all the work in braking and should be used most of the time, after proper training and practice. Situations where the front brake usage should be moderated or not used at all are on slippery roadways and rough terrain. I'm keeping it simple here, explanations are available.
Maximum braking occurs when the front brake begins to lift the rear tire off the road surface, which can't happen on slick roadways or sandy/gravel or bumpy surfaces. The rear brake is not effective during this rear wheel lift, the rear tire patch isn't bearing weight during max breaking, so forget using the rear brake for quick emergency stops on non slippery roadways.
Some have been at my next point since the beginning. What about going over the bars? I've been there and done that several times on "dry" surfaces. Good front brakes will certainly do this if one "grabs" rather than moderates, squeezes, the brake lever in a panic. That's where daily practice and feel for what the brakes are doing comes in. If you are relying on the rear brakes primarily during daily casual rides you will not develop the feel and the reflexes necessary for the sudden stops required in day to day traffic.
I like the board track style bikes, especially with good front brakes. Remember I said that maximum breaking occurs when the front wheel braking begins to lift the rear wheel from the road surface? That lifting occurs a bit later and with greater predictability and thus more rider control when more weight is biased to the rear wheel. I want my saddle position far to the rear and the board track style is perfect for this positioning. To clarify: max braking still occurs when rear wheel begins to lift, but the very short delay caused by the riders weight shift rearward delivers more control to the rider...the shift to the front wheel is less violent, helping keep the rider behind the bars. Another aspect of the board track style is the riders position is not as upright & his center of gravity lower than on a traditional bike design which also helps resist going over the bars. The last thing I'll mention about this style bike is the handle bars and seating positions work together to lessen the tendency to ride with elbows completely relaxed and bent, which tendency promotes going over the bars on braking or sudden impacts. Think of it this way; when one braces for a quick stop while a passenger in an auto do they have arms bent or as straight as time allows?
I build coaster brake bikes with good front brakes. I don't ride the mountains so fade isn't a problem. Disc rears are great for the rear, especially for helping on long descents, heat is a factor. Bumps, gravel, slippery surfaces where rears are very useful the coasters work fine. Front brakes should not be used in bumps, bad things always happen when coming off a bump on a locked front wheel!
Use of front brakes during turning is a special skill set I'd not recommend. Some experts can safely use braking in turns, but front or rear braking is generally dicey for most. I stay away from it mostly and admit to using rear brake bias when I do. My eyes aren't what they once were nor is my reaction time so I ride the curves as if they are all slick!
Comments are welcome pro and con of course & remember though this is kinda long post it's just a tiny bit about braking and riding daily. Not expert and racing etc. though the basic physics doesn't change advanced tech, dollars, skill level, circumstances and applications absolutely do.
Build and ride informed. Still having fun. Rick C.
I credit the English racing legend John Surtees and the Canadian born U.S. off road great Malcolm Smith with much influence in my thinking along with other credible cyclists, using motor power or not...mostly after understanding it all wrong for protracted periods of time during my riding experiences.
The front brake does almost all the work in braking and should be used most of the time, after proper training and practice. Situations where the front brake usage should be moderated or not used at all are on slippery roadways and rough terrain. I'm keeping it simple here, explanations are available.
Maximum braking occurs when the front brake begins to lift the rear tire off the road surface, which can't happen on slick roadways or sandy/gravel or bumpy surfaces. The rear brake is not effective during this rear wheel lift, the rear tire patch isn't bearing weight during max breaking, so forget using the rear brake for quick emergency stops on non slippery roadways.
Some have been at my next point since the beginning. What about going over the bars? I've been there and done that several times on "dry" surfaces. Good front brakes will certainly do this if one "grabs" rather than moderates, squeezes, the brake lever in a panic. That's where daily practice and feel for what the brakes are doing comes in. If you are relying on the rear brakes primarily during daily casual rides you will not develop the feel and the reflexes necessary for the sudden stops required in day to day traffic.
I like the board track style bikes, especially with good front brakes. Remember I said that maximum breaking occurs when the front wheel braking begins to lift the rear wheel from the road surface? That lifting occurs a bit later and with greater predictability and thus more rider control when more weight is biased to the rear wheel. I want my saddle position far to the rear and the board track style is perfect for this positioning. To clarify: max braking still occurs when rear wheel begins to lift, but the very short delay caused by the riders weight shift rearward delivers more control to the rider...the shift to the front wheel is less violent, helping keep the rider behind the bars. Another aspect of the board track style is the riders position is not as upright & his center of gravity lower than on a traditional bike design which also helps resist going over the bars. The last thing I'll mention about this style bike is the handle bars and seating positions work together to lessen the tendency to ride with elbows completely relaxed and bent, which tendency promotes going over the bars on braking or sudden impacts. Think of it this way; when one braces for a quick stop while a passenger in an auto do they have arms bent or as straight as time allows?
I build coaster brake bikes with good front brakes. I don't ride the mountains so fade isn't a problem. Disc rears are great for the rear, especially for helping on long descents, heat is a factor. Bumps, gravel, slippery surfaces where rears are very useful the coasters work fine. Front brakes should not be used in bumps, bad things always happen when coming off a bump on a locked front wheel!
Use of front brakes during turning is a special skill set I'd not recommend. Some experts can safely use braking in turns, but front or rear braking is generally dicey for most. I stay away from it mostly and admit to using rear brake bias when I do. My eyes aren't what they once were nor is my reaction time so I ride the curves as if they are all slick!
Comments are welcome pro and con of course & remember though this is kinda long post it's just a tiny bit about braking and riding daily. Not expert and racing etc. though the basic physics doesn't change advanced tech, dollars, skill level, circumstances and applications absolutely do.
Build and ride informed. Still having fun. Rick C.
Thanks Silverbear I'm having fun with them all this Spring.
I'm really looking forward to the progress of your tri car, Steve's doing a great job on the chair & platform. Rick C.