Sidecar crews, especially those together for a long time, develop an intense bond, perhaps similar to that of soldiers. You've been out there, trusting each other absolutely. The passenger isn't just an inanimate lump either; you find the drive as well as hold the wheel down. Good passengers, the really good ones, are worth seconds a lap.
Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike
- Thread starter indian22
- Start date
Watched Isle of Man sidecars this a.m. good stuff as always. I'd forgotten just how dangerous that venue is, buildings, trees, drop offs & the use of barriers few and far between... crazy exciting just to watch the skill and teamwork, not forgetting the beautifully well prepared machines. Rick C.
Flyer frame be here on Thursday according to UPS tracking...Pat's got his stuff together on shipping as well as quality. Rick C.
Thanks Curtis for pointing out a plentiful source for the differentials. I've only asked one local "mower man" and he said if I would take the whole tractor he'd give them to me. Seems if your going to build a trike eliminating design flaws will make the completed project more enjoyable to actually ride. Not that you can't do it the easy way and adjust to it by just living with it. I did that with an ex wife, but life is much less complicated & enjoyable now! Rick C.
Attachments
If you use lawn tractor ones it will take two so you can get the long axle shaft out of the second to make it wide enough. Lucky you could find some they long gone and not used anymore , unless you find old stock. They also have to be supported in next to the differential and on out board end next to the wheel, let the fun begain LOL"............Curt
Steve many of the kids around here had those Civil war buttons and WW 1 medals etc. in their treasure box (cigar box) family hand me downs mostly. I doubt any of us recognized the sacrifice those items represented.
A group of grade school boys, of which I was one, dug up a Civil war era cannon ball during recess on school playground & turned it in to teacher. A university expert verified the fully charged ordinance, but hadn't a clue how it might have ended up where found. No known skirmishes occurred this far west during the "War of Northern agression" though the disgraceful General Custer's troops shamefully slaughtered a village of Indian women & children not many miles from this area in what was termed the "Battle of the Wa****a". What goes around comes around it's said.
Carbide cannons were an item listed in the back pages I wanted one but no money for that either, as I was saving for my Cushman Eagle...priorities!
Thinking of utilizing the Marion frame (Keystone) modification to make enough room for the 5 speed CG125. Relatively easy mod which will allow me to lower the engine 5 or 6 inches. Improving the center of gravity will improve balance and handling. Earlier I was viewing a few early racing Harley's which featured this mount and was amazed at how low the bike was to the ground. I won't go to that extreme cause streets do have speed bumps and race tracks don't.
I really want this bike to resemble an early board track Harley.
Rick C.
Originally Posted by fasteddy View Post
It's funny that you mention not being able to afford the things in the back pages of the Popular Mechanics..................
I probably am still around as I could not afford the linear gas engine powered po-go stick I saw in Popular Mechanics ads in back of magazine.
http://www.bpmlegal.com/wpogo.html
It's funny that you mention not being able to afford the things in the back pages of the Popular Mechanics..................
I probably am still around as I could not afford the linear gas engine powered po-go stick I saw in Popular Mechanics ads in back of magazine.
http://www.bpmlegal.com/wpogo.html
I remember that powered pogo as well & would definitely buy one now (at the original pricing) just to see how it was constructed. As a charter member of the "Danger Rangers" I'd probably try a ride even at my age, but that would certainly be ill advised. Some of that back page stuff had to be dangerous!
Butch I'm really looking forward to receiving the frame today and pulling together the design plan for the Cg 125 5 speed mated to a Flyer frame. I'm not aware of any build thread on such a combination and that rather surprises me. Forum members please correct me if I've missed such a thread. Wret built a dandy CG150 in a loop frame of his own design, other than that the use of the 5 speed CG Honda family of motors is scant.
These CG motors are vertical, with integrated 5 speed wet clutch and kick starting (electric option) ranging in displacement from 50cc to 230cc and have real charging for 12 volt systems, lighting & accessories readily available...designed specifically for this motor. Weight is about 55 lbs. not excessive and advertised power varies on the Cg 125 but 11 to 12 hp seems to be close. Cam is mild and my Simplex is happy to smoothly purr at 10 mph in 3 rd. & I could lock it in that gear full time as it pulls from a dead stop quite easily in third and have enough speed to get me a bad ticket even on county roads (40 mph limit). Engine requires room so loop frames or custom construction are necessary. Engine is 17" H X 14" L x 13" W. On the Simplex I increased height by 4" and lengthened it by 6" & it just barely fits. I expect that even the Flyer frame will require alteration, but since it's based on the classic frames it lends itself to "easier" motor mount solutions. The CG motor has 6 well placed attachment points located 2 forward, 2 aft, motor base & head. No need to use a head or case bolt for support as these are all factory supports designed for the purpose. Steve pointed out that the engine is a bolt on and use unit and that is basically a correct insight for the motor. Motor & pedal drive train design is a bit more work but no more so than using a Predator. If you can set up one then the other is a close repeat.
One thing that needs addressing is the proximity of the pedals for utilizing the shift lever & brake (if one uses a coaster as I do on the Simplex) left pedal down & level with the shift peg may require an adjustment of pedal length & or modification of the factory shift lever. On the Simplex I had to do both: shortened the pedals and lengthened the shift peg.
Overall I think the CG motor and the Flyer frame is good match and a build that doesn't require a great deal of skill to assemble into a really solid driver, one which can be built at reasonable cost of both time and dollars. Of course you can spend a ton of time and money tweaking any machine to suit, but a basic build shouldn't break the bank. Rick C.
Butch I'm really looking forward to receiving the frame today and pulling together the design plan for the Cg 125 5 speed mated to a Flyer frame. I'm not aware of any build thread on such a combination and that rather surprises me. Forum members please correct me if I've missed such a thread. Wret built a dandy CG150 in a loop frame of his own design, other than that the use of the 5 speed CG Honda family of motors is scant.
These CG motors are vertical, with integrated 5 speed wet clutch and kick starting (electric option) ranging in displacement from 50cc to 230cc and have real charging for 12 volt systems, lighting & accessories readily available...designed specifically for this motor. Weight is about 55 lbs. not excessive and advertised power varies on the Cg 125 but 11 to 12 hp seems to be close. Cam is mild and my Simplex is happy to smoothly purr at 10 mph in 3 rd. & I could lock it in that gear full time as it pulls from a dead stop quite easily in third and have enough speed to get me a bad ticket even on county roads (40 mph limit). Engine requires room so loop frames or custom construction are necessary. Engine is 17" H X 14" L x 13" W. On the Simplex I increased height by 4" and lengthened it by 6" & it just barely fits. I expect that even the Flyer frame will require alteration, but since it's based on the classic frames it lends itself to "easier" motor mount solutions. The CG motor has 6 well placed attachment points located 2 forward, 2 aft, motor base & head. No need to use a head or case bolt for support as these are all factory supports designed for the purpose. Steve pointed out that the engine is a bolt on and use unit and that is basically a correct insight for the motor. Motor & pedal drive train design is a bit more work but no more so than using a Predator. If you can set up one then the other is a close repeat.
One thing that needs addressing is the proximity of the pedals for utilizing the shift lever & brake (if one uses a coaster as I do on the Simplex) left pedal down & level with the shift peg may require an adjustment of pedal length & or modification of the factory shift lever. On the Simplex I had to do both: shortened the pedals and lengthened the shift peg.
Overall I think the CG motor and the Flyer frame is good match and a build that doesn't require a great deal of skill to assemble into a really solid driver, one which can be built at reasonable cost of both time and dollars. Of course you can spend a ton of time and money tweaking any machine to suit, but a basic build shouldn't break the bank. Rick C.
Good day all around. Flyer frame arrived undamaged. I couldn't be more pleased with the quality and service as always. As I suspected the down tube must be moved forward and loop has to go. Engine position will be lowered several inches and moved forward as well. In my opinion this is a good thing lowering the center of gravity. I'll fabricate a curved engine cradle bracket similar to those used on the curved Keystone design Harley board & dirt trackers & with a down tube that is quite close to the front tire.
I've been cleaning up the dual spring Simplex forks I've been hoping to use & am glad to report that the fork steer tube is just long enough to fit the Flyers head tube & that made my day. These forks along with a few additional modifications I have in mind will form the basis of my Harley Davidson look front end. The cast fork rockers are perfect for the look I'm going for. The fork coupled to a set of Pat's Harley style bars and his HD flat side repro stainless tank & the keystone type mount I'm thinking is a good start to an early style Harley race bike. Even the CG 125 engine with it's slight forward lean will look much like the early century "pea shooter, half a Harley race engines" which had the back jug of the V twin removed and blocked off in order to conform to new race restrictions on engine displacement. Thus making it of a half a V or half of a Harley V.
Starting to get fun. Rick C
I've been cleaning up the dual spring Simplex forks I've been hoping to use & am glad to report that the fork steer tube is just long enough to fit the Flyers head tube & that made my day. These forks along with a few additional modifications I have in mind will form the basis of my Harley Davidson look front end. The cast fork rockers are perfect for the look I'm going for. The fork coupled to a set of Pat's Harley style bars and his HD flat side repro stainless tank & the keystone type mount I'm thinking is a good start to an early style Harley race bike. Even the CG 125 engine with it's slight forward lean will look much like the early century "pea shooter, half a Harley race engines" which had the back jug of the V twin removed and blocked off in order to conform to new race restrictions on engine displacement. Thus making it of a half a V or half of a Harley V.
Starting to get fun. Rick C
Attachments
I like it, looks like in the picture the motor fits in the frame? Maybe I am not seeing everything. Really like the fork, you got yourself a nice project going on Rick...
I just looked up the Harley Pea Shooter and saw what you are going to do with the frame. This should be a great build as well as not the usual one we see here.
Looking forward to seeing this come together. The Copper Gator will have excellent company.
Steve.
Looking forward to seeing this come together. The Copper Gator will have excellent company.
Steve.
The CAC and Joe Petrali are of interest to 1/4 mile oval racers too. There wasn't enough call for the level of involvement to beat the J.A.P. engnes of the time. Land prices of America have alays militated against pocket handkerchief circuits, you can afford bigger.
Last edited:
Thanks Silver bear but that credit is to Pat D. his frames just screams authentic with the brazed lug construction, just beautiful fab skills. Rick C.