Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

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sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
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Hi Rick,
The answer is simple on the handlebars. Run them where comfortable, then when you go to a bike show or your buddies drop by, crank them down low where they look cool! Kind of like air bag suspension on a hotrod. The best looking position is totally impractical.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Hi Pat,

Love the Indian bars & the service as well! You're also right about the ultimate look being totally impractical for daily use; especially for one my age. Which got me thinking (uh oh) that the best look for your bars would be used with a classic stem. Currently I'm using a 1" to 1 & 1/8" adapter mated to a 50 mm BMX ahead stem. By going to a 210 mm ahead stem I gain a bit over 2" & that should just about be the perfect "reach" & the only extra adjustment available as the saddle is maxed out at the current ride height (which I like) & I don't want to change. I'll change to the 210 mm ahead stem and see what I can accomplish with your bars on a daily basis kinda cool yet practical. For bike shows classic stem and bars in racing configuration works for me as it show cases what I set out to achieve with this build. Thanks, Rick C.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Of course the ahead stem won't be 210 mm, but 110 mm little over 4 inches compared to 2" of change. Main thing I want in day to day riding is increased reach so I've installed an adjustable head stem with a tiny gas/oil shock to control bar vibration. It adjust through 55 degrees arc of motion without tools just push the lever on the fly. Shock is locked out at the lowest setting. Makes the bike feel much larger and still allows the handles to remain at a low adjustment setting. I bought three of these from a dealer in the UK who was selling his old stock. This is the last one. I've used them on bicycles and they work great. Flip the bars up for a more comfortable and leisurely upright posture or down for the racy look & feel. Just foolin' around & having fun. Rick C.
 

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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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So I changed the bars & added the 110 mm adjustable head stem with bar shock. Rode the heck out of the Simplex, adjusted & fine tuned these components, as well as the dual spring fork and steering stabilizer... while adjusting tire pressure. I'm calling it all good up front! In the process the headlight was removed cause it interfered with the lowest settings of the stem & bars. With everything sorted out I remounted the light by simply turning the mounting bracket upside down & bolting the whole affair together. Kinda looks like I planned it to be mounted this way from the get go... or blind luck, whatever. Rick C.
 

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sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
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california
Hi Rick,
Really enjoying your build thread. As you know, building a machine is one thing, but getting it properly sorted to fire up and ride anywhere without a single problem is another. Nicely done!
Pat
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
Rick,
I was looking at the picture of your Simplex and wondering what the guys at the factory back when would think of your build. "Look at that, wouldja! Wow!" I'm sure they'd like it just fine.
SB
 

indian22

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
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Hi Rick,
Really enjoying your build thread. As you know, building a machine is one thing, but getting it properly sorted to fire up and ride anywhere without a single problem is another. Nicely done!
Pat
Thanks Pat I'm still not at the drive it anywhere stage, but GPS shows me covering 15 miles plus on some rides. I like to stay close to a full set of tools just in case! As the engine has loosened up I'm finding that even forth gear pulls with power from speeds as low as 15 mph. I'm glad I selected the 54 tooth sprocket I bought from you.

All in all a work in progress, but it's fun stuff even when the inevitable problems pop up. All fabricators make mistakes, good fabricators solve them. Photo shows stem in the fully upright position at that point the shock is active and has about 1.5" of travel.

Silver bear I'd like to make a pass by of the old factory at days end & see the look on those workers faces as I rode by! Rick C.
 

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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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I know I called the steering end of the bike all good & for the time being it is, but I didn't mention & wondered if any of you noted how easy it would be to add a shock from the stem mounts to the headlight bracket (3/16" steel plate) if rebound control is required? Friction (Hickman) or gas tube would work great. I'm really not noting any of the more notorious quirks of the springer fork effecting the Simplex & give credit to Sunlite Co. for getting the dimensional relationships in balance with the leading link design, also credit Pat with giving me the heads up on swapping the rubber cushion locations. Small changes often make big differences in bike control, comfort and ultimately safety.

I know some may think I've spent a lot of time and money on the control end of my Simplex Copper Gator and as I write this I'm already planning upgrades to improve what's not even shown to be a problem to date. The reason not being to go faster, but safer...on bike based parts and a pedal equipped frame.

I have motorcycles for highway cruising and dirt busting & I have moto bicycles for my personal riding enjoyment, lightweight, fun rides. Must confess I also like the attention they receive when parked among new bikes costing $40,000. plus, they steal the show! Bunch of you guys know what I'm talking about cause your builds invoke the same response in young & old...regardless of gender or interest level in motor vehicles. Build unique & have fun! Rick C.
 

sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
1,844
485
83
california
Hi Rick,
Your already miles ahead by using the Sunlite fork. The way it was designed to carry the front wheel on the front fork instead of leading it in front of the fork makes for a more predictable braking experience. Other design springers can have issues under braking. Anyway, I have found the lighter bikes work fine without a dampening system but as weight and speed increases a shock is a nice addition. Sounds like you already have a handle on the various approaches. Jeff (CCC) has done a nice job of adapting a shock to his springer. My friction shock system is definitely more archaic but works well. I have even seen some of the speed shops that carry a true friction shock. Not sure if it will fit but the actual friction shock components within the kit may be salvaged for a custom design friction shock.
Pat
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Yes Pat I agree that CCC has not only a fine springer shock but also a terrific build ongoing. This forum has really come to life again with 10 are so active, quality builds represented in the last month or so...really exciting.

You say archaic Pat & I say your shock is cool & obviously it works or you wouldn't be allowed to run the salt. Your right rodder's been using friction shocks/dampers for 7 decades at least. Don't have a shock towers & don't need like them, go scissors. T's , A's you name 'em especially running no fenders or cycle tins, friction shocks were the go to rebound and they've been back in vogue for some time.

Weight & speed factor into almost every area of a build design, fasteners & welding, material strength, brakes, tires etc. It makes a long list & suspension is in the mix. My Simplex is in that "taint" category. Taint real heavy & taint light neither. Same could be said about the speed. So as I refine. I will modify or replace any existing part which doesn't measure up. Tires, wheels, brakes drive chains etc. I ride what I build so eventually ugly flaws will come up like weeds after the rain & then be disposed of in order.

Third oil change yesterday, relatively little debris in any of them. Transmission is finally settling in and neutral is actually a location that can be found rather easily. Has always started well (when adequately grounded) & cranking up is really effortless. Pedal side has finally broken in and is much easier to power by leg now, but still not without effort.
 

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indian22

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I've started working on a design upgrade for the Simplex motorcycle frame. Not the Copper Gator I'm still finishing out but an all out new build for the classic twin tube design. Longer, lower & with no pretense of pedal power, but with the small tire bicycle look. A 30's style flat tracker with small v-twin power and 5 speeds...kinda like a Harley/ Indian/ Simplex hard tail springer only different. Drum brakes front and rear. All I need to finish this is a frame and engine, time and well everything. Just an idea I've now committed to. I'm going to build a big brother to my Copper Gator, but like the idea of keeping the completed weight well under 200 lbs. wet and around 30 + HP or 5 to 6 lbs per HP. I've been dreaming about this for a few months now & the Copper Gator is leading the way for the base dimensions and geometrical relationship involved with bigger and more powerful. This will be a highway bike to legally keep up with the big boys on poker runs etc. under 100 miles per outing (Gullwing for real trips) and local area weekend riding & I can checkoff "build a v-twin bicycle" off my cool things to do list. Rick C.
 
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Ludwig II

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Jul 17, 2012
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What engine are you looking at? An industrial V twin, or what might be an import job 125 or 250 motorcycle engine?
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Hi Ludwig,

Motorcycle with integrated transmission & air cooled engine. Nothing against the industrial engines. I'm actually a fan. My thinking on the Copper Gator carries over to this V-twin build. I have a target weight & 100 lbs. is about it for engine and transmission. Industrial motor alone will use that up without clutch and transmission. I have a new 5 speed Harley Davidson transmission sitting on the shelf, but couple that to 600 cc Briggs and I'd have a quite large and heavy package. Integrated V-twin makes a clean package with small footprint & ends up costing me less in install time, setup and dollars. More bang out of the box from fewer cubic inches as well. Big torque from the industrial motor is more than offset by 5 speeds and hi rpm horsepower from the factory. I'll bolt on some horsepower as well but won't break the bank getting to 30 hp that's for sure & I also have a multi certified factory mechanic (Honda & Kawasaki) on the payroll who already gets paid for drinking coffee and talking racing. I haven't decided on a specific motor but 250 cc to 500 cc are reasonable parameters to start with. Keeping the weight well under 200 lbs. total is a design goal as well, so displacement choices are somewhat self limiting. I'm not worried about frame strength, just really like light and lively bikes! Rick C.

This bike will have to run all the state dictated safety & regulatory items, so the factory motorcycle wiring harness is also good to have & saves a little time that I'd really rather spend on doing the fun stuff. I really hate electrical!!
 

Ludwig II

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
5,071
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My immediate thought is Chinese made Yamaha Virago 250. Chain drive. There are 125 twins from Honda and Yamaha as well. Thre must be a Honda 250, but would it be a sleeved and destroked 400? Interesting.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Decisions, decisions! Ludwig thanks for the inspiring variety of Vee's little water cooled Shadow is quite nice & makes me rethink my air cooled only stance. I'm liking the Virago as well, but the Morini is sooo sweet in such a tiny package.
The Texas/ Oklahoma area is swamped with good used bikes and parts so prices are typically low compared to many other areas, so I'm always on the lookout for donor bikes.
I'll post up photos of a side by side go-cart we are hacking together for the boys to play with...250cc 5 speed vertical twin...seriously modified for power! Sold one recently powered by a Honda Gull wing set up...talk about fast! Definitely not a kids toy, but with paddle tires it tore up the sand dunes at "Little Sahara" just north of us.
The V twin project needs a cradle so I'm searching now for a Simplex frame to cut up. Trust me it won't look anything like my "Simplex Copper Gator" when completed. The heritage will be recognizable as a Simplex sort of but unique. I really don't like to copy even my own work. With what I've got going on with other projects I'm realistically looking at about a year to completion, if I can get started on the frame & engine quickly next Spring I'll have my Simplex V-twin to the point my "Copper Gator" is now.

Ageing with a weak Muratic acid solution is starting to develop a noticable patina on the copper. The hammered surface stands out a little better as well in the photos. Rick C.
 

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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Put together some parts for a spring chain tensioner on the Copper gator. With the idea of not having to use a half link, ever & less time adjusting the drive train. After trying several versions composed of straight springs and elastic/torsion designs; I decided to go with a simple torsion spring device. It's simple, clean and tough while using bicycle parts I had laying around the shop. I'll refine for the final version after I've tested awhile. Rick C.
 

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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Automatic chain tensioner sits inside the frame & am testing with the idler sprocket as well...working great to this point. Bunch of small parts make it look complicated until assembled. Rick C.
 

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