No leg burn riding or even standing next to it. Pedals keep the leg out as does the seat width. It's not even close, 8 to 10 inches I'd guess. lifting onto center stand could get you within 4 inches with a leg. Hands are a different story. R.C.
Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike
- Thread starter indian22
- Start date
So today was spent designing a bracket to hang the muffler on, tried & discarded my great bracket twice so I resorted to the the scrap bin & there it was a polished plate from a Peterbilt truck mirror bracket that was close to a perfect fit, just enlarged one hole by 1/16" & my muffler had it's bracket. Used thick 20 gauge x 1" copper tape, that must have been as old as I am, probably purchase by my Dad to weather strip doors and windows; to make three layers around the muffler & drilled a quarter inch hole through the two ends & pulled the whole affair tight to the bracket with a 1/4" bolt. Looks great & I'll think of Pops every time I look at it.
Dropped the bars about 4" & I felt more in charge of the machine as a result...looks better as well. Took her out for another short ride & I must be adapting to the bike cause everything felt kinda right. I enjoyed the feel and the sound of the little 4 stroke motor at work & both ends of the bike seemed to be in harmony. Now the crisp 50 degree day with little breeze had something to do with it... can't really explain it, yet my confidence level had to be held in check for another day. It does rip through the first three gears...total wet weight 115 lbs. dang that extra copper! 290 lbs. with the Old guy up.
Cut card board into various shapes for a small chain guard cover, but the muffler bracket should have alerted me to the no creative state I woke up in this morning...no bueno. I'll tackle that & an oil change when I'm fresh Monday. I'll have the shop to myself most of the day and few distractions to work around, unlike today with a half dozen guys servicing a large truck & replacing rear seals and bearings before lunch & their weekend off could begin. Have a safe week. Rick C.
Dropped the bars about 4" & I felt more in charge of the machine as a result...looks better as well. Took her out for another short ride & I must be adapting to the bike cause everything felt kinda right. I enjoyed the feel and the sound of the little 4 stroke motor at work & both ends of the bike seemed to be in harmony. Now the crisp 50 degree day with little breeze had something to do with it... can't really explain it, yet my confidence level had to be held in check for another day. It does rip through the first three gears...total wet weight 115 lbs. dang that extra copper! 290 lbs. with the Old guy up.
Cut card board into various shapes for a small chain guard cover, but the muffler bracket should have alerted me to the no creative state I woke up in this morning...no bueno. I'll tackle that & an oil change when I'm fresh Monday. I'll have the shop to myself most of the day and few distractions to work around, unlike today with a half dozen guys servicing a large truck & replacing rear seals and bearings before lunch & their weekend off could begin. Have a safe week. Rick C.
Sounds cool. We do love making stuff. Don't know what I would do in the Winter if I couldn't get out to the garage. Heating costs a fortune though
Some incredible ideas are implemented in winter shops & yes Butch it helps keep us sane. Curtis you got some good insulation that's for sure. Opening our 15' x 30' overheads during cold weather sucks the dollars out along with the warmth.
Rode the Simplex 3 times today for a total of maybe 10 miles. All this resulted in getting the clutch to bite properly after adjustments after the rides. Brakes both coaster & disc are set & the forks are really working well both during the ride & on braking. Air suspension on the saddle has been excellent from scat.
I also permanently mounted the coil and CDI after the coil lead to the CDI broke cause the Old guy didn't securely attach either device. Riding a few minutes and checking everything afterwards unveils a lot of problems. Better to discover them in the shop than miles from a full set of tools and spares. Test rides are about a mile out & then back, change direction and go mile out then back etc. I don't mind pedaling or pushing a bike that far if necessary so I stay close to the shop.
I'll take down the fork tomorrow as I'm still not satisfied with steering feel & nothing obvious comes to mind, so it's time to inspect each component involved & how they were assembled cause somethings just not right.
Since the weather is so mild I've decided to sort the problems and leave the cosmetic changes for later, plus this way I have a reason to ride the Cooper Gator and that's just having fun! Photos tomorrow. Oh yeah, what's the best way to get a video with sound posted? Rick C.
Rode the Simplex 3 times today for a total of maybe 10 miles. All this resulted in getting the clutch to bite properly after adjustments after the rides. Brakes both coaster & disc are set & the forks are really working well both during the ride & on braking. Air suspension on the saddle has been excellent from scat.
I also permanently mounted the coil and CDI after the coil lead to the CDI broke cause the Old guy didn't securely attach either device. Riding a few minutes and checking everything afterwards unveils a lot of problems. Better to discover them in the shop than miles from a full set of tools and spares. Test rides are about a mile out & then back, change direction and go mile out then back etc. I don't mind pedaling or pushing a bike that far if necessary so I stay close to the shop.
I'll take down the fork tomorrow as I'm still not satisfied with steering feel & nothing obvious comes to mind, so it's time to inspect each component involved & how they were assembled cause somethings just not right.
Since the weather is so mild I've decided to sort the problems and leave the cosmetic changes for later, plus this way I have a reason to ride the Cooper Gator and that's just having fun! Photos tomorrow. Oh yeah, what's the best way to get a video with sound posted? Rick C.
Rick, the best way to upload a video is to use YouTube. I transfer the clip to the computer, then edit it and add music if I wish. Then upload it to YouTube. Next I copy and paste the link here on the forum.
Thanks Greg nice to know where to begin.
Little things count & the last two days have been about little things and not much improvement, got caught up in another fabrication idea that didn't work well, so most of today was purely a learning experience for me, but at least the short ride was nice. Rick C.
Little things count & the last two days have been about little things and not much improvement, got caught up in another fabrication idea that didn't work well, so most of today was purely a learning experience for me, but at least the short ride was nice. Rick C.
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Took the forks off & re-pressed the headset races...just in case , appeared ok but found I'd installed the top bearing upside down. Greased & tightened the whole affair & now behaves as it should.
Stability in a straight line was never an issue. Gps showed I momentarily touched 50 mph yesterday & she flew straight as an arrow. Where I've set the rear axle measures a bit over 54" I'll eventually install a 3/16" pedal chain link that will bring me out to 55" axle to axle wheelbase. Increased length of the bike helps both both stability & ride quality.
Even with the air shock saddle suspension locked out the the ride is vastly superior to my other bikes. Length plus larger tires are major factors in the ride comfort equation. This is the first Sun-lite dual springer I've used & now that it's install correctly I'm well pleased with ride quality and braking with the 160 mm rotor & SRAM caliper combination is quite good...nothing scary so far.
The 125 cc engine starts easily. There's an incredible lack of vibration from the engine. The Harley style tube clamps were & are no-brainer selection for simple, good looking, high strength connection of motor to tube. Once properly installed they just can't move, even on single frame tubes, but with dual frame tubes the support geometry is tremendous.
Decided to move the CDI away from the engine heat & mounted it under the flat saddle spring just behind the front edge of the saddle where it's protected and cool. Coil is between the copper tank panels.
I don't see any major issues remaining at this point. I will follow my ride and inspect approach for a couple of weeks at least, with a bit of tightening and adjusting along the way ( I am after all the Old guy who installed the race bearing upside down) can't be too cautious or arrogant when dealing with one off builds of motorized transport, especially one that's called a Gator...they can bite! Still just having fun. Rick C.
Stability in a straight line was never an issue. Gps showed I momentarily touched 50 mph yesterday & she flew straight as an arrow. Where I've set the rear axle measures a bit over 54" I'll eventually install a 3/16" pedal chain link that will bring me out to 55" axle to axle wheelbase. Increased length of the bike helps both both stability & ride quality.
Even with the air shock saddle suspension locked out the the ride is vastly superior to my other bikes. Length plus larger tires are major factors in the ride comfort equation. This is the first Sun-lite dual springer I've used & now that it's install correctly I'm well pleased with ride quality and braking with the 160 mm rotor & SRAM caliper combination is quite good...nothing scary so far.
The 125 cc engine starts easily. There's an incredible lack of vibration from the engine. The Harley style tube clamps were & are no-brainer selection for simple, good looking, high strength connection of motor to tube. Once properly installed they just can't move, even on single frame tubes, but with dual frame tubes the support geometry is tremendous.
Decided to move the CDI away from the engine heat & mounted it under the flat saddle spring just behind the front edge of the saddle where it's protected and cool. Coil is between the copper tank panels.
I don't see any major issues remaining at this point. I will follow my ride and inspect approach for a couple of weeks at least, with a bit of tightening and adjusting along the way ( I am after all the Old guy who installed the race bearing upside down) can't be too cautious or arrogant when dealing with one off builds of motorized transport, especially one that's called a Gator...they can bite! Still just having fun. Rick C.
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It is enjoyable to ride Silver bear. Got another ride in this morning, but winds are picking up & gusting to 40 mph already...50 plus later this afternoon so the a.m. ride is it for today. Noticed yesterday it warmed to + 33 degrees at International Falls, Mn. so guess that's a heat wave for this time of year in Mn. while 80 degrees is forecast here lol. Know you're ready for the big thaw.
Parts are starting to seat in... clutch & transmission are getting into a harmonious relationship & the chains are smoothing out. I'm getting used to the steering and now that I know all is in place up front I'm starting to trust that it's going where I lead; still very quick but now only feels sporting in the turns. Held it at 40 mph for about half a mile on a rather uneven asphalt secondary road in 4th. gear. Engine was barely ticking over (no tach mounted as of yet) ride was smooth at that speed and without drama & yes I'm still thinking of DOT rated tires in the future. Not that I plan on highway cruising but it would allow me to match the speed of traffic safely for short sections of highway travel that are at times encountered on my rides.
Most impressive is the low end torque...as teenagers we used to use the term light to light (stop light) as an indication of street acceleration for one block or so...well it's as appropriate now as it was on the 12 hp Mustang 4 speed scooter back in '61 which was shockingly quick. I'm sure I'll bend spokes if I let the engine go rip from just 2nd. to 3rd. gear. I have no empirical data to back up the previous statements, but I do have 60 + years experience riding scooters and motorcycles to base it on & that plus I'm still having fun! Rick C.
Parts are starting to seat in... clutch & transmission are getting into a harmonious relationship & the chains are smoothing out. I'm getting used to the steering and now that I know all is in place up front I'm starting to trust that it's going where I lead; still very quick but now only feels sporting in the turns. Held it at 40 mph for about half a mile on a rather uneven asphalt secondary road in 4th. gear. Engine was barely ticking over (no tach mounted as of yet) ride was smooth at that speed and without drama & yes I'm still thinking of DOT rated tires in the future. Not that I plan on highway cruising but it would allow me to match the speed of traffic safely for short sections of highway travel that are at times encountered on my rides.
Most impressive is the low end torque...as teenagers we used to use the term light to light (stop light) as an indication of street acceleration for one block or so...well it's as appropriate now as it was on the 12 hp Mustang 4 speed scooter back in '61 which was shockingly quick. I'm sure I'll bend spokes if I let the engine go rip from just 2nd. to 3rd. gear. I have no empirical data to back up the previous statements, but I do have 60 + years experience riding scooters and motorcycles to base it on & that plus I'm still having fun! Rick C.
It would be nice to think that Simplex bikes were still being made...a new incarnation very much like your Gator, updated and better than the original, but still a light motorcycle. I think "they'd sell like hotcakes" as we used to say.
SB
SB
I agree Silver bear while confessing to being nostalgic at heart. I also like simple & clean while displaying the mechanics of things. Fairings & plastic covers, while cleaning up the air flow also hide the soul of the transport. The Simplex design is quite unique, check out a Simplex "Sportsman model" (yes it's an original factory model) it's quite beautiful. The Simplex forum has many beautifully restored bikes that verify my opinion. Someday I might just buy an original that's been properly restored, but for now I'm enjoying the final stage of my updated & modified "board track/flat track version" of the Simplex Servi-Cycle.
I'd love to see a comeback of these small machines, updated but retaining the flavor of the original... somewhat like California Scooters did with their update of the Mustang scooters. Rick C.
I'd love to see a comeback of these small machines, updated but retaining the flavor of the original... somewhat like California Scooters did with their update of the Mustang scooters. Rick C.
Interesting day, just doing simple stuff that adds up to safe & dependable ride. Fabricated axle adjuster brackets from 2" round rod 1/2" thick. Sliced it in half, now it looked like a large Woodruff key. Then notched each side. Followed by drilling three 1/4" holes. One for the axle adjuster rod, off center & the other two for bolt up to the drop plates. Then rounded & smoothed the both of them till they suited & bolted both to the axle drop plates in front of the axle & on a bit of an angle. Could have just cut a small diameter pipe, welded it on the plates and been done with it. I like this better.
Mirrors were lowered which eliminates vibration distortion & looks more sporting. Re-jetted the Mikuni, it was running a little rich. Replaced the no-name spark plug (went Iridium), coil, coil wire & plug connector with NGK parts.
Clutch & brake levers were swiveled lower to come in line with the lowered bars as well. Throttle control cable wire tension was bumped an additional hole...now I have better feel and a more positive throttle return.
Added 10 lbs. of air to each chamber of the saddles air shock/spring and added two turns to each of the fork springs. Warmed it up and serviced the oil.
I then took an hour long ride on a 77 degree perfect Feb. afternoon. The Simplex Copper Gator responded with a perfect performance. It ran flawlessly with no drips or errors. Checked it on return and nothing had come loose or fell off.
The Gator received quite a few thumbs up & compliments along the way. Guess I can get back to finishing her now. Rick C.
Mirrors were lowered which eliminates vibration distortion & looks more sporting. Re-jetted the Mikuni, it was running a little rich. Replaced the no-name spark plug (went Iridium), coil, coil wire & plug connector with NGK parts.
Clutch & brake levers were swiveled lower to come in line with the lowered bars as well. Throttle control cable wire tension was bumped an additional hole...now I have better feel and a more positive throttle return.
Added 10 lbs. of air to each chamber of the saddles air shock/spring and added two turns to each of the fork springs. Warmed it up and serviced the oil.
I then took an hour long ride on a 77 degree perfect Feb. afternoon. The Simplex Copper Gator responded with a perfect performance. It ran flawlessly with no drips or errors. Checked it on return and nothing had come loose or fell off.
The Gator received quite a few thumbs up & compliments along the way. Guess I can get back to finishing her now. Rick C.
Just wondering if while riding along you caught yourself with a big smile on your face. Feels good, doesn't it?
SB
SB
Oh yeah, Silver bear! 
I'll end up riding this bike a lot...
Finally got the axle adjusters fitted and rear wheel squared away & sorted a couple of electrical issues which I'd been putting off. Installed a small aluminum fuel filter to replace the big ugly plastic one & then went for a ride with my GPS recording. Really wanted to see what the Gator felt like at higher speed (not sustained) just briefly running up and holding for a few moments. She handled well with no unpleasant surprises up to a bit over 60 mph in 4th. with plenty of throttle left. 5th. gear at an estimated 45 mph was smooth, but so far off cam that acceleration was very slow. Dropping to 4th. of course was the answer but was where I would normally ride anyway. With a 54 tooth final & 28" tire height 5th. is more practical to use at over 60 mph cruising. 1st. gear is 30 feet & shift, 2nd. & 3rd. are meat & potatoes...with 4th. the normal cruising gear...5th. needs speed rated tires & wheels to be of great utility to me.
All said it's fun & wicked quick off the mark. Ludwig was right about cars & motorcycles at stop signs/lights...they drop over to pass then fall in behind to watch, can't believe a bicycle pulled them at an intersection without any effort! I cruised main street for the first time and due to the beautiful weekend weather it seems every Harley in this part of Indian Territory was out for the sun and the scenery of our beautiful little city. Each group I met it was like "eyes left" to scope out the little Copper Simplex, lot of thumbs up & it drew a crowd at the coffee shop as well, lot of questions & photos taken by most except me...I just realized I missed a great opportunity, dang! Rick C.
I'll end up riding this bike a lot...Finally got the axle adjusters fitted and rear wheel squared away & sorted a couple of electrical issues which I'd been putting off. Installed a small aluminum fuel filter to replace the big ugly plastic one & then went for a ride with my GPS recording. Really wanted to see what the Gator felt like at higher speed (not sustained) just briefly running up and holding for a few moments. She handled well with no unpleasant surprises up to a bit over 60 mph in 4th. with plenty of throttle left. 5th. gear at an estimated 45 mph was smooth, but so far off cam that acceleration was very slow. Dropping to 4th. of course was the answer but was where I would normally ride anyway. With a 54 tooth final & 28" tire height 5th. is more practical to use at over 60 mph cruising. 1st. gear is 30 feet & shift, 2nd. & 3rd. are meat & potatoes...with 4th. the normal cruising gear...5th. needs speed rated tires & wheels to be of great utility to me.
All said it's fun & wicked quick off the mark. Ludwig was right about cars & motorcycles at stop signs/lights...they drop over to pass then fall in behind to watch, can't believe a bicycle pulled them at an intersection without any effort! I cruised main street for the first time and due to the beautiful weekend weather it seems every Harley in this part of Indian Territory was out for the sun and the scenery of our beautiful little city. Each group I met it was like "eyes left" to scope out the little Copper Simplex, lot of thumbs up & it drew a crowd at the coffee shop as well, lot of questions & photos taken by most except me...I just realized I missed a great opportunity, dang! Rick C.
We had an accident at one race meeting when a CG made up 2 rows off the start. The rider went to go around a 2 stroke, the rider of which pulled out to overtake someone else. There was then a collision, followed by lots of "white man speak with forked tongue".
CGs are seen carrying whole families in SE Asia, they were designed to be hard to stall. You will find ultimately that it goes a bit flat at the top of the revs.
CGs are seen carrying whole families in SE Asia, they were designed to be hard to stall. You will find ultimately that it goes a bit flat at the top of the revs.
Ludwig you've given me straight up info on the CG 125 from scat so I'm a believer! I keep the revs in hand for sure, and will through break in. I haven't added a tach as yet. I have a hour/tach combo which I'll use to keep track of scheduled maintenance. I've used them on small engines for years. Tach is kinda in the ballpark when engine speed is steady, but does a good job of tracking hours.
Plan on a longer ride tomorrow, but will break it up with several stops along the way. I'll first address a shifter issue that I really became aware of on my last ride. The shift lever length is fine but the "toe knob" is a bit hard to locate by feel from the bicycle pedal. I hope to extend it by about 2". I caught myself looking down to find it and that's not going to work.
Also have a chain guard to design and finish etc. at some point, but good weather is going to keep me out riding I fear. Heavy work I know but someone has to do it.
Rick C.
Plan on a longer ride tomorrow, but will break it up with several stops along the way. I'll first address a shifter issue that I really became aware of on my last ride. The shift lever length is fine but the "toe knob" is a bit hard to locate by feel from the bicycle pedal. I hope to extend it by about 2". I caught myself looking down to find it and that's not going to work.
Also have a chain guard to design and finish etc. at some point, but good weather is going to keep me out riding I fear. Heavy work I know but someone has to do it.
Rick C.
"Striggling"turns out to be fun when riding. I've got to take time off in order to deal with the shift lever knob and also bring all the chains into perfect tension. The pedal side chain is a little tight & it is the only one of the three that lacks a chain tension device. I'll then add a bit of length to it & then adjust the final drive to suit. Also want to mount the hour meter/tach to track my service intervals. Miles at slow speed,with lots of startups and shutdowns are deceptive when it comes to oil and filter service. Few miles but hard miles on oil break down, loss of lubricant viscosity & gunked up filters. At least this little Gator doesn't require 8 gallons of oil per change like a Peterbilt road tractor!
Last day of super weather expecting moisture, 25 to 40 mph winds & 30 degrees colder tomorrow...wind & wet will get me back to work on the necessities before turning attention to finishing touches. Rick C.
Last day of super weather expecting moisture, 25 to 40 mph winds & 30 degrees colder tomorrow...wind & wet will get me back to work on the necessities before turning attention to finishing touches. Rick C.
I'm thinking of adding variable chain tension to the secondary drive chain of the Simplex Gator. Chain drives are so much smoother this way when set up properly. The problem, at least from my viewpoint, is the typical spring door closer appearance. To me the worst is the extension type..very unappealing; with the torsion spring being the tidiest. So I'll attempt to design one without using an extension, compression or torsional spring. Probably not too difficult to dream one up that will get the job done.
I also prefer damped steering. Moto's used leather washer's in the headset during the early days, hydraulics are more common in this age, can't decide at this point on a solution. I'd like the damper to be very unobtrusive if not completely hidden, but I would favor functionality over cosmetics of course.
I'm not experiencing steering problems at speed or under moderate braking but I've seen well design factory bikes with top notch forks take their rider to the ground under braking especially on uneven or loose surfaces. I like being pro-active in my riding safety. Rick C.
Rick C.
I also prefer damped steering. Moto's used leather washer's in the headset during the early days, hydraulics are more common in this age, can't decide at this point on a solution. I'd like the damper to be very unobtrusive if not completely hidden, but I would favor functionality over cosmetics of course.
I'm not experiencing steering problems at speed or under moderate braking but I've seen well design factory bikes with top notch forks take their rider to the ground under braking especially on uneven or loose surfaces. I like being pro-active in my riding safety. Rick C.
Rick C.