Tom from Rubicon
Well-Known Member
That is some very nice work Rick, my hat is off to you.
Tom
Indian Tadpole
- Thread starter silverbear
- Start date
Tom
indian22
Well-Known Member
High praise indeed from one with your background Tom, and yeah my patron had a lot of money tied up in my reconstruction effort the pitiful little box of original parts he purchased at auction were more than $3,500.and at that time he had no idea of how or even if it would be possible just to assemble parts to produce a reasonable likeness of the Gurley, let alone one that was fully functional for the purpose it was originally intended.
Rick C.
Rick C.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Steve it is interesting. When I saw the orange housing I wanted it immediately as I suspected it was a factory racing Briggs. I hope they do indeed order the correct parts. Everything should be readily available to do it right. It hurt me to see them flog it while it was in such condition, but the dang thang run pretty fair considering.
Now on to wooden vinegar vats and such. I've watched oak barrels being constructed a couple of times and many of our original live stock watering tanks, some quite large, from the original settler days still exist. I marvel at the skill required to make something the size of that record vinegar vat. How many gallons you'd guess? Rick C.
Your great grandfather was in the livestock acquisition business. I have a relative or at least we share the same name. He was in roadside assistance in Yorkshire England in the 1600's. If you google Swift Nick you'll see the story.
Darned old age really does affect the selective memory. Just as well the young karting enthusiast learns that your better off to get the cash out when the deal closes.
Every time you mention "Indian Territory" I think of an interesting happening. In the beginning of the 1980's I was working in a refinishing shop in Vancouver B.C. a wash stand from the the 1870/1880's came in to be refinished and as I was stripping it of it's doors ect so it would be ready to remove the finish I turned it around and on the back of it writing with the paint they used for stenciling names and addresses was a name and address.
There was the persons name and a town name then Indian Territories written freehand with a stencil brush that leaves a distinctive brush stroke. I often wondered where the Indian Territories were and I knew it must have come from the U.S. since we never used the term that I heard of.
Steve.
Darned old age really does affect the selective memory. Just as well the young karting enthusiast learns that your better off to get the cash out when the deal closes.
Every time you mention "Indian Territory" I think of an interesting happening. In the beginning of the 1980's I was working in a refinishing shop in Vancouver B.C. a wash stand from the the 1870/1880's came in to be refinished and as I was stripping it of it's doors ect so it would be ready to remove the finish I turned it around and on the back of it writing with the paint they used for stenciling names and addresses was a name and address.
There was the persons name and a town name then Indian Territories written freehand with a stencil brush that leaves a distinctive brush stroke. I often wondered where the Indian Territories were and I knew it must have come from the U.S. since we never used the term that I heard of.
Steve.
Fantastic work Rick. To be able to replicate so much of such a rare instrument is an even more rare talent. The owner, while he had the financial means to restore it, had something even more valuable than money. The ability to say he owned one of four complete instruments left in the world.
You also have the rights to say you returned a box of odds and ends into one of the four instruments and I'm sure that in the closed world of instrument collectors you became "The Guy" who can repair anything.
Getting the aged look to new work is often the hardest part of reconstruction. To match it to existing pieces is an art in itself.
Steve.
You also have the rights to say you returned a box of odds and ends into one of the four instruments and I'm sure that in the closed world of instrument collectors you became "The Guy" who can repair anything.
Getting the aged look to new work is often the hardest part of reconstruction. To match it to existing pieces is an art in itself.
Steve.
I'll enclose another video they did of a Briggs and Stratton build they did. I hope they restore the motor as well.
Vinegar vats. I don't know the gallonage Rick but it must have been in the thousands of gallons. My mother saw it as a young girl and she said it was huge. My grandmother said when she was a small girl her dad would bring home shavings from work and she would wear them around the house as a wig.
Apparently when my mother went to stay with them for a visit he took her to work one day. Mom said there were two apprentices wearing harnesses with ropes leading back to a wood plane and as they pulled the plane from either side of the stave my great grandfather leaned down on the plane as it traveled along the stave. She got to wear the shavings much to her joy.
The family photo album was lost when left with family in England when they moved to Canada but Mom said there was a photo in it of my great grandfather standing in the work shop holding a wood plane on end and it towered above him. He was probably 5'6" to 5'8" and the way Mom described it it may have been close to 8' long.
Mom said the she had heard that after the factory closed the vat was disassembled and taken to France to be used as a wine vat. I don't know how well a vinegar vat would work as a wine vat but I may have consumed some of the wine produced in it.
I'd did however manage to choke it down with great effort and little pleasure.
Steve.
Flathead Briggs Build from Scratch | Homemade Performance Mods!
Vinegar vats. I don't know the gallonage Rick but it must have been in the thousands of gallons. My mother saw it as a young girl and she said it was huge. My grandmother said when she was a small girl her dad would bring home shavings from work and she would wear them around the house as a wig.
Apparently when my mother went to stay with them for a visit he took her to work one day. Mom said there were two apprentices wearing harnesses with ropes leading back to a wood plane and as they pulled the plane from either side of the stave my great grandfather leaned down on the plane as it traveled along the stave. She got to wear the shavings much to her joy.
The family photo album was lost when left with family in England when they moved to Canada but Mom said there was a photo in it of my great grandfather standing in the work shop holding a wood plane on end and it towered above him. He was probably 5'6" to 5'8" and the way Mom described it it may have been close to 8' long.
Mom said the she had heard that after the factory closed the vat was disassembled and taken to France to be used as a wine vat. I don't know how well a vinegar vat would work as a wine vat but I may have consumed some of the wine produced in it.
I'd did however manage to choke it down with great effort and little pleasure.
Steve.
Flathead Briggs Build from Scratch | Homemade Performance Mods!
indian22
Well-Known Member
Great stuff Steve. My Simplex wears an "Indian police badge" from the city of Tahlequah pre statehood. "Indian territory" was the official government territorial name used on period documents and commonly abbreviated to I.T. which is on the base of the badge.
The "posse" photo was made up of 5 of my great uncles, two from the maternal & three paternal. Scots & Irish. These from my mother's side of the family (not the horse thief side).The oldest great uncle (not shown) was a twenty year veteran of the U.S. Marshall's service in the Indian territory and as such were the ranking law enforcement in the I.T.....Federal Judge was the judicial authority. Statehood took place in 1907. End of an era but not of lawlessness. My great uncle paid a price for his service. He never went unarmed outside his house as he feared retaliation from those he'd arrested and some he'd killed during his marshal days. His firearm of choice was Colt single action in Cal. 44-40 worn for all to see slung on a black hip holster. I really liked this old man & he sure had some tales to tell! He carried this weapon way into his eighties, but hung it up finally saying he had outlived them all. He died peacefully at home age of 94. r.i.p.
Rick C.
The "posse" photo was made up of 5 of my great uncles, two from the maternal & three paternal. Scots & Irish. These from my mother's side of the family (not the horse thief side).The oldest great uncle (not shown) was a twenty year veteran of the U.S. Marshall's service in the Indian territory and as such were the ranking law enforcement in the I.T.....Federal Judge was the judicial authority. Statehood took place in 1907. End of an era but not of lawlessness. My great uncle paid a price for his service. He never went unarmed outside his house as he feared retaliation from those he'd arrested and some he'd killed during his marshal days. His firearm of choice was Colt single action in Cal. 44-40 worn for all to see slung on a black hip holster. I really liked this old man & he sure had some tales to tell! He carried this weapon way into his eighties, but hung it up finally saying he had outlived them all. He died peacefully at home age of 94. r.i.p.
Rick C.
My Dad was born in a small land locked city in 1906. The cities name is Kenora Ont. There was one and a half miles of paved road and wagon tracks on either side coming or going. Major logging center in it's day and very modern for the times. North of where Silverbear lives in Minnesota.
A family friend who was a North-West Mounted Police officer the fore runner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police of today. He had been with them since the force was assembled and Dad said he never retired but was sent to Kenora as a working retiree.
He used to take my Dad and his brothers bird hunting. He'd go down to the livery stable and ask for a horse that wasn't gun shy and a wagon and off they would go and fill the wagon full of partridge. While they were traveling along he tell them about what it was like when he was young. This would have been towards the end of WW1.
The one story that Dad told me that he was told and has stayed with me all these year is this.
Canada didn't hear about the Battle of the Little Bighorn for quite some time after if happened. As Sitting bull moved north towards the Medicine Line [border] he sent word that he was coming so as not to upset the Canadian Government.
The response was to send five Northwest-Mounted Police and an officer to meet him. They weren't worried it seems about Sitting Bull but the chance that the U.S. forces might follow him into Canada and attack him.
The family friend was one of the five N.W.M.P. in that patrol. Dad said he spoke glowingly of Sitting Bull whom he met many times.
Our age group is the last bridge between what was in those days and today as we heard the stories from those that lived them or told our parents about them.
Steve.
A family friend who was a North-West Mounted Police officer the fore runner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police of today. He had been with them since the force was assembled and Dad said he never retired but was sent to Kenora as a working retiree.
He used to take my Dad and his brothers bird hunting. He'd go down to the livery stable and ask for a horse that wasn't gun shy and a wagon and off they would go and fill the wagon full of partridge. While they were traveling along he tell them about what it was like when he was young. This would have been towards the end of WW1.
The one story that Dad told me that he was told and has stayed with me all these year is this.
Canada didn't hear about the Battle of the Little Bighorn for quite some time after if happened. As Sitting bull moved north towards the Medicine Line [border] he sent word that he was coming so as not to upset the Canadian Government.
The response was to send five Northwest-Mounted Police and an officer to meet him. They weren't worried it seems about Sitting Bull but the chance that the U.S. forces might follow him into Canada and attack him.
The family friend was one of the five N.W.M.P. in that patrol. Dad said he spoke glowingly of Sitting Bull whom he met many times.
Our age group is the last bridge between what was in those days and today as we heard the stories from those that lived them or told our parents about them.
Steve.
I have the clutch cable stop made. This will hold the outer cable housing in place acting as a stop as the inner cable activates the clutch.
I started out with marvelous plans of what it should be complete with lightening holes. In the end to make it fit it looks like an upside down L.
My professional, make it look great, pride took a beating.
Rats!
Steve.
I started out with marvelous plans of what it should be complete with lightening holes. In the end to make it fit it looks like an upside down L.
My professional, make it look great, pride took a beating.
Rats!
Steve.
Keep coming back to look at your relatives sitting on their horses Rick. Clean cut and look like they are riding into town for a social evening at a church gathering rather than risking their live to chase down some of the most hardened and dangerous criminals that ever infested the U.S.
Scot's and Irish. I saw something an English General wrote about the Scots and it applies to the Irish as well since they intermingled over the centuries.
Scots are men God made mad. For all their wars are happy and all their songs sad.
English General 1689.
Steve.
Scot's and Irish. I saw something an English General wrote about the Scots and it applies to the Irish as well since they intermingled over the centuries.
Scots are men God made mad. For all their wars are happy and all their songs sad.
English General 1689.
Steve.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Steve I'd say your clutch enclosure & stop will look just fine, if not you will alter to suit.
Bird hunting is something I've greatly enjoyed & it's mention pulls many outings to memory of family & friends.
Your mounted police were much admired by myself and others my age due to watching the "Sargent Preston of the Yukon" television series during the '50's. That uniform was and is so striking & yet so foreign to us lads of the prairies and of course the dogs and horses featured we readily related to. Most of us were riding soon after walking and dogs were our buddies and constant companions on all adventures. I'd hate to think how many of us would have been struck by rattle snakes had it not been for the dogs!
Custer has never been a hero to me. I only listed my mother's people earlier, but on my father's side it was Choctaw, Cherokee & French. My great grandmother was full blood Choctaw & my great grandfather half Cherokee & half French...both on my Da's side of the tree. My "Indian22" handle is not just about motorcycles. Custer led a cowardly attack against a sleeping village of aged men and women with children, completely unable to defend themselves, killing most. This occurred about 50 miles away from where I sit, on the Washita river. This so called victorious "battle" led by Custer was the lead up to the encounter at Little big horn & that time both sides were armed.
My family leased Indian land from the Lakota Sioux here in I.T. & each year tribal representatives from the Dakota's would visit family in this area and also collect rent's due. Helen Red bird was in charge of these transactions & she was a very pretty young lady with a college education both of these things impressed me as a lad & still do after more than 60 years.
I'm so glad to hear that Canada treated those native Americans with a degree of respect & that a friend of your family was a part of the protection afforded...'cause Uncle Sam never did...to my country's great shame. Rick C.
Bird hunting is something I've greatly enjoyed & it's mention pulls many outings to memory of family & friends.
Your mounted police were much admired by myself and others my age due to watching the "Sargent Preston of the Yukon" television series during the '50's. That uniform was and is so striking & yet so foreign to us lads of the prairies and of course the dogs and horses featured we readily related to. Most of us were riding soon after walking and dogs were our buddies and constant companions on all adventures. I'd hate to think how many of us would have been struck by rattle snakes had it not been for the dogs!
Custer has never been a hero to me. I only listed my mother's people earlier, but on my father's side it was Choctaw, Cherokee & French. My great grandmother was full blood Choctaw & my great grandfather half Cherokee & half French...both on my Da's side of the tree. My "Indian22" handle is not just about motorcycles. Custer led a cowardly attack against a sleeping village of aged men and women with children, completely unable to defend themselves, killing most. This occurred about 50 miles away from where I sit, on the Washita river. This so called victorious "battle" led by Custer was the lead up to the encounter at Little big horn & that time both sides were armed.
My family leased Indian land from the Lakota Sioux here in I.T. & each year tribal representatives from the Dakota's would visit family in this area and also collect rent's due. Helen Red bird was in charge of these transactions & she was a very pretty young lady with a college education both of these things impressed me as a lad & still do after more than 60 years.
I'm so glad to hear that Canada treated those native Americans with a degree of respect & that a friend of your family was a part of the protection afforded...'cause Uncle Sam never did...to my country's great shame. Rick C.
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Tom from Rubicon
Well-Known Member
Steve and Rick, remembrances you have posted need a wider memory bank. Forums or museum documentation. Most of my grandparents were born post Civil War. One Great great Uncle John Beaver fought for the Union.
Tom
Tom
Ludwig II
Well-Known Member
Your internal histories are closer than ours in that respect, although I can find churches within 4 miles of this sofa that have grooves in the churchyard walls from soldiers, 300 years apart, sharpening swords. The human animal's very good at being very bad. These things make me appreciate so much of my life and so many people that I encounter. I'm glad to be here. Frankly, after the heart attack in 2011, I'm glad to be anywhere.
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indian22
Well-Known Member
My great uncle Marion Meeler, the I.T. Marshall always wore a starched white shirt with bolo tie & dress coat...summer or winter in public. He wore a long tailed dark blue jacket in winter & switched to a shorter jacket in grey for the warmer months. This had been his working uniform in the Marshall's service, but not mandatory. Of course western style riding boots and grey beaver felt Stetson (un creased) which made his 6 ft. frame seem much larger. The handlebar mustache added to the persona; as did that nickel plate, stag horn grip Colt's S.A. army side arm on his right hip. He used to walk the 7 blocks to visit us and have his coffee with us when he was in his mid eighties and this how I remember him. Very proper, his father was a Baptist circuit preacher in the Indian Territory & my great uncle said he arrested the ones his Da couldn't save. All these men were the sons of the civil war veterans and on my Dad's side the veterans of the Revolution. They had settled in Maryland & Virginia in 1736 and the original, restored home is still occupied by my relatives today in N.E. Maryland.
Rick C.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Ludwig we pass it off as the human condition & go right about the business of slaughter, in the name of whatever. As for me I'm sticking to my childish pursuits of bikes and such as a happy penance and a reminder to do no harm to others as I enjoy my second childhood and that of others.
I'm needing some input on what straight line forces are at play when motorizing front, rear & sidecar wheels without changing the basic sidecar setup. Then when making turns to one side then the other; as well as running only two of the three motors at one time, especially front wheel of bike and sidecar wheel while making basic maneuvers.
Electric sidecar wheel and electric hub on the front of the Simplex with the 125cc gas powering the rear...both the electrics matched in output, around 4,000 watts total the pair at 48 volts say.
Rick C.
I follow a chap on YouTube, Rich Rebuilds. He buys and rebuilds or parts out Tesla's. Mostly burned out cars but as he said the battery packs are usually good.
Here is a video of what happens when a knowledgeable builder/rebuilder besides not to use the proper charger and a BMS [battery management system] when charging a battery.
There are 4 videos. The third one has all the action.
Steve.
Daisy The Tesla Powered Disney Car 4 videos
Here is a video of what happens when a knowledgeable builder/rebuilder besides not to use the proper charger and a BMS [battery management system] when charging a battery.
There are 4 videos. The third one has all the action.
Steve.
Daisy The Tesla Powered Disney Car 4 videos
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indian22
Well-Known Member
Steve I watched all four videos. What a shame! I loved the little Daisy car. Thanks for bringing up these issues. I will not be using lithium batteries to power my sidecar, but am learning all I can about the lithium packs for potential future use on projects. We all use the lithium batteries and charger daily with little concern for any dangers they potentially represent. Properly setup lithium systems would seem to pose no more threat than alternative power sources. The major lesson to be learned from this video and others is that the engineers who design commercial systems do so by following certain well founded parameters based on science & testing. Amateur fabricators would do well not to significantly deviate from proven practice when assembling component parts, as each has a necessary function which contributes to the successful and safe operation of any particular system. I like innovation, but I don't ignore my own lack of understanding when it comes to utilizing specific, proven technology. I suppose my decision to stick with lead cell batteries has as much to do with my still fledgling knowledge of lithium battery systems as it does with wanting the additional weight to balance the sidecar handling. I do understand a great deal more about the safe wiring and charging of these 12 volt systems in series or parallel, but am still in the dark as it pertains to the controllers and battery management systems. I'm relying totally at this point on the designing engineers to have sorted this out for me.
The fire footage was instructive. The lithium batteries remind me of magnesium or worse white phosphorus burning. I've fired many rounds of "willie Pete" during various altercations & can testify to it's horrible effects. During the lithium battery install I was curious that no mention of controller or specialized lithium battery charger was made, fusing, wiring etc. I was also put off by the lack of attention paid to fixing some very obvious safety issues, steering wheel etc. before adding more power... and why did they think more power was important for this little parade toy?
Old guy proceeding with some added caution!
Rick C.
The fire footage was instructive. The lithium batteries remind me of magnesium or worse white phosphorus burning. I've fired many rounds of "willie Pete" during various altercations & can testify to it's horrible effects. During the lithium battery install I was curious that no mention of controller or specialized lithium battery charger was made, fusing, wiring etc. I was also put off by the lack of attention paid to fixing some very obvious safety issues, steering wheel etc. before adding more power... and why did they think more power was important for this little parade toy?
Old guy proceeding with some added caution!
Rick C.
Ludwig II
Well-Known Member
Conventionally, on r/h chair, you approach a corner slowly when turning right, and accelerate the bike around the chair; lefts, approach faster and then roll the throttle off and inertia swings the sidecar around the bike.
I'm in the dark about using the powered front wheel and the bike engine, but I suspect there will be an increase in understeer, where the outfit will want to run wider, especially on wet roads or loose surfaces. When only using the two electric wheels, my head believes you will have a more neutral behaviour.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Thanks for taking time to respond Ludwig. You had previously stated this is the rigs conventional behavior and the correct riding technique employed to assist in both types of turns & that's what I'd based my thoughts on. Your thinking on understeer of the rig with all three motors running has, I believe, merit as well. Even if understeer isn't substantially increased with all three motors under approximately the same power (which in practice would be hard for a rider to consistently control) what benefit would be gained? I'm leaning in the direction of thinking three motors or even two are of no real benefit in the turns, but I'm guessing here?
That leaves straight line running to consider & the only real benefit that I'm seeing is in situations where the bikes gas engine is either inoperable or when extremely quiet motoring is required. My thinking is that because the chair motor is always torqueing & pushing for a left turn, especially with required toe in & off perpendicular bike attitude; much effort by the rider would be required to keep the rig on a somewhat straight path. A motor hub on the front wheel would help offset this, I'm speculating here, and somewhat offset the car wheel's torqueing tendency.
This is something to ponder though I doubt I'd add a third motor to the Simplex build. My purpose is still for rig reverse and slow speed forward maneuvering of the rig in tight space and the single electric motor mounted on the chair wheel should suffice.
Additional thoughts are appreciated at any time.
1,800 watt dc motor parts just arrived.
Rick C.
That leaves straight line running to consider & the only real benefit that I'm seeing is in situations where the bikes gas engine is either inoperable or when extremely quiet motoring is required. My thinking is that because the chair motor is always torqueing & pushing for a left turn, especially with required toe in & off perpendicular bike attitude; much effort by the rider would be required to keep the rig on a somewhat straight path. A motor hub on the front wheel would help offset this, I'm speculating here, and somewhat offset the car wheel's torqueing tendency.
This is something to ponder though I doubt I'd add a third motor to the Simplex build. My purpose is still for rig reverse and slow speed forward maneuvering of the rig in tight space and the single electric motor mounted on the chair wheel should suffice.
Additional thoughts are appreciated at any time.
1,800 watt dc motor parts just arrived.
Rick C.