Hercules Trike rebuild
- Thread starter Intrepid Wheelwoman
- Start date
cannonball2
Well-Known Member
Take it easy Steampunk Girl, you got the rest of your life to do this!
My hats off to you for being able to braze with propane! I have always had the luxury of an oxy/acet set up, which I sadly don't have any more.
Mapp gas is supposed to be hotter than propane, I have been eying one of those set ups at the big box store but have been doubtful. Maybe I will give it a whirl.
I strongly second the belt drive idea. Would be a simple matter of welding a pulley to the CGs engine sprocket if there is room. A flat plate sprocket like use on a transmission for a lawn tractor could the be modded to bolt to the CG sprocket and just throw and idlet in to tension the belt and you are done. Would work well with the cent clutch especially if you added a pull start. Belts are so much nicer!
My hats off to you for being able to braze with propane! I have always had the luxury of an oxy/acet set up, which I sadly don't have any more.
Mapp gas is supposed to be hotter than propane, I have been eying one of those set ups at the big box store but have been doubtful. Maybe I will give it a whirl.
I strongly second the belt drive idea. Would be a simple matter of welding a pulley to the CGs engine sprocket if there is room. A flat plate sprocket like use on a transmission for a lawn tractor could the be modded to bolt to the CG sprocket and just throw and idlet in to tension the belt and you are done. Would work well with the cent clutch especially if you added a pull start. Belts are so much nicer!
Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
Thanks CB 
I guess after being unable to do much for so long I made the mistake of wanting to it all at once right now.
Even though MAPP gas makes a hotter flame I wanted to see if it was possible to braze with propane and the verdict is, - yes you can, but you have to be patient. I actually own a near new oxy-acetylene torch set with hoses and gauges, but the reason why I don't use it is that hiring gas bottles from the welding specialty companies is too expensive for the average home user. As for owning my own gas bottles forget it as the price for new ones is horrible.
I would recommend that you buy one of these propane/MAPP torch sets CB. I've only just started using mine and already it's gone to the top of my list of essential tools to own. The thing to watch though when buying a propane torch is that you need a 'turbo' torch which has a special air mixing arrangement that gives a hotter flame. Some of the cheaper 'handyman' torches don't have this feature.
For a start I will set this motor attachment I'm building up with a chain drive, but when I work on the chain stays on the drive side I'll make it possible to fit a drive pulley to the wheel later on. What I want to do eventually is do the SA 3 speed hub as a countershaft trick, only with the final drive by belt rather than chain.
And yes of course a pull starter would make life a lot simpler so I'd better look into tracking one down.
I guess after being unable to do much for so long I made the mistake of wanting to it all at once right now. Even though MAPP gas makes a hotter flame I wanted to see if it was possible to braze with propane and the verdict is, - yes you can, but you have to be patient. I actually own a near new oxy-acetylene torch set with hoses and gauges, but the reason why I don't use it is that hiring gas bottles from the welding specialty companies is too expensive for the average home user. As for owning my own gas bottles forget it as the price for new ones is horrible.
I would recommend that you buy one of these propane/MAPP torch sets CB. I've only just started using mine and already it's gone to the top of my list of essential tools to own. The thing to watch though when buying a propane torch is that you need a 'turbo' torch which has a special air mixing arrangement that gives a hotter flame. Some of the cheaper 'handyman' torches don't have this feature.
For a start I will set this motor attachment I'm building up with a chain drive, but when I work on the chain stays on the drive side I'll make it possible to fit a drive pulley to the wheel later on. What I want to do eventually is do the SA 3 speed hub as a countershaft trick, only with the final drive by belt rather than chain.
And yes of course a pull starter would make life a lot simpler so I'd better look into tracking one down.
Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
More brazing got done today, but I was careful not to work at it for too long. No pictures yet because I'll wait until I'm finished doing all the chain stays.
Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
Today was a good day for getting some more done on the motorised attachment. The attachment may be belt driven so I thought I'd show you an experiment I tried with making a sheave. I took a 20inch wheel rim intended for a 1 & 3/8 inch tyre and carefully narrowed it by squeezing it in the vice. By gradually working my way around the rim I ended up with something a 'V' belt might want to work with. It's not perfect as it's my first try, but it does prove that the method might be good enough to make a workable sheave.
With the brazing finished on the non-drive side I worked on getting the chain stay for the drive side shaped and ready for a trial fit. And yes the chain stays aren't visually symmetrical because I'm allowing for a drive belt to be fitted later on as well as a SA 3 speed hub to be fitted as a countershaft gearbox according to the Cannonball method.
That was the cleanest 3 speed hub I could find amongst my spare bike bits by the way
I really do need to get myself a new MAPP gas canister on Monday though as there are some brazed joints to be done on the motorised attachment that propane just can't put enough heat into.
With the brazing finished on the non-drive side I worked on getting the chain stay for the drive side shaped and ready for a trial fit. And yes the chain stays aren't visually symmetrical because I'm allowing for a drive belt to be fitted later on as well as a SA 3 speed hub to be fitted as a countershaft gearbox according to the Cannonball method.
That was the cleanest 3 speed hub I could find amongst my spare bike bits by the way
I really do need to get myself a new MAPP gas canister on Monday though as there are some brazed joints to be done on the motorised attachment that propane just can't put enough heat into.
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silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
That's a good idea using the vice to draw in the rim edges on the 20" wheel. I have two candidates myself and want to make the sides parallel to the spokes. I have a set of whizzer sheave mounts to attach to a stout wheel I made up from an old Schwinn 26" rim, Bendix red band coaster brake hub and 10 gauge used spokes from a tandem Schwinn.
The sheave candidates are neither one parallel, but one almost is. I'll try drawing in the other one to see how it goes. Thanks for sharing the idea.
By the way, on another build I have a Whizzer sheave and it is virtually the same diameter as the rim from the 20" wheel (16").
SB
The sheave candidates are neither one parallel, but one almost is. I'll try drawing in the other one to see how it goes. Thanks for sharing the idea.
By the way, on another build I have a Whizzer sheave and it is virtually the same diameter as the rim from the 20" wheel (16").
SB
Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
Silverbear, I did the 20inch rim freehand in the vice, but on reflection it might be better to have a piece of hardwood cut to the right thickness to place in the well of the rim as an aid to keeping the drawing in even.
AWESOME IDEA! Just one of them things you never think of until someone else does it. If you used the block like you say on a fatter rim you may even be able to trim the outer lip down to provide acses for mounting with screws in the back lip, just a thought.........Curt
Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
Could be worth a try Curt. I think I have another spare rim the same size stashed away somewhere.
From the weird stuff the Intrepid Wheelwoman gets up to department; - I've just received a 70 litre stainless steel stockpot this morning which will become a charcoal gasifier. $NZ30.00 delivered from a warehouse clearance makes it a really cool bargain and beats trying to use a plain mild steel drum instead.
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
What a good deal you got on that stockpot!
SB
SB
Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
Yes indeed Silverbear, that stockpot is almost large enough to rent out as a spare room
I really would hate to be a chef though and have to heave something like that around when it was both full and hot.
Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
This is what I'm working towards with my trike. This bike is not mine, it belongs to a member of the Drive on Wood forum, but the gasifier and the other parts are similar to what I'm going to be setting up.
The interesting part of all this will be seeing wot a China Girl thinks of a diet of biogas.
The interesting part of all this will be seeing wot a China Girl thinks of a diet of biogas.
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silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Anne,
First off, I like your logo design for Bees Knees... it's the cat's meow! Also thanks for the charcoal gas bike photos and want you to know that I just now joined up with the website. Now that rig is of a size that is reasonable to haul around and with the stainless steel crockpot is nice looking, too. I know Mike LaRosa from the yahoo woodgas forum... a really knowledgable guy. Most wood gas stuff is for big engines, so it is nice to find something also useful for small stuff... like bike sized.
I'm rethinking my 1963 Schwinn American Deluxe hybrid trike project... the one I am making with the Atco mower rear end using a 98cc Villiars engine with kick start and dog clutch in conjunction with an electric front wheel. Since it is already leaning toward the world of steam punk creations I may let it go all the way and power the engine with charcoal wood gas. My trike is a good year away from being roadworthy anyway, so there is plenty of time to think about it and gather parts. I'd like to keep the engine low and perhaps run the charcoal unit above it, keeping the weight centered between the wheels. I already have the stout rear end for it with the wheels I made for the differential axle. I'm also thinking that this is the perfect setup for using an old three speed Sturmey Archer internally geared hub for a transmission to get the most benefit from the low reving Villiars engine. It would be pretty simple utilizing the Atco cradle for making up the transmission setup.
You must realize and accept some responsibility for contributing to the delinquency of a geezer by the example of your own project. Our goals are similar enough that I can benefit from your experience as you are well ahead of me in this project. Good for me to have someone to bounce ideas off of and learn from. I suspect that our friend cannonball 2 is going to help give us some guidance. I can use all the guidance I can get.
This trike project is gonna be some kinda fun!
SB
First off, I like your logo design for Bees Knees... it's the cat's meow! Also thanks for the charcoal gas bike photos and want you to know that I just now joined up with the website. Now that rig is of a size that is reasonable to haul around and with the stainless steel crockpot is nice looking, too. I know Mike LaRosa from the yahoo woodgas forum... a really knowledgable guy. Most wood gas stuff is for big engines, so it is nice to find something also useful for small stuff... like bike sized.
I'm rethinking my 1963 Schwinn American Deluxe hybrid trike project... the one I am making with the Atco mower rear end using a 98cc Villiars engine with kick start and dog clutch in conjunction with an electric front wheel. Since it is already leaning toward the world of steam punk creations I may let it go all the way and power the engine with charcoal wood gas. My trike is a good year away from being roadworthy anyway, so there is plenty of time to think about it and gather parts. I'd like to keep the engine low and perhaps run the charcoal unit above it, keeping the weight centered between the wheels. I already have the stout rear end for it with the wheels I made for the differential axle. I'm also thinking that this is the perfect setup for using an old three speed Sturmey Archer internally geared hub for a transmission to get the most benefit from the low reving Villiars engine. It would be pretty simple utilizing the Atco cradle for making up the transmission setup.
You must realize and accept some responsibility for contributing to the delinquency of a geezer by the example of your own project. Our goals are similar enough that I can benefit from your experience as you are well ahead of me in this project. Good for me to have someone to bounce ideas off of and learn from. I suspect that our friend cannonball 2 is going to help give us some guidance. I can use all the guidance I can get.
This trike project is gonna be some kinda fun!
SB
Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
Gosh, how naughty of me to lead you astray Silverbear 
I'm glad you've joined 'Drive on Wood' because the level of expertise there is really amazing and the forum members are friendly and willing to give advice to new chums. So you know Mike LaRosa, - he certainly has a good deal of experience with wood gasification and running vehicles on wood.
When I saw all the big V8 trucks on the forum with major plumber's nightmare gasification installations I had my doubts at first, but there's also forum members who are keen on smaller gasifiers suitable for running motorcycles and small engines.
When I joined the forum and explained what I was wanting to do the help and advice offered was immediate and I was very quickly set on the right path to take with my project. For motorcycles and motor-bicycles/tricycles charcoal gasification is best and is certainly the system that was commonly used for motorcycles during the war years in Europe. Wood gasification has the potential to make more power as it fully uses all the energy in the wood, but for a motor-bicycle/tricycle there would be so much plumbing needed there would be no room for the rider! There are a few Russian sidecar outfits running around with full wood gasification plants, but then they have the structural strength and power to haul them about.
If for some reason I end up with more installation than my trike is happy with I've still got my Phoenix sidecar rickshaw up my sleeve as a fall back
I'm going to setup my trike to have dual fuel so I can still run on petrol if I need to. Apparently that can help by being able to get the engine running easily and then changing over to gas once the system's warmed up and working. Feeding the oily exhaust back into the gasifier's air intake helps to control the charcoal burn and is also an additional source of useful hydrocarbons as well.
Whether or not my faux-Villiers disguised China Girl will like being fed biogas is going to be somewhat of an experiment, but then I can replace it with a real Villiers engine if I have to.
I really do like what you're proposing with your 1963 Schwinn American Deluxe hybrid trike project Silverbear. Your trike will be a very sound and practical testbed to mount a gasifier on and it will indeed look appropriately steampunkish once it's all together
Despite the fun involved in such a project the reason why I want to put time into building a functioning gasifier is that petrol is only going to get more expensive and eventually shortages are going to be a commonplace event. It would be nice to be ready and familiar with alternative fuel tech before that happens.
Thanks for saying nice things about the 'Bee's Knees' logo, I really like it too
I grew up with hearing the adults around me saying xyz was the bee's knees and I was much puzzled by it when I was a wee tot.
I'm glad you've joined 'Drive on Wood' because the level of expertise there is really amazing and the forum members are friendly and willing to give advice to new chums. So you know Mike LaRosa, - he certainly has a good deal of experience with wood gasification and running vehicles on wood.
When I saw all the big V8 trucks on the forum with major plumber's nightmare gasification installations I had my doubts at first, but there's also forum members who are keen on smaller gasifiers suitable for running motorcycles and small engines.
When I joined the forum and explained what I was wanting to do the help and advice offered was immediate and I was very quickly set on the right path to take with my project. For motorcycles and motor-bicycles/tricycles charcoal gasification is best and is certainly the system that was commonly used for motorcycles during the war years in Europe. Wood gasification has the potential to make more power as it fully uses all the energy in the wood, but for a motor-bicycle/tricycle there would be so much plumbing needed there would be no room for the rider! There are a few Russian sidecar outfits running around with full wood gasification plants, but then they have the structural strength and power to haul them about.
If for some reason I end up with more installation than my trike is happy with I've still got my Phoenix sidecar rickshaw up my sleeve as a fall back
I'm going to setup my trike to have dual fuel so I can still run on petrol if I need to. Apparently that can help by being able to get the engine running easily and then changing over to gas once the system's warmed up and working. Feeding the oily exhaust back into the gasifier's air intake helps to control the charcoal burn and is also an additional source of useful hydrocarbons as well.
Whether or not my faux-Villiers disguised China Girl will like being fed biogas is going to be somewhat of an experiment, but then I can replace it with a real Villiers engine if I have to.
I really do like what you're proposing with your 1963 Schwinn American Deluxe hybrid trike project Silverbear. Your trike will be a very sound and practical testbed to mount a gasifier on and it will indeed look appropriately steampunkish once it's all together
Despite the fun involved in such a project the reason why I want to put time into building a functioning gasifier is that petrol is only going to get more expensive and eventually shortages are going to be a commonplace event. It would be nice to be ready and familiar with alternative fuel tech before that happens.
Thanks for saying nice things about the 'Bee's Knees' logo, I really like it too
I grew up with hearing the adults around me saying xyz was the bee's knees and I was much puzzled by it when I was a wee tot.
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Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
A wee update while I have an afternoon cuppa. The local courier driver delivered a very nice brass stirrup pump this morning. This is something no Intrepid Wheelwoman should be without
Surprisingly it was remarkably cheap which is unusual as trendy airheads who want to make their gardens look rustic have pushed the going rate for one of these through the roof.
Got my photo snapped while I was at my workbench getting ready to do some brazing so I thought I'd share it with you.
My daughter has asked if she can get me to fit an electric motor on my tricycle so she can check out her prototype controller design. A small interruption to the busy schedule here at Bee's Knees Engineering, but I said that it was Ok and that I'd do that for her. Afterall I'd made the claim that my motorised attachment was able to be fitted with a number of different engines and motors so I suppose this will be a practical acid test.
I can still work on the gasifier while my daughter's borrowing my tricycle so I'm not especially bothered.
Surprisingly it was remarkably cheap which is unusual as trendy airheads who want to make their gardens look rustic have pushed the going rate for one of these through the roof.
Got my photo snapped while I was at my workbench getting ready to do some brazing so I thought I'd share it with you.
My daughter has asked if she can get me to fit an electric motor on my tricycle so she can check out her prototype controller design. A small interruption to the busy schedule here at Bee's Knees Engineering, but I said that it was Ok and that I'd do that for her. Afterall I'd made the claim that my motorised attachment was able to be fitted with a number of different engines and motors so I suppose this will be a practical acid test.
I can still work on the gasifier while my daughter's borrowing my tricycle so I'm not especially bothered.
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silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
What is a stirrup pump, and how will it become part of your gasifier?
SB
SB
Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
Stirrup pumps were used for pumping out large buckets and similar containers by hand. They were sometimes used for firefighting back in the early part of the 20th century. They are very much a British colonies type of thing and are one of those iconic objects that appear in classic British comedies from time to time.
As to what I'm going to use it for I don't know yet. I got the thing on a cheeky low bid that came in much to my surprise, but I do know it's one of those useful objects that I shall shortly find a use for
As to what I'm going to use it for I don't know yet. I got the thing on a cheeky low bid that came in much to my surprise, but I do know it's one of those useful objects that I shall shortly find a use for
Intrepid Wheelwoman
New Member
I haven't been all that well this past week which is why I haven't been active on the forum lately. I seem to be getting better now though so I should be able to get back into my projects again.
I've placed an order with Iron maiden for the steel I need to lengthen my tricycle's wheelbase and that should arrive some time after Easter. The method I've figured out to lengthen the wheelbase is completely bolt up so I can use the conversion section on another frame if I want to or need to.
I've placed an order with Iron maiden for the steel I need to lengthen my tricycle's wheelbase and that should arrive some time after Easter. The method I've figured out to lengthen the wheelbase is completely bolt up so I can use the conversion section on another frame if I want to or need to.
silverbear
The Boy Who Never Grew Up
I've been kind of figuring you were going through a rough spell. Glad to hear you're coming through it. I'll be interested to see how you do a bolt together frame extension.
SB
SB