Help.. Broken Bottom engine casing.

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Missmichelleb, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    I think it's a lady's thread by the username. :)
     
  2. BarelyAWake

    BarelyAWake New Member

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    Dangit! *facepalm*
     
  3. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    It is a lady's post... thanks for noticing ;)

    No worries about the whole jb weld discussion.. very interesting. I dont really know much about the stuff.. but it did allow me to repair a leak in my gas tank once.. which was a life saver, the stuff i'm using works like clay so its kinda cool, and it hardens in like an hour, and i have to say if it works well for this repair ill be a fan. But i think like anything else, it needs to be used in the right way for the right thing... and the woodruff key isnt it.

    So yeah.... I'm about to change that seal and re-insert the woodruff key. I bought brand new ones so they are in good condition, but i'm having a hard time even getting that little thing in the right place, but i'm going to change that seal before i work on it too much. Ill post pics alittle later.
     
  4. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    so it seems like my half moon key is a bit too big.. i cant fit it into the groove. Any suggestions? Should i try to file the key smaller?
     
  5. Kevlarr

    Kevlarr New Member

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    I had to with mine. I just put the key on the end of my finger and slid it on a fine file until it fit snugly.
    Also my keyway got a little buggered during my teardown and it just so happened that the tang of the file I used on the key was a perfect fit to clean out the bur that was in it. :D
     
  6. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    So it looks like i will need to buy some kind of file to file this key. Does anyone have any suggestions of what type of file i should get? Also if anyone has a pic of one that would be awesome... i really have no clue what i'm looking for here.

    Thanks :)
     
  7. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman New Member

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    Just go get a piece of sandpaper, I'd use what is called wet or dry (has a stronger backing), it's color is dark gray to black. Found in any auto parts store that sells automotive paint, or a paint store that mixes automotive paint. You will need only 1 sheet, if you know someone in a auto body repair shop you might be able to beg or buy a sheet. Come to think of it, I think China Mart (Wal Mart) carries it. A knife sharpening stone can be used.

    Definition: An abrasive paper that can be used with water or other lubricants, making possible the sanding of some plastics and metals that is not possible with dry sanding.

    Google
     
  8. Kevlarr

    Kevlarr New Member

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    Wait, never pass up an opportunity to get more tools! :D

    Heres a good one at Lowes for under $5 which is only a few $ more then a pack of wet/dry will cost.

    [​IMG]

    Whatever file you get get what's called a "single-cut" file.
     
  9. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    I'd opt for the file.
     
  10. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman New Member

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    So would I, and have a drawer full of them but we are not tool illiterate. This might be the only time he uses a file. I'm sure that if money is spent on tools, a file is not where he needs to start. There are quite a large number of members on here that are broke azz busted (maybe that is why the HT has so much interest), he might be one. Wanted to point out other options for anyone reading this thread. And 1 sheet of GOOD sandpaper costs about $0.50. Less then $1.00 a sheet when bought online, including shipping. Pack of 10 sheets for $1.49 +sh
     
  11. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    The OP of this thread is a lady. And so far I am impressed with her determination to get the job done.

    I vote for a fine toothed file too.
     
  12. Creative Engineering

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    Missmichelleb,

    Did you find out for sure what caused the problem...it is unlikely that the woodruff key could do that!

    Jim
     
  13. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    My concern is how the woodruff came completely out in the first place. Actually Jim, I could see it getting jammed between the gears and the lower case. There isn't much room between them and the under power the aluminum case might get broken. I just don't quite understand how the key came completely out of the keyways. There isn't enough room on the back side and the gear should have held it in on the outboard side.
    Seems like I recall reading an old post where a guy found a key inside the cover on a new engine but it was an extra that had apparently been left inside during assembly from the factory. Anyone else recall that one? A loose woodruff key could potentially do a lot of damage if it got into the right place.
    As for making one fit, either the file or sandpaper method will work but the file would be quicker. A flat surface would be essential if you opt for the sandpaper/emory cloth idea. A flat concrete floor or a metal surface to lay the abrasive on then rub the key on it until it fits the keyways. The file will be flat so all you need to do is keep the material removal consistent over the surface of the key so it isn't tapered but the sides parallel.
    Tom
     
    #33 2door, Jul 28, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2010
  14. Kevlarr

    Kevlarr New Member

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    I remember that thread, it was last summer. We all assumed it was an extra key but it wasn't and I think he ended up putting it in like 3 times but it kept spitting it out. I think it had something to do with the drive gear not going on the shaft all the way but I can't remember how he fixed it.

    The bike was red, built by someone and shipped to the guy....built by Rusty I think....:confused:
     
  15. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    Can I buy a little piece of you memory Kevlarr? Mine is pretty worn out. ;)
     
  16. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    Thanks for the Compiment... i am determined to get this job done. I do lack experiance, but i'm a smart girl and can follow instructions very well, and with my determination.. this things going to get running this weekend :)

    I cant say i really know 100% for sure what caused the damage. here is what i know. The woodruff key came out before.. when this happened i was riding to work and the engine just reved really high but the bike wouldnt go... eventually the back wheel jamed up and i had to carry the thing home. I though the issue was with the clutch, i took the cover off and the small bevel gear was trashed, broken in half, and the key was just loose in the engine, so i bought a new gear and used the old key.. i think that was my mistake, i'm also noticing now that maybe the groove where the key fits is slightly damaged.. a privious post taked about how the guy filed the goove a bit. i think i might have to do this.. it seems like the opening in slightly narrower than the actuall groove. I hope that makes sense. My theory is still that the key came out and busted the casing.. i just cant think of any other explination, those where the only missing parts and i had the same issue of the engine reving and me going nowhere.

    Thoughts? Suggestions?

    I'm think i'm going to get the metal file and try to smooth the groove and test the key again to see if it will fit. I dont mind spending 5 bucks or so on a file.. it seems that thru this journey i always need a tool i never thought i would use again.

    I really appreciate all the help you guys give.. there is no way i could do it with out you :)
     
  17. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    You are welcome. good luck with the filing. Go slow and file true, you do not want to create a loose fitting or crooked keyway for the key to fit into. You may need to use a jeweler's file if you need to file the keyway in the gear. A regular file will most likely be too thick to fit. They are carried my most good hardware stores. Just ask them for help as they usually are tucked away in a weird location in the store. Some are in the hobby section, some are by the cash register, some are in the chainsaw section, you never know.
     
  18. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    The key way in the gear is fine.. it the key hole in the crank arm :confused: that i think is damaged.

    Would you still suggest a jewlers file for that?

    Oh and does Home Depot or Harbor Freight count as "good hardware store"?
     
  19. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    I qualify those stores as "ok".
    Ace Hardware and True Value Hardware seem to be better at having the very nice odd items like jeweler's files.
    I know that Harbor Freight will have them , but I question the quality of the metal that they are made out of. For the dirt cheap price that they ask for a set of them, it is worth trying them out. If the gear keyway is good, do not buy a jewelers file. You will not need it.
    If the keyway in the crankshaft is buggered there is not much you can do about it. I would superglue the key in place so it won't fight you while getting the gear on and just go for it. The keys do have a habit of scooting crooked towards the the seal when the gear is slid onto the shaft. Not crooked as in left to right, but like ice cream sliding in an ice cream scoop. The shaft is the scoop and the ice cream is the key. If that happens the key could fly out when the engine is running. The key must not do that when you install the gear. The top flat side must remain parallel to the shaft and keyway in the gear.
     
  20. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    OK.. i wont bother with the jewler's file.. but i will get a small file to file the key smaller to fit my buggered key slot, and ill make sure to keep the key level, and use super glue. All great advise.
    i think this little key has been the most frustrating thing i've come across while working with this engine, such a small area and so critical.

    I will post some pics of my work this weekend :)
     

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