Help.. Broken Bottom engine casing.

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Missmichelleb, Jul 25, 2010.

  1. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    OK... so I started working on the engine this weekend. I got the key in with just alittle filing and some light taps from a hammer on a screwdriver, the key fit snugly and the gear went on well, so i was stoked about that, i put that side all together.
    When i went to put the cover on the other side.. the side with the little ball and peg thing, once i put in the ball and peg the cover will not sit flush like its supposed to :confused: Its almost like the peg doesnt go in far enough.... i have no idea why it wont sit flush, i didnt really do much to this side. Help..please.. i feel so close to getting this put back together.
     

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  2. Kevlarr

    Kevlarr New Member

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    I think you may have your flower nut on too tight.
     
  3. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    i removed the flower nut on the opposite side completely and still have the same issue...???
     
  4. Kevlarr

    Kevlarr New Member

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    Try lightly tapping on the pin, sometimes the clutch mechanism gets stuck.
     
  5. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Michell,
    Sorry I've been a little busy and haven't checked up on your progress but you're in very good hands with Gear Nut and Kevlar helping you along.
    Your clutch actuator problem might be a result of either the ball bearing or the pin not seating properly in the bore. Did you lubricate both of those parts before assembly? Is it possible that there is too much grease in the bore that is keeping the ball and pin from going in all the way? With enough pressure applied by hand, if the problem is excess grease, it should push out and allow the ball and pin to seat. If everything is right the pin should only protrude from the center of the sprocket by about 3/8 to 1/4". Did you adjust or change anything on the clutch during disassembly? Did you notice during the initial disassembly that there was pressure on the clutch actuator cover during removal?
    Tom
     
  6. Creative Engineering

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    Missmichelleb...you need to install the flower nut prior to putting the clutch actuator back on...The part with the pin and the bearing!

    Jim
     
  7. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    humped side out on the pressure plate w/the flower nut,or a ridge on one end of the pin hitting something on the inside
     
  8. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Oh rats, Jim, I missed this post. But after reading it I have to wonder if she removed the flower nut before or after she encountered the problem.
    Tom
     
  9. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    I didnt notice any pressure when i removed the cover, i checked the hole for grease build up and didnt find any. I greased the area before i installed them, first i tried to install with out the cover plate and flower nut, and i had the issue, then i tried with the flower nut on and had the same issue.. then took it off again.. so I tried to install that ball and peg, both with the cover & flower nut on and with out and had the same issue.

    I did lightly tap on it with and it help a bit... but the cover is still not flush.

    When the engine was running, right before it broke i was experiencing some issues with the clutch arm sort of vibrating up out of position. But other than that i didnt really have too many issues with the clutch.

    Everything seems to be put together right... i'm really at a loss right now.
     
  10. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    is it (clutch arm) down to where you can see the flat part machined on the clutch arm through the hole the pin goes through in the clutch arm cover?
     
  11. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Corgi1 has a good point. If the clutch actuator arm is raised up out of the cover it would not allow for proper orientation of the pin and the cam inside the cover. There would be interference that will give you the problem you're having. Check the height of the actuator arm from the cover. It should be nearly flush. There is a pin inside the cover that keeps the arm in place but it is common for the pin to fall out which will allow the arm to lift out. Check this and get back to us. Even so, it appears from your photo that the pin protrudes further than it should. Is there any chance that there could be something in the hole in the sprocket other than the ball and pin? No extra parts? Any kids around that might be 'helping' mom put the engine together :) I had a friend who found the fuel line on his hot rod plugged with a flat head screw his 5 year old had helpfully dropped inside the tank when dad wasn't watching.
    Tom
     
    #51 2door, Aug 1, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2010
  12. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    Good Morning Guys :)

    The clutch arm is down all the way so that the flat part is siting in the right place, but it does appear that i'm missing the pin that would keep it in place. I'm assuming that pin goes in the little hole inside the cover? What can i use to replace this? I must say I think its been missing for a while, i've been wondering what that little hole was for. SO i do think i need that pin, but i dont think its whats causing my issue with the peg not going in enough...?

    I checked the hole again.. there is nothing in there but the ball and the peg and no little kids here to "help" I do have a younger brother living here.. but he's 20 and he knows to touch my engine without permission is cretin death. ;)

    I attached some pics of the clutch arm and cover... in case i'm missing something here... still totally lost. Like i said yesterday I did lightly tap it with a hammer... and it helped a bit, but honestly i'm alittle scared to just bang it with a hammer until it fits... but maybe that's just the girl in me :)
     

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  13. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    yeah, you need that pin or the clutch rod can pop out. this just happened to me a few weeks ago. pulled in the clutch and nothing happened. slowed down, stalled out, and saw the whole thing had popped out of the cover. i slid it back in and made it home.

    i ended up using a small nail to replace the pin. found one that fit tight enough where i had to tap it in, then cut off the excess with a dremel. after 3 weeks or so, it's still working fine.

    just make sure the nail or whatever isn't too big. hammering it in could break off the whole thing.

    as for your other problem, i'm rebuilding a motor right now. well, not right now, since i'm typing this, and i think i know what you can do, but i have to go look at mine first.

    be back in a few...
     
  14. Missmichelleb

    Missmichelleb New Member

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    This is awesome.. I cant wait to hear what you think i might be able to do.

    In the mean time.. ill go look for a nail i can use.

    I dont have a dremel tool... but maybe i can find something else to cut off the excess..bolt cutters maybe?
     
  15. corgi1

    corgi1 New Member

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    was there enough grease buildup when you took it apart that the missing pin for the clutch arm could hae droped into the ball and bucking bar hole when you were wiping the grease and dirt off?
     
  16. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

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    At the risk of stepping on Manic's toes here (sorry), the flower nut is properly adjusted when the clutch is held in the released position by utilizing the release arm on the cover that is giving Michelle problems. Doing it this way releases the clutch spring pressure from the flower nut allowing easy adjustment with your fingers.
    After adjustment the clutch mandrel will be resting farther towards the right of the engine allowing the ball bearing and bucking bar to move further inside the drive shaft.
    Missmichelleb, try this:
    Install the release cover keeping it square to the engine case as best as you can.
    Do not worry about fully tightening the screws, just run them in as far as they will go and snug them down. The screw threads should be at least 1/4 inch into the case.
    **If the screws will not thread in at least this far the following will not work!!!
    You will need longer screws to avoid pulling the threads out of the engine cases.***

    You should be able to push the release lever inwards towards the right side if the engine with your thumbs or use a closed end wrench for additional leverage and move it inwards about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of swing. Use some metal wire such as found in garden centers for tying back plants to hold the clutch arm in this position. Wrap it through the hole in the end of the arm and around the cable stop on the top of the case. Twist it a few times so it will not come undone.
    Assemble the clutch completely. Adjust the flower nut by running it all the way down finger tight then backing it off 1 full turn, stopping when the best suitable notch in the flower nut aligns with the hole the locking screw goes into. Install locking screw. Tighten locking screw later after full clutch spring pressure can be applied to flower nut.
    Release the wire holding the release arm and you should now find that the sprocket cover will fit on perfectly.
     
    #56 GearNut, Aug 1, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2010
  17. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    ok, i checked two different motors, and the rod with the ball bearing behind it sticks out 9-10mm from the end of the shaft. from the pictures, it looks like your's sticks out further.

    i don't think tapping it with a hammer will help because the way the shaft is made, it's sandwiched between to pressed in bearings, and there isn't any play between them for it to slide back and forth. there is a tension sdjuster on the clutch plate side, but if you didn't mess with the shaft, it shouldn't have moved. and even if it did, i don't think it would alter the length on the sprocket side.

    i think your problem is as simple as tightening the flower nut down more.

    there is a heavy duty spring around the shaft, and that needs to compress to pull the clutch in. the only way it'll compress is by tightening the flower nut. i know when i took mine all apart it was real tight and i had to use pliers to keep turning it.

    to break it down, when you pull the clutch lever in on the bars, the cable pulls the lever on the engine.

    the lever pushes against the rod and ball in the shaft, which compresses the spring.

    with the spring compressed, the shaft pushes against the flower nut, which is connected to the clutch plate.

    the clutch plate moves away from the flywheel and pads, and disengages the drive of the engine.

    more or less.

    so right now, working backwards, the clutch plate and flower nut isn't compressing the spring on the shaft enough, causing the ball and rod to stick out too far.

    also, on my first motor, the clutch cover didn't fit flush after i took it off. it felt like it was spring loaded. it came off that way. i just started all three screws, tightened them evenly, and with a little force, it all went together. basically, as i tightened, the clutch arm was pushing against the rod and pushing the spring in. worked fine, but that clutch was always hard to pull, right from the start.

    so, i'd get a good grip on the flower nut with some pliers, hold onto the flywheel as well as you can, and tighten it as much as possible.

    should work...
     
  18. silverbear

    silverbear The Boy Who Never Grew Up

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    Michelle,
    It sounds like you're getting close to resolving the problem. I hope so. I wanted to say that if you were my daughter I'd be very pleased and proud that I had a girl with such spunk. One day you'll be explaining to a newbie how to fix the same problem, by then an old pro with this. Also hands clapping for the great folks here who help so freely. Awesome...
    SB
     
  19. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    At this point I can't add anything to the excellent advice you've gotten from some of our most experienced builders. Hang in there cause we' re gonna get you back on the road, no doubt. Keep us informed, Michell. We're all here and ready to help.
    Tom
     
  20. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    i just got my motor back together, and had the exact "problem."

    all it is, is when re-assembling the clutch, the flower nut gets really hard to turn, because there's a lot of tension on the spring.

    it seems like it's tight, but it's got a long way to go.

    how i did it, was i put the ball bearing and the rod in, then turned the motor over, holding those in place, and set it down on a piece of wood. then i leaned on it real hard, so the rod is getting pressed in, and then the flower nut is easier to turn. i think i got about 3-4 full turns on it.

    when you flip it back over, make sure you don't drop the rod or lose the ball bearing.

    then it all went back together easy, peasy, japanese-y.

    once you have the clutch actuator arm back on, you can push it in and tighten the flower nut some more. probably have to mess with it once it's on the bike to get it adjusted right.
     

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