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flybytaco

Metal Molding Madman
Oct 17, 2009
1,170
8
0
seekonk MASS
goat i have the same float your not supposed to bend that piece in your pic. all yhat does is hold the needle in place. this is what it would look like you need to be able to bend the part that touches tho top of the needle.

but as mentioned in the tuning book you showed me the floats are weighted. mine weighs .4gr so to lean it a bit i would prob get a .3gr
 

flybytaco

Metal Molding Madman
Oct 17, 2009
1,170
8
0
seekonk MASS
btw not trying to start crap or doubt your skills i looked at mine and you could prob bend that tang but it looks like it would have to bend alot before it actually toches the needle. but the right way is diffrent floats thats how they make money.. a mikuni is def easier to tune..
 

flybytaco

Metal Molding Madman
Oct 17, 2009
1,170
8
0
seekonk MASS
wow i'm doubting my own skills now lol i actually have a fuel mixture screw and not an air screw and the choke jet is in that circuit.
 

Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
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N.M.
btw not trying to start crap or doubt your skills i looked at mine and you could prob bend that tang but it looks like it would have to bend alot before it actually toches the needle. but the right way is diffrent floats thats how they make money.. a mikuni is def easier to tune..
dellorto PHBG carburetor float The narration at the bottom intrigued me.


wow i'm doubting my own skills now lol i actually have a fuel mixture screw and not an air screw and the choke jet is in that circuit.
I figured out the problem! I am actually embarrassed to fess to what it is yet. I may never fess up lol. :p Lets just say I over looked something very simple.


Thought this was funny!!

From here. dellorto PHBG carburetor idle jets
for use in all dellorto PHBG carburetors. balance the equation.

HEY!!! YOU !! YEAH YOU WITH THE HAIR! I MEAN YOU WITH THE MOPED! YOUUU HEY LOOK DOWN HERE YOU WITH THE MOPED N READ THIS are you thinking about asking me a jetting question? don't ask me, ask the people, and then contribute your own hard earned knowledge so those timid souls following you need not jet in fear. thanks to the famed allen of the creatures we have this amazing tuning spreadsheet. read it, study it, and put your info in. all day long I send people to this sheet to checkout what kind of jetting they should be around so please I beseech you brave knowledgeable mopeders of thee known world put some info in here. THIS IS WHERE YOU WANT TO CLICK NOW TO GO TO MAGIC LAND







I will get just these. Dellorto PHBG carburetor idle jets I think a # 40 would be a dead ringer tho.. I just bet# 40 don't come with these lol. They don't have these.. dellorto PHBG carburetor idle jets

Something funny about the # 50 harbor freight bit. I am convinced it is not a # 50 bit but smaller?
 

Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
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goat i have the same float your not supposed to bend that piece in your pic. all yhat does is hold the needle in place. this is what it would look like you need to be able to bend the part that touches tho top of the needle.

but as mentioned in the tuning book you showed me the floats are weighted. mine weighs .4gr so to lean it a bit i would prob get a .3gr
When I adjusted my float I bent the two main arms neatly with two pair of pliers. What I did was gently tweak it as close to the fulcrum point as possible. You never mess with the valve part if it is working right? ''Best to leave it alone''.

Trust me this is how it's done with this float. I got to play with it lol.;)
 

Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
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dnutDun deal for now. No transitions in the throttle wut so ever!I got replacement nylon socks on stand by for the ones I am using should ever fall apart. lol.:plaff

You are looking for a clean crisp rev like this. YouTube - 9.4HP Franco Morini motori first-start I finally put my starter jet back bigger on mine like it was. Then used my micro drill bits on my pilot jet making it bigger in methodical stages then riding around. I could never get this pig to idle nice.

''Note no need to ride it if the throttle will not blip it ain't a right yet''.......

I got nice little peel out marks over parts my drive way lol.

Note I am pushing about 6000 feet here above sea level. Especially if I ride in the mountains.

Part of my being lost I did something experimental I would like to share I have done before. I used multiple layers of nylon stockings ''up to fourteen'' on my air filter when ever I was in doubt before a ride and lots of plug chops from the beginning!. I have now peeled away some of that and have very little air restriction but am still using a few layers. I have that foam filter that came with the BoXer it has no air restriction at all wut so ever which is great for performance! I have been in none stop utterly filthy wind dirt storms here for a while too. That time of year here...

I think gotta recheck my bits with my mic? I got good eye balls lol. #45 pilot jet, 60 starter 79 main third notch. I would blip my throttle and always have a studder. I thought about it methodically and windowed the slide big time. It was always a nice idle with a off throttle studder or vice versa till I did that. Note this was the very last adjustment I did I had both idle and pilot to each extreme. This pig will blip on the throttle nice and crisp now from a fair idle. Was a fun riddle.:) I am at 40/1 next tank 50/1 I think I'll have closer to perfection..

dellorto PHBG carburetor round slide

My slide was a #30 now dunno but its a working..

Got back from a run about an hour ago. 11: 30 pm The neighbors are prolly will the guy on the bike with a screw driver in his hand stop already lol.laff
I will be trying a diff atomizer.
Thanks boss. I don't always know what I am doing lol. Its been about a week and lots of reading and trying stuff . I will always link anything that is pretty kewl and helpful when I come across it. That's just the spirit of things. Forgot to mention I got a leaner atomizer that I will run with a richer jet coming as well. I am gonna find out what that changes soon enough. I just don't know till I try some of this stuff lol.

I got to talk to Hermie at Welcome to Herdan Corp.! he is a great guy to reach when he is not to busy. Got to pick his brain on the carby was very nice and helpful! A very Kewl old man to talk to! He mentioned that the Ultra Lights were switching to different atomizers at roughly 6000 feet.

Stock was a 262 AU gonna try the next size down [leaner] a 260 with a #90 main jet keeping the w9 needle. This should be very interesting for me! Its gonna change the progression of the whole circuit and prolly score me my 500/600 rpm idle I was hoping for finally?

This link shows a chart on the carb's overall progression circuit.
http://www.poliniusa.com/pdf/manual/X1.pdf

This one shows a float adjustment chart.

http://www.morinispecial.it/manuali/dellorto_motorcycle_carburetor_tuning_guide.pdf
I dug deep into some other forums .. I could never find anyone tuning at my elevation with a similar set up.. . I did find a general rule of thumb tho for PHBG dellorto's. For roughly every 950 feet above sea level change a jet size. This seams to correlate well with my main jetting and where my experimenting went with the idle circuit has gone so far.

All these stock motor carb's come jetted for sea level. I had to figure about a 6 size difference from stock configuration.

I got IDLE jets close to #35's coming. I have not tried yet. The slide trick got me close but not what I want. I just had to try it. That prolly works better with shifting engines not great on a single speed. Going back to a #30 slide too. I should be real close after this.

I am looking for about a 500/800 rpm idle my self . So far the best I got was 1200 or the engine loaded up too rich with fuel. Been doing lots of short rides just enough to blow the rich condition out of the motor and try again. I am just getting familiar with this carb.
 
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Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
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N.M.
All is good been loving it! I got it at a #258 AU atomizer #90 main jet W9 needle first notch from top last #40 idle jet. This is my final tuning never to mess with again. ''For now'' Check edit.. In the case some one at my altitude needs to copy my homework lesson lol.

[[[[['''Edit......''' this is for months later when I actually learned more.. Would have to read the bottom of this post.........In reality when I had time I played with the carb all summer! I got pissed at times but actually enjoyed every stinking minute of it. I was a happy lost puppy;)]]]]]



This thing has been operating perfect in the high summer heat. I get up to about 360 F on my longer runs mebbe 390 F. {note this prolly is not a fully accurate reading as my temp sensor is directly at the spark plug}

The clutch is sweet it cruises great! The Vapor Tech computer monitor has worked flawlessly I am very happy with that purchase. . I just broke in at 1000 miles I felt a surge in power. I am at 1400 miles and this S6S seams to be loving the altitude and hot summer days here.(^)

Its a lot of fun and very interesting monitoring engine temp verses tuning. When the motor is cold I hit the choke. Start it let it idle for about 30 seconds. Then with the choke still on I blip it a little until it will blip without hesitation keeping the idle raised a tad by now about two minutes have gone by. {will certainly take a little longer in the winter tho}

Last I let off the choke do two more blips noting the the motor is doing it crisply. By then and it always correlates with my temp reading. Right at 120 F it's ready to start riding and it will began to idle perfectly. This has been as consistent as the morning paper lol.

If I get stuck say in a restaurant drive through where I have been in line for days so to speak with the bike idling . ''Taking a real long time'' I don't have to blip the motor but I do have to occasionally raise the idle for a brief second or the motor will load up rich and bog for a second at take off other wise.

It's not a big deal and is very rare. Hey its a race motor they even tell ya in the manual not good to idle these pigs they are meant to move.

I will round up my picts later.

The bike as a hole has been holding up great! I switched the itty bitty gas tank tank out with another tank I had. Those were the only tanks Dean had at the time.

I had a problem with the rear brake the first weak I had the bike bike. Still checking back with Dean to see what can be done? My mounting was a little uneven {I could fix myself later} and a very important keeper pin fell out of the brake caliper resulting in shoe loss and caliper damage. A bit of a freak thing and then there was some shipping damages.

I had to re-lace my rear wheel. I did not agree right off with the way it was. Fortunately I know one of the best Wheel Smiths ever. He got it right the first time and set the cold setting on the spokes perfectly. I was able to follow up on the spokes later my self and my wheel has been flawless.

In the beginning the crank arms and motor mounts etc were still seating in. I would check them every 20 miles or so. Now I have been just riding it. Nothing comes loose on this bike and I never carry tools..


I WILL NEVER RIDE A HARD TAIL AGAIN AFTER THIS BIKE!! Long rides absolutely never even leave me feeling stiff!!That's one of the major reasons I went this route. That and the Morini..

'''Edit......'''

this is for months later when I actually learned more..took all darn summer too..I really went to school on this carb. There is no map that says you are here. lol. I basically had to rub my nose in this thing like a master trains a dog not to soil the carpet. Its been all summer..

After chasing tail on a 21mm carby for weeks!! I came up with a W7 needle 258 AU atomizer 3rd notch and a 48 pilot...about 1 1/4 turns out on the adj screw. Last a 50 starter ''choke jet''

Its mebbe a 97 jet dunno for sure? For a 19 mm I would definitely use the same guts with a smaller main jet.. The atomization got greatly ''improved'' power for me across the entire throttle spectrum. This carb set up for where I live IS THE MONEY SHOT of accumulated hands on experience. I am very proud of it. Took some time! This is my home work lesson to copy for 6000+ feet above sea level!
Took me all
'' Decided its cheap enough at this point. There is no solder in my carb nor will I be in the future but I don't mind spinning up a drill bit at a main jet''
 
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Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
38
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goat you get that pipe on a bike yet? dying to hear how it works
My buddy has been using the pipe for the last 2 months as I have no running china's right now. Well I have one but I truly hate the bike. Just a couple of new motors here I wanna finesse correctly. So I let him play with it we all only live once lol. You tuned it perfect! The welding and craftsmanship is awesome!! That pipe is sweeet!! I kinda gave up on the Proflex don't think I want to ever do a J Shaft again. Gonna peddle it.

''What altitude is the said Honda wondering around at''?

Anyone know where to find Gatorbrake brand 4 piston caliper pads? I am having a difficult time finding them.

On another note I went over my clutch at 1400 miles it is cherry and I have been running it at a high stall forever now with Maxima MTL fluid motorcycle transmission lube 85 wt [been my personal experiment] its said all a guy really needs is 30 wt motor oil. Basically I cleaned any trash out that had accumulated between the bevel washers, put my locktight on and reassembled. I never did take any shims out I love it right where its at! I will do new bevel washers prolly very near the exact same stack height later on.

This is not the same clutch as Morini USA's famed grippa. While this clutch looks similar in shape. The compound on the shoes is different and it utilizes Allen Head bolts to install the shoes. Its a little different beast and so far I am liking it a lot. This motor is stock from http://www.herdan.com/engines/. I have never bought a motor anywhere else so I am not sure what other s6s's are coming with could not say..

I did a no no I had the MTL oil in the whole time and had not changed it out at all. About 1000 miles or so. It held its viscosity surprisingly well and was still somewhat surprising clear in color considering. It is said leaving old oil in for long periods attributes to trash accumulation inside the washer stack.

It's interesting to note that with the trash cleaned out from in between of the bevel washers the clutch comes on a tad earlier. About 150 mebbe 200 rpms or so that made things perfect to me.. I moved every bolt to a different hole for washer dig in wear on the bolt shoulders per say so wear may go to a new place. The bolt shoulders had no wear in them that was alarming at all!

They were just very shiny polished in those spots. There is no visible ridges in the bell for wear ether. Put a 0.8mm shim washer behind the bell when I reassembled took the wobble play out perfectly. I am very happy with my clutch so far. Top speed on my bike is about 40 miles an hour. My gearing seams to be matched up to this clutch perfect for my driving habits I love it! It will cruise as slow as 12 miles an hour.

Also most of my trips my temp is about 300 F max Those last quotes were very hot tripping over my tongue looking for a cool place to stand time of day very extremely severe testing runs here in the desert. With a over 6' tall 240 pound grinning ear to ear guy on it! I at no time have experienced any change in drivability engine power verses temp yet [including the clutch] but I keep an eye on it.. I have over temp alarms custom set with the http://www.google.com/#q=vapor+tech...gc.r_pw.&fp=efbe288a73d95d24&biw=1003&bih=653

My elevation being over 6000 foot above sea level I suspect that is about a 30 percent difference in Horse Power from actual sea level. So I am told. I still have Gobs of power a plenty!


With so much to analyze and or over analyze this is by far the Kewlest bad to the bone bike I have ever owned so far. It is very pleasantly quiet too no louder than a fully revved stock China. Every time I detail it the bike looks bran new again this powder coat paint is the bomb:)




Edit adding part#'s for different thickness washers to go between the clutch bell and the motor that will take excess play out of the bell when installed. F25-400508 is the 0.8mm F25-400506 = 0.6mm. These part #'s are from Herdan. I did not measure the stock one it its thinner then these two. These washers can be put in any necessary combination to set the end play right.

My 9.4 nostalgic drives!
This has been my experience
 
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Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
38
N.M.
Thanks for the link Dave! I got in touch with them.:) I was on that sight or thought I was? I did not see this section of it.

On another note Monsoon season finally got here. Yeah! I road the last to days in very nice high thick humidity. I honestly never have had any complaints about power with this motor at all what so ever. I gotta say tho I got a nice glimpse of what sea level might be like? Boy howdy did this pig wake up!! I am kinda envious of you sea level folks now lol. :D

A city worker making his rounds in a van followed me to the house today he said he really wanted one of these bikes and could not believe how fast I was.;)

One Saturday about two weeks ago it was a nice pleasant day partly cloudy. I did a bunch of errands across town. I had folks flagging me off the road to see what I was on and where to get one. I keep sending them to this forum. It don't seam to matter if I am on a China or a Morini. Riding these bikes is strange indeed it's like I am out signing autographs or something lol. laff
 

sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
1,844
485
83
california
Sounds like you have the clutch pretty well dialed in. My S6S motors have all had the same three shoe clutch with five belvue washers pairs, two .008" shims and one .020" shim. Currently I have them all set up the same with the two .008" shims removed. Still a little tall on the overall gearing with a 10t up front, 45t in the rear, and 26" wheels. I have some 48t and 52t custom sprockets getting cut so we will see how it goes. I did throw on a 38t in the rear for some high speed runs. Hit 48 to 49 mph on a calibrated digital speedometer. It had a bit more left in it, but I was in short sleeves and a small helmet so backed off. It took forever with the 38t to get up to top speed.
Pat
 

Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
38
N.M.
( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( / / / This is what I am running at. It was just barely to high in the beginning. After about 500 miles I began to loved it. 0 to 40 miles an hour inside most neighborhood blocks. I will make a video again showing my hand removed from my throttle, my tach and different speeds cruising. My stall is very high but this pig will lock into and hold cruise at anything steady from 12 miles an hour on up.
 

Dave31

Active Member
Mar 1, 2008
11,199
47
38
Aztlán, Arizona
Glad you are enjoying the bike Goat. Me and my buddy have plans for a off-road ride to the Mexico border as soon as he gets his swing arm fixed up.

I've got the dirt tires back on my BoXer and just itching to hit the trails. Thinking about swapping the rear sprocket for some more lower end.
 

Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
38
N.M.
Here is how my Dash Board was set up all summer. Took some picts today on a scenic ride. The paint job on this thing is holding up great!(^) I am on my second rear tire natural causes lol just wore it out..

Got a sweet head light its very bright at night and charges off a computer USB connection. But the darn thing the battery pack with the built in switch does not get along with road/engine vibrations. but does perfectly in the black hip bag. There it is isolated from any vibes nicely worked out good that way.

The computer dash board unit is mounted on a custom made soft mount with foam padding. Can anyone guess what I used at the bar mount part. :D I thought it came out pretty trick. The cheep light on the right side holds the 9 volt battery to power it. Naturally it was junk I just retro-ed it to work for my dash board power supply.
 

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