End of an Era?

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Rambler, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. Mozenrath

    Mozenrath New Member

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    Holy cow, now that's a cheap kit! All the main vendors seem to be raising their prices, but $108?! That's awesome. I'd just hope they're as good as the Raw engines because I love my Raw 66cc.

    This guy probably doesn't even care about obeying regulations so he can make the kit cheaper by not paying bullsheet "environmental" government fees.
     
  2. Goat Herder

    Goat Herder Gutter Rider

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    Shipping to: Worldwide
    Excludes: Africa, Albania, Andorra, Gibraltar, Guernsey, Jersey, Liechtenstein, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, San Marino, Serbia, Svalbard and Jan Mayen, Vatican City State, Argentina, Hong Kong, China

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    By Sea 7-8 Weeks to USA CANADA UK FRANCE GERMANY ITALY
     
  3. CTripps

    CTripps Active Member

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    The place I've picked my motors up from told me that they had to wait for the next group of containers to come in from China (to get resupplied on thier misc. parts inventory in that case). Makes sense to me, I have an idea how the shipping works as someone who does that for a living. So most likely they'll be back in stock where-ever after enough are made and a container full of them goes to that part of the world.
     
    #23 CTripps, Sep 4, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2011
  4. biknut

    biknut Active Member

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    No, he cares. That's why all his motors have a sticker that says 2009 on them. He's all about compliance you know. (^)
     
  5. 2door

    2door Moderator
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    Like SaddleTramp, I've actually seen proof/evidence that we're seeing the end of the 2 stroke HTs as we know them. Our EPA has placed a fee (Tramp's 50K annual figure is accurate) on anyone wanting to import them. As some of you know the engines are manufactured by a handfull of factories but are assembled by small mom & pop outfits working out of their back yard shops. These are the guys who export to you and to vendors. They're also the ones who would have to caugh up that yearly 50K. That would be something like you or me buying a new Mercedes SUV every year. They can't afford it and that's exactly what the EPA wanted. It was their way to get a ban on imports without going through a lot of environmental testing BS.
    There was a question asked above about what it took to get an engine EPA certified. Well, the answer is, 50K a year.
    There are engines/kits available but unless it comes from Gruby, or however you spell it, it will be an engine that was shipped prior to the EPA's mandate and probably assembled in 09. Engines with later manufacturing dates are either bootleg 09s with a different data plate, or one that was bought from Gruby from another vendor. Gruby bit the bullet and paid the EPA's fees apparently and is still importing and probably will until the profit margin goes away.
    Just some thoughts for you based on some very good evidence.
    Tom
     
  6. nightcruiser

    nightcruiser New Member

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    It is my opinion that the new design of the "Super Rat" has put a crimp on the supply chain for the Grubee kits. I ordered 2 "Super Rats" in the spring on the day they were due to be in stock, they were never delivered. I ended up buying a regular SkyHawk 66 that was manufactured in April 2011, at the time I was told Gasbike.net had 360 of these kits in stock. These kits come with the new CNS-EPA carb and are completely epa approved, mine ran like crap at first but runs good after some work on the carb.
    I did some enquiring about the "Super Rat" and have heard lots of stuff. Some say they have problems and that's why they are not available, Don Grubee said a large container of kits left china this spring and were due to arrive in June, BikeBerry said those kits were flagged in customs for inspection. It's been months now and still no kits, so I not quite sure what the real story is. Don Grubee did say he ponyed up big cash to get the EPA cert for the skyhawk and the super rat, and was going to get EPA cert for the StarFire line of engines next. My 2011 GT-5 is EPA certified, and the "Super Rat" is also supposed to be certified as well (both use the same CNS-EPA carb).
    The "Super Rat" engine is a bit different from the regular GT-5, it has an internal CDI, larger studs, larger bearings, larger oil seals etc. This means the bottom end of the engine is probably a little different. If Grubee tooled up to make the "Super Rat" parts and discontinued the older GT-5 and there is a problem with how the "Super Rat" runs or the shipment was actually delayed then the stock of regular GT-5's that remain in the US would start to dwindle. As far as I can tell, my engine made on 04-20-11 is the most recent batch of regular GT-5's out there.
    I don't know what the real story is with the "Super Rat", but I doubt that Grubee would spend that kind of money for EPA certification and then not sell the engines in the USA. As someone else pointed out, and Don Grubee pointed out to me, he is pumping out engines and selling kits all over the planet, it is just the US regulations that prevent many of them from being imported. I originally wanted a StarFire kit, which is a superior product to the SkyHawk, but that engine has not received the EPA cert yet so that one is only being sold to the rest of the planet outside the USA (Don Grubee said that one was next to get cert).
    I don't think we have to worry about the china girl 2-strokes going away, eventually these "Super Rat" engines will make their way into the market, there's no way a company would invest that much cash into EPA certification to NOT sell their product in the USA...... IMHO
    Oh, and btw, Don Grubee said that GasBike.net would be the exclusive distributor for the Super Rat engine (when it actually becomes available). This sounded kinda strange to me at first, but after reading this thread I am thinking maybe he made some deal with them to get them to pony up the $50G importer fee I have been reading about? Or maybe they agreed to pay this fee but haven't paid up yet so the kits are being held? That's pure speculation, but it sounds like a likely scenario...
     
    #26 nightcruiser, Sep 5, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2011
  7. Dagwood

    Dagwood New Member

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    I work for a Honda Engine distributor, and I call on the manufacturers that desire to use Honda power for their products here in the USA. I premise this only to explain that I am extremely familiar with the Clean Air Act, its provisions, and its timeline. To begin with, here is a quote from the Act, which you can find in the federal register should you desire. "Any engine manufacturer that supplies an engine to an equipment manufacturer for a non-compliant application shall share in the responsibility of the violation of this act"
    Along with verbage such as this, fines of over 34,000.00 are specifically listed per violation, and as of dec 31, 2011, equipment powered by engines below 225 cc will be included in the regulations. Now..in 2011, only engines above 225 cc's are. Notice I say "Equipment" powered by...because it is not only the engines..but the entire piece of equipment..MUST be certified and Labeled as compliant with the EPA provisions according to the date of manufacture. Without this LABEL...it is illegal to sell in the USA. And there are 2 labels..one for exhaust emmissions, and one for evaporative emmissions, and it is the latter that has changed the landscape drastically. absoultly no vapors can escape from a gas powered piece of equipment..running, or sitting still not running...EVER! Carbs can no longer have vented bowls, gas tanks can no longer have vents, or vented gas caps..fuel lines must be "impermeable"..because some genius decided that fuel vapors can be detected passing thru rubber lines that have been used traditionally and a "new" formula had to be developed. Carbon cannister and complete vapor recovery systems must be in place on every gasiline powered piece of equipment, and it must be certified as built and designed to EPA specs, and all its compenents..before a compliance number will be issued.This number must then be affixed to a label on the equipment.
    Furthermore, the CA Act says that "any individual tampering, modifying, or otherwise changing a certified machine shall be in violation of this act"
    Do you realize that as of dec, 31st 2011, you will be in violation of the law if you even go to NAPA and buy an aftermarket gas cap for your car?..let alone a carb, a cam, or an aircleaner, or a "chip" for the FADEC...or any of the 30 billion dollars of hot rod parts sold sold for cars relating to the fuel system? Not to mention your lawn mower..or string trimmer. Only the components it was certified with can be used as replacements.
    For the last 6 months, I have had at least 3 or 4 customers a month cancel orders for engines, because they are discontinuing products because they are either uable to comply, the dont think the market will bear the increased cost, or simply dont want to invest the money in the compliance process. Yes, my paychecks have been directly affected. But I still have a job, which I am thankful for, unlike the many people who have been laid off at manufacturers I call on because of the decline in production due to these regs. I dont know just how this has affected the Motorized bike folks..but I sure notice, now that I am building one, how many vendors do not have inventory. FEAR of prosecution is a market influence in alot of industries, and with the EPA's budget increase last year to 10 billion..they have hired many , many people, and the new regulations have been flowing like water from a bucket this year and last. Well, after all, thats what a regulatory agency does right?
    How do you like the change so far? THE EPA has been running unbridled for years, and now it is a monster that considers only about its appetite for control, and nothing else. Jobs, freedom, personal property rights...nothing.

    In re-reading my post, I suppose it may be considered by some here as a rant. Didnt intend that, just pointing out some facts, and they may or may not be the reason there is little inventory for a bike builder out there. Its possible, that most of the vendors have mis-read the demand, and if containers take 90 to 120 days to be filled, shipped and arrive here from China, (as they do Honda engines from japan), it is jsut all sold out, and maybe thats the reason for the shortage. I hope so..but I predict the end of this activity is around the corner due to EPA regs...unless the people of the USA change the way they have been voteing.
     
    #27 Dagwood, Sep 13, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  8. Saddletramp1200

    Saddletramp1200 Custom MB Buiilder

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    Dagwood I welcome you to THE Forum. I would like to be the first to thank you for your post. I wonder if one gallon of gas was put into a Caddy Escalade, and One gallon in one of our bikes witch one would put out more emissions. The gas eating SUV that gets 13 MPG or Our bikes that get 150 mpg. How much more emissions would be released by the SUV to go 150 miles. The awnser is clear. I spoke with a man that drives one. His fuel cost per month is almost 400.00 Mine is about 15.00 per month. I guess the tree huggers have not thought about that. (c)
     
  9. SlickmisterN

    SlickmisterN New Member

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    Oh yes they have, it's just like when they started messing with the truckers diesel rigs in the 90's over dreaded NOx. Their implementation of devices to limit the said pollutant did reduce emissions but also the overall miles per gallon they could travel with the new system, to the tune of almost 2mpg! Now think about how many diesel trucks we rely on to keep this economy moving... and then you see 1-2mpg worse gas consumption across the nations largest mobile shipping infrastructure trumps the emissions debate hands down. This agency is senseless and completely blind to the havoc and collateral damage they cause. All in the name conservation though!
     
  10. Saddletramp1200

    Saddletramp1200 Custom MB Buiilder

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    Oh these folks are a piece of work. Pulled into the inspection area, in Blythe Ca, they put what looked like funnels on my trucks stacks and told me to keep the rpms @ 1500 for 30 seconds. It didn't pass. 425 Cat. Buy a 300.00 72 hour permit, or go away. The truck was almost new. I never have crossed the border since. Too bad,so sad, I'm glad. Go get it yourself rotfl :)
     
  11. motorbiker

    motorbiker New Member

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    The electric motors have been around for a while but batteries are just now becoming practical for electric bicycle motors.

    The price is going down on them too.

    It was USA govt funded NASA that caused these batteries to be here.

    They needed lightweight batteries to go into space and last a long time.

    Now we can buy them from China and use them for our bicycle motors ! :)

    This is what the kids want now ! :)

    http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=5142
     
    #31 motorbiker, Sep 13, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  12. Dogtown Burner

    Dogtown Burner New Member

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    venice motorbikes said banned in 2012, so buy em up if you can find 'em!
     
  13. Mozenrath

    Mozenrath New Member

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    It might be the end of an era as far as buying kits legitimately, but there will always be an underground market for anything, and I bet you there will always be a few guys in Hong Kong willing to ship these things on eBay.
     
  14. motorbiker

    motorbiker New Member

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    And parts from our vendors for your classic china girl motor.

    I hope I can click on this site for the rest of my life and see sick bike parts and dax and others selling everything to rebuild a china girl motor ! :)

    p.s. I want one of those shift kits ! :)
     
  15. motor_bike_fanatic

    motor_bike_fanatic New Member

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    there are two really good sellers on ebay. luckyearlybird and boygofast. I have ordered from both of them and always got exactly what I paid for. another ebay seller is rose326a. I never ordered from her but they all have an abundance of two stroke engines and kits. their replacement engines are cheaper than grubee too. grubee replacements are over $150. I got a replacement engine from luckyearlybird for $90 including shipping. there is no shortage. you just need to know where to look.
     
  16. Dogtown Burner

    Dogtown Burner New Member

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    Awesome. I paid $219 + shipping for a RAW 80cc. In the mail. I dunno- maybe I shouldn't feel so bad. $40 extra bucks and it has a 6 mo warranty. And high reviews. Haven't seen a single review of a grubee or any other for that matter. I feel like I paid to much, but IV also had **** luck with Chinese anythings. We shall see...
     
  17. motor_bike_fanatic

    motor_bike_fanatic New Member

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    you paid too much dogtown. $219 plus shipping. I bet the shipping was like 30. that would put you just under $250. you could have gotten a kit from any of the ebay sellers I mentioned for around $150. and that price is shipping included. heck, I got my first kit for that price, and it was a grubee kit off gasbike.net. and that 6 month warranty is on the engine and only covers factory defects. modify anything on the engine and you void the warranty. parts in the kit are not covered. the only way defective parts are replaced is if they are returned in the original packaging at the buyers expense. if the parts are found to be defective, the buyer is then reimbursed for shipping. so good luck for what you paid, hope the kit lasts.
     
  18. Dogtown Burner

    Dogtown Burner New Member

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    Ah damn. Thanks. Gonna try and cancel order
     
  19. madcroc

    madcroc New Member

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    I would do a search for "raw motors"on this site. A lot have people have had trouble with them recently, when I dealt with them they had 0 customer service. Next time I order a kit I will try ebay for sure. I wish I would have just paid for the engine to start considering I replaced or didn't use the majority of the kit. Always good to have spare parts though! :)
     
  20. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    I've bought all my engines from BGF and Luckyearlybird which are actually one in the same, parts from each of these sellers all come from the same place.

    I have had good luck with mine, I have had one engine that I had major troubles with, rebuilt it and it ran great and then something else on it had a major failure, it was just a lemon out of the box which can be had from ANY of the sellers of these engine no matter what " BRAND" they stick on them.

    BGF has always done me right and sent me exactly what I ordered from him and he ships quick, I have not had engines from anyone else but I have read reports that the engines that Duane at Thatsdax sells are pretty good engine kits and I do know he stands behind his stuff very good......probably better than anyone else for that matter.

    Peace, map
     

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