Casting Metals

[kicking]

we will unite !! this thread go's in my fav's -- now i wil

i will try to move people from http://motorbicycling.com/f3/what-kind-metals-can-i-17936.html to here then to norms two stroke repair if yall want ? or leave it here ? its up to yall . anyways.,, i have been doing the old way for years somthing like this ( warning more stupid music ) YouTube - the Sword - documentary or this ( i like the conan theam song play it loud lol) YouTube - Aluminium and Copper Foundry but nice ta meet ya norm sounds like you have advanced into 2010 ... sell a video at the swap thread lol P.S hmmm kitty litter . it is like pure clay .. never thought of that for metal but have used it in life casting props.. arnt i childish at 53 lol not meaning to get too far off topic just a second because it is a form of casting and is a very good start now see this real pretty typ of art i do The Monster Makers - 866-521-(SPFX)7739 - Halloween Latex Mask Making Kits, Fang Kits, Special Effects Supplies and more lol latter !!

With a simple home shop made foundry you can make just about anything you would want.
It might look like heck making a home made cast part or machine but that is the fun of doing it.
If any of you guys want a lathe, shaper,drill press, or a metal mill then check out the Dave Gingery books book 1 to 7 you can make your own tools from scrap aluminum by melting the metal and casting it in green sand molds. All of the info is in the books. You don't need expensive tools or machines to make your shop tools.
I'm doing the casting of a metal shaper now then on to making the mill. I cheated a little as I have a small sears metal lathe.
Its like Christmas every time I pour a new casting I can hardly want for it to cool enough to dig it out of the sand and see how it turned out. If it don't turn out good remelt and try again, you learn from the casting what you did not do right so its self teaching if you study what came out of the sand.
I found play sand at Walmart makes good casting sand its very fine grained. I also use cat littler ground up in a blender for the clay. 10 lbs of sifted sand to 1 lb of ground cat litter add just enough water to make the stuff look and feel like brown sugar.
All of my castiing tools are home made the most expensive part was a 1/4" ball valve to control the waste oil burner. For flasks I used old wooden fence lumber.
To make the patterns I used med. density fiber board and scrap lumber. Lot of sanding to make them smooth. You can make all of your patterns with hand tools.
Casting aluminum is an inexpensive way to make parts and equipment.

 

[Norman]

I ordered my metal (1018 cold rolled steel) for the shaper and metal mill this week just for the shaper the price was around $75.00 which is not do bad. I picked up the order and saved quite a
bit on shipping as the shipping would cost almost as much as the metal.
Here is the place I ordered the metal from (Metal suppermarkets Dallas, Tx. 1216 Dolton Dr.
Dallas, Tx.) you can order it on line or phone in your order, look them up in line they have stores in other towns so check them out.
Next on my list if thing to do is get the screws, bolts, etc.
Now I'll be machining and casting parts over the next few days.
I'll need to make a new crucible the first steel one is getting thin from all the use. I'm going to redo some of the castings I have a few that don't look as good as I think I can do so they will get remelted and done over.
Norman

 

[kicking]

any thing that comes around this thread i will be here to check it out. i have been unemployed for over three months been looking around nothing yet, but mabey soon , oh well anyways . ill be here from time to time , thanks

I ordered my metal (1018 cold rolled steel) for the shaper and metal mill this week just for the shaper the price was around $75.00 which is not do bad. I picked up the order and saved quite a
bit on shipping as the shipping would cost almost as much as the metal.
Here is the place I ordered the metal from (Metal suppermarkets Dallas, Tx. 1216 Dolton Dr.
Dallas, Tx.) you can order it on line or phone in your order, look them up in line they have stores in other towns so check them out.
Next on my list if thing to do is get the screws, bolts, etc.
Now I'll be machining and casting parts over the next few days.
I'll need to make a new crucible the first steel one is getting thin from all the use. I'm going to redo some of the castings I have a few that don't look as good as I think I can do so they will get remelted and done over.
Norman

 

[kicking]

sold some stuff to get me an welder / is the harbor fre

sold some stuff to get me an welder / is the harbor freight easy mig 100 an good one to learn with?

 

[Norman]

check out some of the welding forums they are not made the best but I understand they will work
how well I don't know but the price is right for hobby use. The duty cycle is small same as my Century welder I bought at Walmart I can weld for 2 minutes straight then it needs to cool off for 8 minutes. That don't sound like a lot of using time but you weld up something then spend time cleaning the weld and setting up for the next weld it works out ok most of the time.
The harbor freight welder price is pretty good get a reader digest magazine look for the 20% off coupon and use it to buy the welder.

 

[kicking]

Thank's for your time norm , I know you are busy an...

Thank's for your time Norm , I know you are busy and are helping people who are haveing some trouble's with there two stroke motors , which brings to mind about the tensioner's that come with these kits are junk according to the people who have bought them , I am not sure if that comes under your function , (Norm's 2 stroke repair center) , but this problem is Usually solved by modification , if you have input on this , or an proto type of an stay modification , I would love to see it . I’m going to buy an motor soon in hopes that I can sell a few in my area , this will be my first build , any Suggestions on a motor for a first build ?? . PS. How would you build the refractory to melt metal ? Material's and how to , ect. Thanks Kicking

check out some of the welding forums they are not made the best but I understand they will work
how well I don't know but the price is right for hobby use. The duty cycle is small same as my Century welder I bought at Walmart I can weld for 2 minutes straight then it needs to cool off for 8 minutes. That don't sound like a lot of using time but you weld up something then spend time cleaning the weld and setting up for the next weld it works out ok most of the time.
The harbor freight welder price is pretty good get a reader digest magazine look for the 20% off coupon and use it to buy the welder.

 

[Norman]

You can get most all the info on making the refractory by searching in line.
type in green sand or aluminum casting there is a ton of info. Plus metal casting forums
that you can go to.
I used fire brick for my furnace along with home brewed refractory.
Using portland cement, silica sand, and perolite for the bottom of the furnace and the lid.
I used a large pop corn can for the main body of the furnace. rebar for the furnace frame.
home made waste oil burner with a gutted hoover vacuum cleaner motor/blower for forced air to the burner. All the casting tools are home made. casting sand is play sand from Walmart with clumping cat litter used for the sand binder.

 

[Norman]

wood patterns for shaper

some of the parts machined and assembled. there is a few clamps holdiing some of the parts together.

this is the ram where the cutting head is to be mounted the mounting spot is the hole on the ram

took 2 tries to get the ram casting the wood pattern by the 2 castings middle one is not a keeper and will get melted. It as gas pockets that is the rough spots it just looks bad

there is more to come later.

 

[kicking]

Hi Norm , Back in the days of my youth Hi Norm , Ba..

Hi Norm , Back in the days of my youth I had an small blacksmith type of setup , It was an old cast iron type of pot on an cast iron grate set in an fire brick outback oven ( boxed in type) with open front, It was insulated within an sand mound for a better and faster heat , The crucible was just an old cast iron pot with an cast iron rod attached to the top and going out the side of the oven. I used an old coal tong to grab and turn the rod to lean and pour the metal. Which gave me a bit more safety from the shock but a limited area of space to pour. So what happened ? Well the cast iron was scaling “kind of bad in its last day‘s and it suddenly failed‘. This is my new list I am going with this time (Clay Graphite Crucible = 8 3/8 height. -- 6 ½ Top Diameter -- 4 3/8 bottom Diameter and makes about 10 pounds of aluminum and 31,9 lbs. of brass price is ‘’$60.00 not bad’’ . ) Lifting tongs are expensive but I’m going to look around , I am going to get pouring shanks too. I have an Dross Skimmer and will make my own Ingot molds. If you see some lifting tongs and an pouring shanks let me know or sell some at swap and shop , the tongs I saw cost $ 143.00 and the pouring shanks cost $ 165.00 ,, kind of steep .. Thanks stay in touch ,, Latter Kicking

wood patterns for shaper

some of the parts machined and assembled. there is a few clamps holdiing some of the parts together.

this is the ram where the cutting head is to be mounted the mounting spot is the hole on the ram

took 2 tries to get the ram casting the wood pattern by the 2 castings middle one is not a keeper and will get melted. It as gas pockets that is the rough spots it just looks bad

there is more to come later.

 

[Norman]

why not make your own crucible? I used 4" dia steel pipe sch40 welded on a 1/8" thick bottom hand hammered the pouring spout welded on ears to the crucible and one link from a chain to put a hook into to tilt the crucible. made the hook tool out of 1/4" dia rod welded onto a conduit handle and the crucible lifting tool out of 1/8" plate welded to conduit. cost less than $2.00
There isn't a need to go buy the tools if you can make them otherwise the cost of doing it yourself gets too expensive. I enjoy making mine own tools. I bought some old metal files at a pawn shop for $7.00 the shop wanted $10.00 I offered them less and they went for it, they will be made into metal scrapers and other tooling that need the hard tough steel. I'll grind cut and reshape them may have to reheat treat them but that is the fun part of home brewed tools.
I'm looking into making another small furnace to use as a forge furnace I'm going to use a old blow torch if I can find one that isn't considered an antique and the seller won't want a small fortune for it.
If I don't find one I'll use the gas torch to heat the metal but I'll need to talk the old Snakewoman into holding it while I beat the metal into submission. I don't want to burn down the mancave.
On some of my quests for parts I feel like the TV show American pickers.
Its fun to hit flea markets and second hand stores you never know what your going to find.
I'm also looking for bronze bearings and may have to break down and buy them at the hardware store or scrounge some bronze scrap and try casting some bar stock.
So I'll have to make another crucible for that but that's no big deal.
later guys off to the mancave.

 

[Thud]

Hello,
1st post outside of the intro thread.
Its nice to see some fellow Back yard foundry work going on.
I would post a photo or 2 but I am too new for that yet.
Had a foundry in my HS shop classes & have been makeing cast parts as needed on & off for 25+ years. Also a profesional wood worker, Pattern making is another area I have been lucky enough to have in the skill set.
Looking foward to getting better aquainted with this comunity, Looks like we could have some real fun.
T

 

[TerrontheSnake]

O i cant wait to move into my new house. I even looked for something that had a large slab of pavement just so I can do this a little safer, I can't wait to get my foundry and forge up and running, all of you talking about what your already pouring makes me jealous.

 

[Norman]

You will not want to cast on cement or pavement. Plain dirt,sand or gravel is better sand or dirt being the best for the floor. Molten metals will make super heated steam come out of the concrete
if you spill it on the pavement. I slopped just a small amount on the drive way and it threw liquid aluminum and cement chips everywhere. It was exciting! I don't want to do it again though, the old snake woman made me repair the crater in the drive way,that takes time away from playing with the casting process sooooooo!!!! or messing with the bikes.
I now do the casting in the grass, got some burn marks in the grass but it will grow back, plus side is one bit less to mow! I hate mowing grass anyway.
Here in the Texas panhandle if you want a green yard you have to keep the yard watered, we have a sprinkler system in the yard so I don't worry about setting the yard on fire.
Norman

 

[TerrontheSnake]

LoL, thanks for the heads up norm guess I let that go right over my head. Didn't even think about it and I'm a fire fighter that knows about exploding rocks. I really am "special" sometimes, I can't believe I didn't think about that. Well I can get the foundry and other things set up on the pavement then there is a patch of soil I can use for safe pouring.

 

[kicking]

I dont

Proclaim to be an expert on casting metals , but I do know if you drop it on concrete it will pit it too , and the same will happen on asphalt , And oh my god people “! make sure the surface is dry that you pour on ! “ use sand or kitty litter ., and store it in a shed or under your bed if need to keep it dry. I don’t even pour in even damp sand or kitty litter . My blast oven is just an pit in the ground for right now with an hole going to the pit with an pipe elbow to the bottom of my pit. The pipe coming in the pit is covered with an old piece of angle bar with holes drilled in it and placed over the end so the air is free to flow in the pit. I love my in ground pit! No need to worry about exploding rocks. The pit is near the side of my yard and covered with a thick piece of stainless steel with an ¾ inch vent . It don’t take long to melt cans. If you do melt cans like I do now and then , remember that the cans usually have water or stinky beer and yellow jackets too ! So never throw cans or any other wet metals in your melting brew of lava like metals ! I take all safety precautions , I wear an face shield , welding gloves , and an welders apron , "never walk backwards wile working" Q!. I have two old poles about 10 ft. apart with an cable going in-between them, I stand back and latch and pull the pot out of the hole. I then pull it across with the cable which has an pulley on it. I then loop an pole with an cable around the bottom of the pot and slowly pour the melt in the sand. I’m learning more and more , im going to study some on >Ferrosilicon , any ones opinion on this and the following > flux , strontium , degassing , and what can be used for tool coating ? I use charcoal wood and thick house grease for fuel is great ! I use an leaf blower to heat it up fast by hooking it to the pipe

 

[Norman]

I've not had any problem pouring into sand that is a little too wet other than the casting coming
out with steam pits on it. If you put venting holes allover the top and bottom of the mold by using a coat hanger wire you can get away with some pretty wet sand.
The humidity here in Texas was so low the other day my molding sand was drying out badly and I had trouble pulling the pattern out of the mold so I over wetted the sand to get a good pattern
to come out of the mold and used the coat hanger wire venting about 1/2" spacing all both sides to vent the steam. The cast came out fine.
Pouring on wet grass isn't a problem either if you get aluminum on wet grass it just steams more then normal before catching on fire, then it goes out.
Leaves a nice burn mark you can tell people "Hey looks like the alien's were here last night."

 

[GearNut]

After Norm's initial posting on casting aluminum, I looked up some videos on U-Tube about it. There are folks there that do discuss degassing and anti-oxidizing additives.
One that comes to mind is soda ash, aka sodium carbonate (NOT baking soda!).
I can't for the life of me recall how it helps right now.
Back to U-Tube I go...........

 

[Goat Herder]

Yes running like all heck and turning the sprinklers just sounds to funny! Good one! Snork

 

[kicking]

I've not had any problem pouring into sand that is a little too wet other than the casting coming
out with steam pits on it. If you put venting holes allover the top and bottom of the mold by using a coat hanger wire you can get away with some pretty wet sand.
The humidity here in Texas was so low the other day my molding sand was drying out badly and I had trouble pulling the pattern out of the mold so I over wetted the sand to get a good pattern
to come out of the mold and used the coat hanger wire venting about 1/2" spacing all both sides to vent the steam. The cast came out fine.
Pouring on wet grass isn't a problem either if you get aluminum on wet grass it just steams more then normal before catching on fire, then it goes out.
Leaves a nice burn mark you can tell people "Hey looks like the alien's were here last night."

I will admit I am one paranoid dude . I was talking to a dude about this stuff at another site and he used some kind of additive to make the sand firm cant think of what it was called , never the less I came back home to this site and have since invited friends here/ I am terrified of the static shock. I guess one thing weighing on my mind is I had a friend of mine who bought an Harley Davidson dresser , after about three weeks he said > I have it down pat now <, he was driving with one hand hit a bump and hit a car head on. Its kinda been like the movie finale destination around here lately . But I must move on . Some guy said play sand is not good and is a poor sand to use ? What do you think norm ? I just make sure my cans are well drained of water and I am pouring in an steel bucket full of play sand for right now. ( I make sure there are no pools of water sitting on top of the sand ) And I made an bike set post . I am unemployed at the time and I am picking up cans and buying them here , I buy them for 40 cents an pound and sell them at the yards for 79 cents a pound not bad ! my bins stay full at all times ! must be the economy? I take them to the yards in a hunk weighing in at 70 pounds, no need for garbage bags and i dont miss them ,but if im going to melt for room i am going to make parts and art jewels and such ,the set up I have allows me to mass produce in an smooth and factory like manner for an back yard foundry. and i plan on bigger and bigger ,,,In the old days I made swords and knives . Got into it at an renaissance fair at the blacksmith years ago. I used shavings from the machine shops around here and they melted fast , but I had an old wood bellow. It was hard hot work and no fun at all compared to a leaf blower , an flower pot furnace is a lot better than that ! Questions ( most people talk like static shock is the biggest problem ?)> is water fine or additives needed ? And is play sand poor ? Check the open pit in the picture at this site. I try to avoid this stuff in 90 degree weather , Latter and I am still kicking
*************** oh well site is down , i will have pictures of my foundry when my wife gets camera from daughter and the weather is not dangerous / some bad storms here latley and i mean bad storms P.S. any where i can recycle plastic? if so i have an chipper for that lol

 

[Norman]

I got play sand at Walmart it works great. I bought some play sand at a hardware store it was trash large rocks and the sand grains were large I still used it but I'm going to toss it,went back to Walmart bought some more from them its way better more fine grained. Where Walmart got their sand I do not know? Look for the finest grained sand you can find you might be able to find it in your yard or on a river or creek bank.
I sifted all of the sand through a window screen I had less than a hand full of stones in the Walmart sand. This stuff was already wet to keep down the dust I guess being it's silica sand. I used the special kitty cat litter ground up for the clay
10 to 1..... 10 lbs sand 1 lb litter. This sand gives a fairly smooth finish on the castings. You can look back on this thread and see the results of some of my castings. People say the cat litter and walmart sand are not good ,for me it works good for what I want to do the price was good less than $5.00 for about 40 lbs. of sand
I don't use anything special in the sand just the cat litter and water.I'm trying to do it cheap. I'm spending the money on the steel parts, good cold rolled steel and the nuts and bolts from fastenal all are grade 5 or better.
I went to Harbor Freight and talked them out of a 6" china vice that sells for $80.00 got them down to $40.00 with out using coupons or specials just some BSing basicly I got the vice at their cost.
My fist vice is getting loose in the threads I think the casting is going to let go or its getting close to stripping out on the vices main screw thread, for it being a 20 year old harbor freight type (4"vice) I think I got my money's worth out of it. I'll still use the 4" vice until it craps out, but now with this 6" I have more capacity, it will hold larger parts for scraping or working on for making the shaper and mill. I'm going to cast some soft jaws for the vice soon. I plan on casting the sheaves for the shaper using lost foam patterns, I hope to be able to make them with the grooves in place, I'll make the pulley shaft hole by using a 5/8"" steel mandrel cast in place. Once cast, drive the mandrel out with the press. Should be "very little machining needed"famous last words.
To make the sand firm for cores one way,I think you need sodium silicate(water glass) mixed in the sand then set the core with Co2 gas. co2 gas I think can be made from vinegar and baking soda but I'm not sure. When I get to making cores I plan on using molasses to make a baked sand core. The way to do it is in the Gingery books.
I've used some very damp sand due to the very low humidity where I live to help keep from having steam inclusions in the cast part just use a coat hanger wire. push it down to the pattern unntil it touches then pull it back out . holes are spaced about 1/2" apart all over the pattern top and bottom, on the bottom after venting with the wire I lightly rub over the holes cause if you don't the liquid aluminum can leak out of the mold. I found that out by loosing most of the metal in one casting( I didn't lightly rub the holes) it set the grass on fire good thing it was on the grass and not on the pavement or I'd be patching the driveway again.. Did I say casting it fun?!!! YES!!!
To just melt metal and pour aluminum into pigs or ingots . Make a ingot mold out of scrap angle iron weld the iron into trays if you watch the video of me casting you will get the idea of how to make that ingot mold no need for sand. Pop cans are a lot of work to melt from what I've heard so I haven't done many. I do melt down aluminum foil and all the aluminum shavings if I had aluminum cans I'd do them too. I have some aluminum pots and pans to cut up to melt along with kitchen utensils that are aluminum. I seen where one guy was using a log splitter to bust up transmissions and engine blocks to melt that gives me some ideas!
Don't be afraid to experiment but do think what the result could be before you do something strange. One of my biggest fears is spilling aluminum on my feet or getting a blast from the furnace from a oil smoke cloud. I'll do a cold practice run on a pour with all the tools just to make sure I do not have a tripping or stumbling hazard first.
Have fun and be careful not paranoid.
I'm not sure what you are talking about "static shock"???? I did get shocked from a gas fired yard vacuum/leaf blower all the time to stop that I took a length of copper wire tied to one ankle let the length about 3' drag behind me. the copper wire was just bare wire no insulation on it. The bare wire attached to one ankle would allow the static charge to dissipate off of me so no more lightning coming off of my feet. Until I did that it felt like I was stepping on needles.