Venice Motor Bikes
Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Around & around we go............. 
CA Laws
- Thread starter Rockwells
- Start date
That my friend is very true, I fully agree with that. My last run in with a CHP Officer here in CA, which is why I started this thread. The Officer claimed that he "Thinks" that my Gas Powered Mountain Bike is now considered as a Dirt Bike, WTF. How stupid are these cops getting these days? He made me walk the bike over a mile home, but I still ride the thing everywhere. Thanks to the back roads(County Roads), lucky for me I have family that work for the County Road Department, I guess, lol. I know that County Roads are also known as County Highway Roads, CHP are not called CCHP(California County Highway Patrol). But, I can't push my luck to far, these city/rookie cops need to be trained somewhere else other than this small town.
But all in all, there is some great information coming into play.
thatsdax
Member
What worries me is that you guys are saying that your bicycles are motorized making them a motorized vehicle or a motor Vehicle. Or it may be that the State of CA is saying it. And that is worrisome. I would hate to see this definition of a simple bicycle spread from CA to other places. This would be terrible if this happens. This would not be good at all. What will be next? I can only hope that the State of CA would Adopt the AZ law defining them as Bicycles which reflects the Federal law. In this time of high fuel prices, and ways to conserve our natural resources, it would only be for the best to keep our motor assisted bicycles defined as bicycles so that more people can afford to ride them to work and other places which will help conserve and save the planet ! Too bad CA does not practice or even care about saving the planet and has decided to regulate motor assisted bicycles as a motorized vehicle. This is sad indeed. I am done....
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rockvoice
New Member
California does not care about saving the planet? What? Isnt california the place where no one will ship to because our emmission standards. WE have the most agressive clean air and pollution standards in the world . I'm not an environmentalist or anything but that just seemed like a funny statement especially from non californians.
California does have some strange restrictions but, overall, I like them better than the Arizona restrictions. In California, I can ride my legal “motorized bicycle/moped” at 30mph. That same bike would only be allowed 25mph in AZ.
MotorbikeMike
Dealer
Hi guys! Here it goes, the most fun you have seen online in such a long time! We will now invite all who want to play to join in.
Now, I've got to tell you-all, this may not be for the faint of heart, those of you with weak stomachs, or breathing problems should grab a chair and just watch from the sidelines. Soooo.....what will this "Knightly" challenge be?
We will all (the foremost Bravehearts anyway), line up and try to resuscitate a Dead Horse! This topic has been beaten, flogged, dragged from Board to board, Unbelieved, Disbelieved, explained, expounded, detailed, dissected, re-conected, bisected, inspected, interpreted, and sometimes even ingested, and every other thing that a man (or even a highly trained Chimpanzee) could possibly add, subtract, multiple, divide, or just do! And so,even in the face of all these other different kinds of thoughts, I stand alone, but, when the Judge walked in with his Seeing-Eye Dog, I knew, YES I Knew, it was another case of American Blind Justice!
And there I was with my 27 color glossy photographs with the circles and arrows on the back!
Ok, what shall it be, the Heimlich Maneuver, mouth to mouth resuscitation, compressed air and a face mask?
Or can we all agree to disagree? To quote an infamous californian "can' we all just get along?"
There are people in California who know what our laws are, and I count myself among them. Venice and Scotchmo, I never promoted Mirrors and Horn, because I got so much flack about the more "generic" parts of the law.
Rockwell, Amigo, just get a plate, wear a helmet and survive in the Jungle that is California!
Rockvoice, yes the CA. Government is truly only in it for the money, I could tell you horror stories that I know to be true, about EPA and CARB actions here.
Scotchmo Huzza! amigo!, yes we are indeed bound by the foolish laws they have made BUT as you know, the Moped law is completely livable!
After we try to resuscitate the dead horse, I want to propose that we bury our dead, and learn to live and fight another day.
I will agree, that people who do not live here may not understand what we go through, BUT please just let us do it as we always have without any added confusion? We live, work, and eventually die here and we need to do it in the way that we are successful doing.
Mike
Located in the center of the problem
Sacramento, CA.
Now, I've got to tell you-all, this may not be for the faint of heart, those of you with weak stomachs, or breathing problems should grab a chair and just watch from the sidelines. Soooo.....what will this "Knightly" challenge be?
We will all (the foremost Bravehearts anyway), line up and try to resuscitate a Dead Horse! This topic has been beaten, flogged, dragged from Board to board, Unbelieved, Disbelieved, explained, expounded, detailed, dissected, re-conected, bisected, inspected, interpreted, and sometimes even ingested, and every other thing that a man (or even a highly trained Chimpanzee) could possibly add, subtract, multiple, divide, or just do! And so,even in the face of all these other different kinds of thoughts, I stand alone, but, when the Judge walked in with his Seeing-Eye Dog, I knew, YES I Knew, it was another case of American Blind Justice!
And there I was with my 27 color glossy photographs with the circles and arrows on the back!
Ok, what shall it be, the Heimlich Maneuver, mouth to mouth resuscitation, compressed air and a face mask?
Or can we all agree to disagree? To quote an infamous californian "can' we all just get along?"
There are people in California who know what our laws are, and I count myself among them. Venice and Scotchmo, I never promoted Mirrors and Horn, because I got so much flack about the more "generic" parts of the law.
Rockwell, Amigo, just get a plate, wear a helmet and survive in the Jungle that is California!
Rockvoice, yes the CA. Government is truly only in it for the money, I could tell you horror stories that I know to be true, about EPA and CARB actions here.
Scotchmo Huzza! amigo!, yes we are indeed bound by the foolish laws they have made BUT as you know, the Moped law is completely livable!
After we try to resuscitate the dead horse, I want to propose that we bury our dead, and learn to live and fight another day.
I will agree, that people who do not live here may not understand what we go through, BUT please just let us do it as we always have without any added confusion? We live, work, and eventually die here and we need to do it in the way that we are successful doing.
Mike
Located in the center of the problem
Sacramento, CA.
bairdco
a guy who makes cool bikes
one of these days, i'm gonna rig up some turn signals, a horn, lights, and all that other crap, go to the DMV and DEMAND that i be allowed to take my M1, or M2 (whichever one they finally decide i really need) test on a goofy bicycle with a stupid motor.
i'll bring in every written law i can find, even the one's that contradict each other, make sure i'm in compliance with them all, and take up their whole day, until they let me have the "privilege" of being legal.
i'll pay my 16, 17, 18, 19 dollars (whichever they decide) and ride my bicycle around some cones like a shriner in a hick-town parade.
then, when i have everything sorted out, and there's absolutely no way i can get a ticket just for riding a bicycle-ized motor, i'll contact arnold schwartzenegger, tell him of our plight, and we can all be happy that they are now paying attention to us, and giving us the rights we deserve.
like the right to pay insurance, the right to pay registration fees, the right to safety inspections, smog tests, custom vehicle fees...
hopefully, the state will come out with new regulations to legitimize our little hobby, like no riding in bicycle lanes ('cause who wants to share the road with people who actually pedal? c'mon, pedaling? that's prehistoric!)
heck, maybe, if we complain loud enough, they'll give us the same status as pocket bikes, gopeds, and mini bikes, and designate us as "off road" only vehicles. that would be awesome! especially since i live in orange county, and there's no such thing as "off road" around here...
gee, i can't wait till we're all legal.
but for now, i need to go around in circles in the parking lot, and practice my hand signals...
i'll bring in every written law i can find, even the one's that contradict each other, make sure i'm in compliance with them all, and take up their whole day, until they let me have the "privilege" of being legal.
i'll pay my 16, 17, 18, 19 dollars (whichever they decide) and ride my bicycle around some cones like a shriner in a hick-town parade.
then, when i have everything sorted out, and there's absolutely no way i can get a ticket just for riding a bicycle-ized motor, i'll contact arnold schwartzenegger, tell him of our plight, and we can all be happy that they are now paying attention to us, and giving us the rights we deserve.
like the right to pay insurance, the right to pay registration fees, the right to safety inspections, smog tests, custom vehicle fees...
hopefully, the state will come out with new regulations to legitimize our little hobby, like no riding in bicycle lanes ('cause who wants to share the road with people who actually pedal? c'mon, pedaling? that's prehistoric!)
heck, maybe, if we complain loud enough, they'll give us the same status as pocket bikes, gopeds, and mini bikes, and designate us as "off road" only vehicles. that would be awesome! especially since i live in orange county, and there's no such thing as "off road" around here...
gee, i can't wait till we're all legal.
but for now, i need to go around in circles in the parking lot, and practice my hand signals...
bairdco,
If you want to get just the M2 license, they will allow you to take the driving test on a motorized bicycle that has the required equipment and plate. The turn signals that you mentioned are not required. If you don’t want them, you can use hand signals.
Since the actual tests are the same, you could borrow a small motorcycle for the driving test and go ahead and get the M1 license. It is the same cost/process and than you are legal to ride any two wheeled vehicle.
For a moped or motorized bicycle, no insurance, yearly registration, inspection, or smog checks. I hope it stays that way. The one time moped fee is $19. Next year it will be $20. It will increase by $1 every year. But once paid you never have to do it again for that bike.
The law specifically allows you to ride in bike lanes if needed (VC section 21209b). Basically, if you can’t keep up with traffic, you ride in the bike lane or on the shoulder.
If you want to legally go over 30mph, than you need an M1 license and you will be required to register your bike as a motorcycle/motor driven cycle (insurance, yearly fees, smog certification or SPCNS designation). Now you really have to jump through some hoops. Much more trouble than the moped designation.
The “sweet spot” in California law is the 406(a) definition. That allows us to ride a homemade 2hp, 30mph motorized bicycle with the correct equipment. And we do not have any of the yearly compliance costs associated with a motor vehicle.
bairdco
a guy who makes cool bikes
i was pretty much joking. right now, i don't even have a driver's license anymore, and i don't want to get one. i no longer own a car, and i don't want to get one. i don't want a license, because then i have to pay for a "non-owner" insurance policy, which i don't want. all of these things i don't have, are because i don't want them, not because i'm in any trouble. if i wanted a license, car, and insurance, i could get them.
so i can't get an m2 endorsement on my license, because i don't have one, i can't get an m1 license, because i don't have insurance (or a motorcycle,) so basically, i have a bicycle with a motor on it, and i'm gonna keep riding it around until the "law" actually forces me to do something about it. and the way it's going, i ain't worried.
i wave at cops, cops wave back. so far. they don't even care.
the only reason i'll probably register my bike, is in case it gets stolen, i have a better chance of recovering it. hopefully the one jerk cop that i haven't run into yet would stop the guy who steals it.
we also have to remember that all the laws currently on the books, are from the 70's, when the "chicken motor" had it's brief time in the spotlight. they haven't figured out yet what we're actually doing now.
but they will.
so, with that said, i'm going with the old saying:
"to ask permission is to seek denial"
so i can't get an m2 endorsement on my license, because i don't have one, i can't get an m1 license, because i don't have insurance (or a motorcycle,) so basically, i have a bicycle with a motor on it, and i'm gonna keep riding it around until the "law" actually forces me to do something about it. and the way it's going, i ain't worried.
i wave at cops, cops wave back. so far. they don't even care.
the only reason i'll probably register my bike, is in case it gets stolen, i have a better chance of recovering it. hopefully the one jerk cop that i haven't run into yet would stop the guy who steals it.
we also have to remember that all the laws currently on the books, are from the 70's, when the "chicken motor" had it's brief time in the spotlight. they haven't figured out yet what we're actually doing now.
but they will.
so, with that said, i'm going with the old saying:
"to ask permission is to seek denial"
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Regardless whether you have a driver’s license or the proper equipment on your bike, you will find it easier to “register” your motorized bicycle as a moped rather than as a bicycle. Bicycle registrations are dependent on the local jurisdiction and generally require renewal every three years. The maximum fees are limited but over time, can add up to more than a moped. The moped form reg230.pdf is a one-time thing. They don’t ask for a license number, or insurance or smog info. It is so easy and straightforward that it is hard to believe that it originated from the DMV. Fill it out and send it in with $19 and you are now “registered” and you get a plate to display that will often keep the law off your back even when you're unsure about the other required equipment or license. The hardest part about the whole process is figuring out how to mount the plate on your bike.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg230.pdf
Venice Motor Bikes
Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Just out of curiosity; How big is the moped plate they send you, & how big is a bicycle plate?
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A moped plate is exactly the same size as a motorcycle plate. 7”Lx4”H.
I’m not sure if all bicycle plates are the same. The bicycle “plate” that I saw was a bendable, metal, adhesive backed, emblem that goes on the seat tube.
Venice Motor Bikes
Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
In that case, I would rather have a bicycle plate!!
I would rather not have to register any of my vehicles but this section is called “Laws and Legislation” and this thread is “CA Laws”. And a bicycle sticker (indicia) has nothing to do with making a motorized bicycle legal. The moped license plate does and is the primary evidence for an officer to assume that you are riding a legal vehicle. He can see it as you ride by.
That bicycle sticker does nothing for you. The moped plate keeps you from getting stopped.
bairdco
a guy who makes cool bikes
here's some more interesting stuff i dug up on california laws about registering bicycles (as bicycles.)
these ar cities where a bicycle MUST be registered or it may be impounded by the police, you may be ticketed, etc.
since our toys are still bicycles, motorized or not, this applies...
Bicycle Registration Information - City of Berkeley, CA
"City of Berkeley Municipal Code Section 14.68.020: It is unlawful for any person to operate or use a bicycle or motorized bicycle in the city which has not been registered and licensed in accordance with Section 39002(a) of the Vehicle Code of the state. (Ord. 4957-NS § 4, 1976)."
city of Davis, and the University:
Bicycle License - Davis Wiki
Los Angeles: Bicycle Licenses Required (LAMC 26.01) Ordinance repealed on June 2, 2009. Bicycle licenses are no longer required in the City of Los Angeles.
San Mateo: San Mateo, CA - Official Website - 11.56 Bicycles
Santa Monica: Santa Monica Municipal Code (Santa Monica, California)
(Santa Monica is especially harsh. fines of 1000 dollars or more have been recorded, along with jail time, just for not having a little tag on your bike.)
and good old Huntington Beach, the scene of the infamous OP pro riot of '86:
In March 2003, the city of Huntington Beach City Council repealed the Municipal Code law which required bicycles within the city to be licensed. You do not need a bicycle license in Huntington Beach.
i remember the year after the riot, labor day weekend, cops would just come down in full force, confiscating every bike that was on the streets. they had truckloads of them. you had to somehow prove that it was your bike to get it back. at least that's what they told you. i know people who got 5 or 6 bikes, just by going down to the impound and saying "yup, that one's mine..."
anyway,these are the ones that popped up, but i'm not gonna look up every city. go do it yourself.
these ar cities where a bicycle MUST be registered or it may be impounded by the police, you may be ticketed, etc.
since our toys are still bicycles, motorized or not, this applies...
Bicycle Registration Information - City of Berkeley, CA
"City of Berkeley Municipal Code Section 14.68.020: It is unlawful for any person to operate or use a bicycle or motorized bicycle in the city which has not been registered and licensed in accordance with Section 39002(a) of the Vehicle Code of the state. (Ord. 4957-NS § 4, 1976)."
city of Davis, and the University:
Bicycle License - Davis Wiki
Los Angeles: Bicycle Licenses Required (LAMC 26.01) Ordinance repealed on June 2, 2009. Bicycle licenses are no longer required in the City of Los Angeles.
San Mateo: San Mateo, CA - Official Website - 11.56 Bicycles
Santa Monica: Santa Monica Municipal Code (Santa Monica, California)
(Santa Monica is especially harsh. fines of 1000 dollars or more have been recorded, along with jail time, just for not having a little tag on your bike.)
and good old Huntington Beach, the scene of the infamous OP pro riot of '86:
In March 2003, the city of Huntington Beach City Council repealed the Municipal Code law which required bicycles within the city to be licensed. You do not need a bicycle license in Huntington Beach.
i remember the year after the riot, labor day weekend, cops would just come down in full force, confiscating every bike that was on the streets. they had truckloads of them. you had to somehow prove that it was your bike to get it back. at least that's what they told you. i know people who got 5 or 6 bikes, just by going down to the impound and saying "yup, that one's mine..."
anyway,these are the ones that popped up, but i'm not gonna look up every city. go do it yourself.
Venice Motor Bikes
Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
I rode MBs here in LA for 3 years without a helmet & I never had a problem with the police... (Now I wear one)
I also have a M1 license & lights for night riding.
I am confident that these things will keep 'Johny Law" off my back!!
You guys go ahead & get your plate & horn & mirrors & turn signals & brake lights & whatever else you think you need just to ride your bikes without the police messing with you & ride safe... I'm done with this one...
I also have a M1 license & lights for night riding.
I am confident that these things will keep 'Johny Law" off my back!!
You guys go ahead & get your plate & horn & mirrors & turn signals & brake lights & whatever else you think you need just to ride your bikes without the police messing with you & ride safe... I'm done with this one...
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GearNut
Active Member
i agree with you.
however i'd love to find out more info on the "la mesa" thing i quoted.
i can't find any info on it online. last thing i need is some overzealous cops in la mesa to impound my bicycle.
to be honest i don't ever need to ride through la mesa anyway
While using transportation other than an MB, just go to the dept. and ask them.
I have never risked riding anywhere near LaMesa myself, I just have learned vicariously through the misfortunes of 2 friends. Each incident was about 1 month apart. One got a fine, $150.00 if I recall correctly. The other did the chain removal trick and got a stern warning about fines and impoundment. This all was about 10 years ago, and I highly doubt the laws have changed.
GearNut
Active Member
Haha! Yeah, I was once harassed for walking down the sidewalk at night without a turned on flashlight in my hand. I think the cop thought I was up to something and used that as an excuse to interrogate me. I was 19 years old and it was 11:30 at night, just walking from work to a friend's house.
*sorry for the thread hijack*
Rant done....