Bike builders that have machine tools/shops

[indian22]

Late lunch break today, but stayed at the lathe to get a start on the reduction gear housing. Which will be mounted on the bottom bracket axle, I showed previously. I shortened the axle to 10.5" all that length was taken on the motor drive side. I had to mill a new taper on the axle a 2degree J.I.S. taper plus drilling and tapping the shaft end. I'm using 3.5" 6061 aluminum round rod for the bearing and sprocket body. On this first reduction gear I'm using stuff I had. The final drive sprocket is 14t steel go cart style 3/4" jack shaft sprocket. The primary side of the drive is 32t, also steel. I'm using a 3/4" x 2" O.D. roller bearing, and I have room to mount it on the 28t side, I'm using 3/4" oil lite bronze on the 14t side where both vertical and horizontal space is lacking. I had planned to use oil lite's on both ends, as I've done in the past, on offset, bottom bracket setups.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Eagerly waiting to see how your work comes together Rick.

Tom

 

[indian22]

Hi Tom,

Hope all is well with you guys. It was a glorious day here warm, clear and lite winds. It was a day to fly for sure. I spent most off ot in the shop.

A bit of a preview Tom, on the reduction drive. Bearing pocket is .570 deep, I won't press fit just yet, sprocket will sit flush to the housing and bolt on. I turned a ring just outside the bearing pocket to center the sprocket. The sprocket will need a lot bigger hole. I'll complete the work on this side before flipping the part to bore the smaller pocket for the small sprocket and it's bronze bearing, which is already pressed into the sprocket and one half of it's jack shaft tube. The second side will also be a flush sprocket and press fit and the sprocket also bolted to the little aluminum housing.. All bolted together it's about 2.5" thick including the thickness of the two sprockets for 415 chain or 420 if needed. Not China kit junk chain either.

Have a great weekend guys.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Sweet!

 

[indian22]

Thanks Tom.

Fast change of both sprockets is one reason for this reduction design and in doing so lessens the need for rear sprocket removal to experiment with ratios. The jack shaft, inside the motor case works well, but is hard to work with when making motor and or sprocket changes like I'm doing with my 'Ol Crow V twin electric.

My Harley "Peashooter" and Simplex use the bushed go cart sprockets, with no reduction, just chain alignment of primary to final chains. Also work and wear well and with the five speed transmissions they don't need sprocket reduction, just chain alignment. Photo shows non reduction, bottom bracket sprockets using go cart jack shaft sprockets welded end to end, with Oilite brass bushings.

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Rick,
Interesting to see how you overcame the chain alignment issues on your Peashooter. I'm essentially using the same (or a clone) 125cc 5-speed motor as you in my ACE but presumably the reason my motor's output & rear sprockets align without the need for a jackshaft is because I went with a rear wheel from the same motorcycle as the engine (essentially Honda CG125 derived parts) to help ensure correct chain alignment. What rear wheel did you go with on the Peashooter?

 

[indian22]

Hi Pete, coffee time here & afternoon rest break.

Using the bottom bracket as a Jack shaft is a natural for moto's which could be pedaled and point to original turn of the 20th. century motorcycles. Matching motor & hub makes sense. I use clincher bicycle wheels on most of mine including the Peashooter. Coaster hub or drum, like the early bikes. 3" tires on 26" rims stand almost 27.5" very similar to original diameter.

I favor the Worksman wheels, but the HD is on some import wheels at the moment.

My Simplex runs the same 125cc Honda pushrod clone, and has the same chain crossover sprockets. It too is chained up for pedals, as a moto bicycle, pegs or boards used instead would eliminate the jump over the bottom bracket axle, but still wouldn't line up correctly for a single chain drive without a big motor offset.

A normal guy would definitely run speed rated tires and wheels and also tag and register for use on the highways, but I'm sticking to the early racing look and keeping a low profile and speeds to match.

Time to get back at it.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Last couple of days I've really given my lathe a workout, but have the reduction drive housing machined, just need to make a few skim passes with the lathe to make it pretty. Then put the mill to work & drill and tap the sprocket bolt patterns.

 

[indian22]

This is how the bottom bracket goes together, but need to make bearing spacer and drill both sprockets and drill/tap the housing. The 32t sprocket will be used in place of the 28t shown. I'm going 6 hole in the larger sprocket 4 hole in the small one. I finished the 6 hole this morning and need to tap the case next before moving on to the 14 t sprocket work.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Drilled and tapped, but no fasteners for the small gear, Ace had socket head fasteners but way long so today I shorten bolts. Then I can arbor mount the housing in the lathe and turn down the chuck mark's and scuffs.

The 32t sprocket used will be replaced after testing with a new one, probably aluminum, that I will machine when I have the time.

My next job is to machine a new set of electric motor output shafts to allow running larger primary OD sprockets. These will adapt 10mm to 5/8" or larger, be keyed and extend the motor shaft up to two inches. The baby scooter chains used on these motors are a joke, just barely rated above the strength of good bicycle chain.

Finished 1st. one! Guaranteed that the next reduction drive will be finished in a third the time it took to complete this one and it will be a twin sealed bearing assembly.

Both lathe and mill worked without any big problems so I'm feeling pretty good about both machines.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Rick, what is that indicator base, right side of photo #2? Looks like a Last Word but the base?

I am assuming (dirty word) that you drilled and tapped the sprocket hub, for lack of a better word. off the mill dials . Which carry both of the transfer sprockets. Just for sh!ts and giggles have you indicated the sprocket crowns for concentricity.
Mine from which I did not make runs .020 TIR..
Keep up the good work Rick. I'm rot'n for ya. Taco time, later Dude.

Tom

 

[indian22]

Tom that "base" is actually a face plate, that I use to keep that 1" Mitutoyo on a Shar's mag base from dumping over on wooden surfaces.

Locating with dials was "fun", tongue in cheek, but 6 hole and four hole went pretty easy. Backlash on these small machines will get you in trouble if you ever back track, so I keep x and y axis caught up through the whole process. Rotary table would have been nice.

I haven't checked runout on either sprocket, but when I cleaned up the finish running the drive on an arbor held in the 4 jaw the 14t looked perfect but the big sprocket had some verticalrunout, but no wobble, that was probably dues to my not supporting the 3/4" steel shaft sticking out 5" with the weight of the reduction sprocket on it without any tail stock support. I was just polishing with paper and not thinking much about concentricity. I'll check it out tomorrow with tailstock support.

Hopefully I will have a rotary table and or a DRO before I tackle the next reduction drive build for my Peashooter Harley.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Tom I've really enjoyed your tool shop thread and plan on supporting it and those regulars which do the same. That said I'd also like to encourage others to join in, regardless of what they have in the way of tools or what they may lack...including experience.

It took me a few hours to clean and reorganize my small shop after a week of using ginders, belt sander, band saw, drill press, mill and especially my mini lathe a 7" x 14" 3/4 hp using mainly the 4", independent, 4 jaw chuck. Daily cleanup was practiced but still needed more at the end.

I've mentioned some projects planned, but noticed some things during the last week, especially effecting the use of my lathe. Yesterday I made sure the face plate matched the lathe's mount perfectly, this had not been done and I finally got round to it.

Next job was to make a mount for a long travel indicator to use primarily behind the carriage to indicate absolute zero and .0015 depth accuracy for boring holes and general lathe drilling and of course for turning. This clamps to the operator side of the way and can be quickly to the chuck side if needed or removed completely for use of the tail stock. Poor boy DRO.

Next is turn and bore a highly accurate bushing for the quick tool change post at the moment this is the least rigid element in my lathe setup. Though I can really tighten the entire post it can and did slip several thou a few times during boring operations last week. I saved the part, but it could have been catastrophic and before I go any further I have to fix it. Super sloppy factory work and zero quality control fitting this bushing/tool post combination on an otherwise good quick change.

To this point I'm really pleased with the new mill. Though in appearance it is the same mill as my last one, it's not. It's noticeably more powerful 3/4 hp rather than 1/2 hp also fit and finish much improved on this Wen labeled mill. Seig is the actual manufacturer but they private label for many distributors Wen being just one. Big, knowlegeable distributors order machines spec'd out as to features and some, like Wen, Grizzley & Little Machine Shop make sure their machines are detailed properly prior to shipping to customers. My mill was actually ready to run after some easy cleanup, oiling and mounting on a solid cabinet.
The mill has to be bolted securely. It's not a table top affair like a drill press, which can be moved about on a work bench. Very top heavy.

Hopefully I'll sort the lathe out this afternoon and get started on electric motor arbor extensions and shaft adaptors tomorrow.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Tom just a photo to give insight of my wanderings past. Got the T shirt!

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

20 min. South of me Rick, on Hwy67, just North of I-94. Small world eh?

Tom

 

[indian22]

Closer than I thought Tom and yes it is a small world in many ways today.

Tools still coming in about every day along with materials and parts. I should get the ER 40 lathe chuck this Tuesday. I suppose that I should also buy the rotary table too with a tailstock. I think they are in stock now, no real reason to wait.

I'm looking at mill DRO's too and trying to get a fix on a high quality setup. Also an x axis motor drive of the two I think motor drive is first on my list.

Shop lighting is really bad so this needs my attention before all else. Each machine needs a dedicated light source. I used a led camera ring light on the mill and it works well. I'm thinking the same for the lathe, belt sander, bandsaw and grinder station. Then deal with the overhead fixtures required.

Even a small machine shop requires quite a lot of machines and tools to turn out a variety of basic projects with any efficiency while holding a degree of accuracy.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

What year did you come by that T-shirt Rick? I've been here since 06.

That they make DRO's for your mill so you don't have to read the dials is a blessing.
In 69, an interesting position.
My first year of apprenticeship. Round Top Bridgeport's with their .125" screw per turn were part in the mix.
All were badged WWII war production machines.
A Travel Dial came into the shop on a J Head in mid 70's. Long before DRO's.
Was received like a hot fart on her honeymoon.
When the various glass scale DRO's came on the scene they were a boon to productivity.
You no longer had to finish X or Y in a right hand turn to take up lash in the screw. Today I still with a DRO finish a move with a turn to the right. All my work stays in the + - .001" range.
My most used Bridgeport has a glass scale Mitutoyo. My freshest mill I mounted a Newall linear encoder DRO.
Newall Electronics - Digital Readout (DRO) and Linear Encoders

Next time you get so close Rick, you better come and hang up your spurs at my place.

Tom

 

[fasteddy]

Tom, Have you ever tried to explain what it was like to a newly minted machinist just to watch their eye glaze over because their brain can't comprehend what it was like to actually have to figure things out and set it up and not let the machine do it for you?

Myself, I'd take evil pleasure in doing that.

Steve.

 

[indian22]

Tom that shirt dates back 10 years or so. I wonder if that dealership still exists?

Manual machine work is satisfying as a hobby, but for production work it's too labor intensive and commercially impractical. One or two off prototypes from a tidy, small enterprise might be ok, but very expensive. With small machines, even with digital aids, commercial production is totally fruitless. Hobby means hobby with small machines.

I thing back on the old Lemound, Logans, Atlas machines and I see complete shops of great equipment with men who could and did it all in their heads, no digital and not much more than a a few sets of tables and a stub pencil to calculate.

I'm blessed with the means to set up for my own use....not for commercialization.

Steve glazed eyes, or eyes rolled back describes a lot of folks in many situations. Trig anyone and you might induce cardiac arrest! Sine of our times.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Tom that shirt dates back 10 years or so. I wonder if that dealership still exists?

Wisconsin Harley-Davidson - Google Maps It is most definitely there Rick.
Mona had some of her chemo treatments just across the road.

Tom