Bike builders that have machine tools/shops

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PeteMcP

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Jun 27, 2017
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Back in 1970 when I was 15, my school's Careers Teacher arranged a week's 'work experience' at local establishments for boys in my year. I'd always had artistic talent and so it was deemed a week spent in the draughtsman's office at the huge Vickers plant in Newcastle, where they built tanks and other military hardware, would be my lot. At school back in those days, fashion dictated you were lumped into one of two categories - either 'skinhead' or 'hairy' - and I was most definitely the latter. In fact it was not until a few years later, two months after my 19th birthday - when my taste in music and nightclubs veered from heavy rock to funky disco - that I eventually consented to having my hair tidily sheared at the barbers. (Met Jen two weeks after that haircut and I can say for sure she wouldn't have looked twice at me with foot-long locks!). Anyhow, I digress...back to the Vickers episode.
Full of enthusiasm, I turned up to the drawing office at Vickers bright and early and was greeted by the HR manager who took one look at me and immediately said I would need to have my long hair cut short before I could even think about frequenting the premises, never mind starting work. Yeah, well, 15 or not, I told him that was NEVER going to happen. And I stood my ground, arguing what difference long hair made to anyone's ability in a drawing office?! He explained that part of my experience would be a tour of the machine shop floor - where the hazards were many and lethal. And to help illustrate just how lethal, he whipped out a photo album and proceeded to show me photos of severely injured victims whose long hair had become entangled in machinery with predictably gruesome outcomes - some fatal. I've never forgotten every one of those ultra-graphic photos he insisted I take a good look at - especially the one showing a guy's face ripped clean off - but the fact is, even such a shocking thing to inflict on a schoolboy was still never going to result in me getting my hair cut just for the sake of a week's work experience. Back in those days, a high percentage of grown adult men grew long hair, so I volunteered to wear a hair net - just like many of the machine shop crew who I'd seen in their hundreds manning Vickers machinery - but Mr HR insisted nothing short of a haircut would suffice. Sooo.... we parted ways and I ended up spending a week playing football in a local park with some pals who'd left school and every day at tea time when I returned home I told my parents a pack of lies about what I did that day at Vickers. I even believed I'd go to my grave with long hair - but fashions change with the times. Now I look back at photos of those days and wonder what the **** I was thinking, lol.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Mill scheduled for delivery today.

Parts continue to come in so far so good. I have more than a dozen items on their way. So far I've sourced everything from U.S. distributors & all items in stock. Potential delays from China shipping have been avoided. There is still the 4" rotary table, index plates, round vise and 3 jaw chuck to be ordered, though they are in stock here in the states. I need for gear and sprocket work. These are pricey items but really add to the mills utility.

I learned the hard way, (expensive lesson) from my first mini mill purchase that many items really have to be down sized dramatically to fit the small mills x, y and a travel dimensions. I found 3" wide low profile vise the most practical on a small table. 4" rotary table stub (screw) length drills and R8 collets really are space savers as are mini fly cutters which work well with 1/4" wide tool. Fly cutting works well in all materials if cutter is limited to 1.2" max and shallow cuts. Slitting saw works well with 3/8" shaft and appropriate collet or R8 holder.

Sourcing these took some time and several vendors to find what I needed, in stock and at decent price points. What I've actually ordered is approaching the same dollar amount as I paid for the mill. If I hadn't already purchased some items for the lathe which can be utilized on both mill and lathe; I would already have gone well past the cost of my mill with "accessories". Adding the rotary table & the items associated with it will add another$600. Plus to the total.

Depending on the mills drive train & how rugged the drive train gears are & how noisy. A swap to belt drive is a real possibility, as this swap is a really nice change: quiet, dependable and gains speed of an extra 1,000 rpm for nice finishes in aluminum. Stripped nylon or steel gears are the most common big failure in these mills, even when steel gears are used. I never stripped gears in my first mini mill and I used it pretty hard so I could get lucky.

I will definitely have to use this tool a lot to justify this much of an investment, but I'm tired of waiting on machine time to get a small part fabricated and machine time is really expensive here with minimum of 1 hr @$80. & up, one hour plus 10 minutes equals $160 total. If you can wait a couple of weeks they will get 'round tuit, as a favor!

Rick C
 

Tom from Rubicon

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Apr 4, 2016
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Rubicon, Wisconsin
Got a photo of the rotary table Rick?
Does it have two axis cross slides?
A 6" rotary table came with my first virgin Bridgeport. I never used it. Never had a need as I got a good deal on a 12" rotary table with rotary feed.

On a side note of no great significance. Yesterday FB Marketplace led me to a lady selling lidded Corningware sets of four. in Franklin Wi which is just South of Greendale.
Passed right by the subdivision where Lynne of MBRebel has her business. Small World eh?

Tom
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Hi Tom, hope both of you are in good health. Seems day to day for all of us young and old alike, but I lost my bounce a couple of decades back and rebound is quite spongy.

Still waiting for the mill.10 days from Illinois is kinda' slow delivery.

I don't have a photo Tom, but will give more a thorugh search for one. This one is a vertical/horizontal and fixed with x and y travel determined by table adjustment or fixturing depending on the task at hand.

Size of most tools used on a mini anything are really quite limited. I tried 5" and 4" vises on my original mini mill and both were extremely limited in the y travel. 3" vise in a low profile I found best all around but on many occasions a 2" pin less vise was a go to tool.

I had a 3" rotary table on that first machine first then went to 4" which I used most, but the 3" also got some use. Tramming the vise each time, which has to be removed typically to mount the rotary table, was a pain. The table is too short to more or less leave the rotary table setup at the end, also flex caused with rotary table at the end of the table needs a balance weight at the opposite table end. To do a wide variety of work on a mini mill you have to jump through a lot of hoops to be successful. Big learning curve involved and experienced machine operators need to leave big machine expectations at the door. Everything is smaller, slower and more temperamental, but the small parts they turn out are quite nice.

It is a small world Tom. I have lots of Corningware but few lids, glass or plastic. I keep looking for lids at estate sales etc but so are the ladies.

Rick C
 

Tom from Rubicon

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Apr 4, 2016
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Rubicon, Wisconsin
If you want lids for Corningware look on FB market place Rick.
Speaking of which FB market place for another score.
This Christmas last, my eight year old granddaughter Genevieve, impressed me with her skills at following assembly instructions of rather complex Lego toys. Vivie has the makings of an engineer.
What real world mechanical toy kits can teach physics, mechanics, and design? I could only think of one.
Gilberts Erector Sets.
A lady in Oconomowoc, Wi was selling her fathers No. 6 1/2 Erector set made in the early 1940's.
There is paint wear indicative of alot of use. Not a museum set for sure.
The electric motor runs so all the more advanced builds will fully function.

Tom
 

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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Thanks Tom I'll check the market place. I use my Corning ware a lot, great stuff.

Gilbert erector set was a great find as a complete set, not just bits and pieces. A good buddy and I combined sets to make some pretty cool projects together as pre teens in the mid fifties. Great memories. Your right about good toys leading kids into interests which endure. We also had Gilbert chemistry sets which led us into explosive materials by adding additional ingredients not included with the set. Boys and their toys!

Rick C.
 

PeteMcP

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Jun 27, 2017
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Tom, That erector set looks just like what we called MECCANO here in the UK. That and Airfix kits were my go-to pastimes throughout my entire childhood. Do you know if it's something made by Gilbert under license in the US? Or an entirely different product?
 

Tom from Rubicon

Well-Known Member
Apr 4, 2016
2,852
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Rubicon, Wisconsin
Pete,
From Meccano website,

Meccano's strong legacy as one of the oldest construction systems in the world began in 1898, when Frank Hornby invented it in England. Across the Atlantic Ocean in 1913, a similar construction set called Erector was introducted by A.C.Gilbert in the United States. In 2000, these two innovative brands merged and began building together under one global brand name–Meccano.
*Erector was also sold in England back in the day.
A.C. Gilbert Company
109 Kingsway, London, W. C. 2

Tom
 
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Tom from Rubicon

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Apr 4, 2016
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Rubicon, Wisconsin
The way cover is a nice touch for a low cost machine Rick.

Nice guy on a wooden boat forum had a Last Word that took a sh!t. I'm sending one of my 1970's cased sets that I won't use as I am an Interapid man. Jake has always liked the motorbicycles I post on a motorcycle thread in the Bilge.
1651277159013.png


"I've been fixing a few old dial indicators.
(You can buy a new "import" for about $30)
A twisted hairspring But they a designated pair that are part of an old Harley flywheel truing stand. The date (in pencil) on the back of the face is '67. "

Kinda interesting seeing some the insides of a Starret indicator. Recipient is worthy of my beneficence don't you think?
 
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indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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That's a fine thing you did Tom. I do have a number of dial indicators and test indicators; all Chinese. Some I have in mag stands and others mounted on tool holders for the lathe quick change and bed/tail stock. They actually work quite well.

Tinker Toy's and Lincoln Logs were also big in the 50's. Some splendid creations were formed with these as well. So I add these to the list of creative toys from my childhood.

Rick C.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Tom a friend of mine moved here from Scotland
more than 20 years ago and still uses the sayings of the highlands. His accent hasn't changed a bit after these many years and I hope it never does. He works as a county Sheriif's deputy and is a valued member of our community. Funny how people move about and select new homes in odd places. My mother was a Stuart and her family ended up here too.

I feel for those having to sell off their treasures in order to survive but it's common here as well, but since we are in oil and gas country most everyone is doing really well financially, but that can change in a blink.

Rick C.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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My last post was supposed to go on Pete's thread. Sorry Tom I just screwed up and that's not uncommon for me.

I have the mill mounted on a tool cabinet lower drawer section which is heavy duty steel & 30"tall, which I've greatly reinforced. The top is 2.5" thick wood, bolted at 4 corners to the steel top. I then mounted the mill using four more 3/8" bolts also through the metal cabinet top. I left the cabinet on casters (locking) as I need to be able to move the machine at times. I mounted the vise and made a few cuts, before actually leveling or adjusting anything to get a feel for how the mill stand would function and it worked well. I left the heavy wrenches and loose tools in the lower drawers for weight and expected them to buzz and ring during milling, they did not. I'll set up and adjust the machine today, but feel the cabinet stand will work well with the mill. Though I want to be able to roll and relocate the mill and cabinet at times. I will bolt the cabinet to my floor slab in it's normal location, with casters in place, to both stabilize and level the cabinet stand. My lathe is set up in similar fashion on casters and it stays put with no harmonics under heavy loads (mini wise) & I've not had to adjust it yet. Both machines are of similar weight and power, but the mill is very top heavy and the horizontal mounting plate is minuscule compared to a lathe. Mill mounting concerns are just a bit more of a concern to me as concerns machine noise.

Cleaning the shipping gunk from the mill was time consuming and oiling all movable bearing surfaces added to this too. Three to four hours but had to be done. I don't know what this stuff is exactly, but if left on surfaces it will set up like cement. Don't think of it as a lubricant. It isn't, but it is a good moisture protectant during shipping and storage. I use WD40 as a solvent on old socks to wipe down the parts and follow up with way oil. Lithium grease used lightly, stuff is a chip magnet, on X & Y leads and Bob's your Uncle.

The mill vise is very low profile even mounted on it's swivel base, but removing that base lowers it an inch, which at times may be necessary. I decided to bite the bullet and buy a R8 collet set Imperial fractional, to gain Z clearance for longer tools. I see a set or 2 of stub drills in my future as drilling with larger size jobber length drills is often a very real problem even with collet work holders.

I hope to be working both mill and lathe this week on actual projects. Shop is an absolute catastrophe at the moment but I'll begin sorting and organizing things tomorrow.

Lighting for the mill was necessary as my overhead lighting needs a rework too.

Rick C.
 

Oldbiscuit

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Oct 3, 2020
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Back in 1970 when I was 15, my school's Careers Teacher arranged a week's 'work experience' at local establishments for boys in my year. I'd always had artistic talent and so it was deemed a week spent in the draughtsman's office at the huge Vickers plant in Newcastle, where they built tanks and other military hardware, would be my lot. At school back in those days, fashion dictated you were lumped into one of two categories - either 'skinhead' or 'hairy' - and I was most definitely the latter. In fact it was not until a few years later, two months after my 19th birthday - when my taste in music and nightclubs veered from heavy rock to funky disco - that I eventually consented to having my hair tidily sheared at the barbers. (Met Jen two weeks after that haircut and I can say for sure she wouldn't have looked twice at me with foot-long locks!). Anyhow, I digress...back to the Vickers episode.
Full of enthusiasm, I turned up to the drawing office at Vickers bright and early and was greeted by the HR manager who took one look at me and immediately said I would need to have my long hair cut short before I could even think about frequenting the premises, never mind starting work. Yeah, well, 15 or not, I told him that was NEVER going to happen. And I stood my ground, arguing what difference long hair made to anyone's ability in a drawing office?! He explained that part of my experience would be a tour of the machine shop floor - where the hazards were many and lethal. And to help illustrate just how lethal, he whipped out a photo album and proceeded to show me photos of severely injured victims whose long hair had become entangled in machinery with predictably gruesome outcomes - some fatal. I've never forgotten every one of those ultra-graphic photos he insisted I take a good look at - especially the one showing a guy's face ripped clean off - but the fact is, even such a shocking thing to inflict on a schoolboy was still never going to result in me getting my hair cut just for the sake of a week's work experience. Back in those days, a high percentage of grown adult men grew long hair, so I volunteered to wear a hair net - just like many of the machine shop crew who I'd seen in their hundreds manning Vickers machinery - but Mr HR insisted nothing short of a haircut would suffice. Sooo.... we parted ways and I ended up spending a week playing football in a local park with some pals who'd left school and every day at tea time when I returned home I told my parents a pack of lies about what I did that day at Vickers. I even believed I'd go to my grave with long hair - but fashions change with the times. Now I look back at photos of those days and wonder what the **** I was thinking, lol.
I had shoulder length hair as well back in the early seventies. I was a welder in a factory and they made me put it in a pony tail or I wasn’t allowed on factory floor. After that job I went to work as a auto mechanic where I rolled over my hair with a creeper, tangling it up in the wheels. Coworker had to come to my rescue with scissors to cut me loose. I got a short hair cut after work that very day ! Now I sport a full beard that’s at least 9” long that I constantly have to tuck in my shirt when drilling or welding.
 

fasteddy

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Feb 13, 2009
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British Columbia Canada
My son had hair past his shoulder because his hobby at the time was medieval
re-enacting. He was helping a friend remove a transmission and for what ever reason trans fluid spilled out of it and he dragged his hair through it while he was on the creeper.

Didn't wash out really well and he destroyed a couple of his friends towels try to dry his hair. Hair was gone in a couple of days.

He now has a beard as well.

Hair wrapped up in creeper wheel. That is a special kind of eye watering pain.

Steve.
 

indian22

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
4,736
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113
Oklahoma
Shop safety first; every power tool is out to maim you, they are tools to serve not buddies to fool around with.

Got some shop lighting installed and working with more on order. The mill is mounted and adjusted along with the mill vise and the base firmly attached to the slab and leveled. The mill itself was close to dead on out of the crate. The tilt column was perfect on it's factory set. I guess aligning the vise was the most time consuming but that only took maybe twenty minutes most of which was finding the indicator base that I wanted to use, it's a slick miniature magnetic mount that's infinitely adjustable for the small dial indicators.

I hope to post some photos tomorrow and really use it some this week. I may work a few hours tonight getting things in order. Some of my big wrench sets will just be boxed and or sold. I have several multiple sets of ratchets and sockets in metric and fractional dives up to 1" drive ratchets and torque wrenches. Air tools in bunches and many pounds of brass fittings used in air, hydraulic and welding applications. Getting all things organized in plastic totes and properly labeled to facilitate finding items required later, just takes time.

I did this awhile back and just let it get out of control again.

Rick C.
 

indian22

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Dec 31, 2014
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Mostly found a home for the piles of tools that were laying about and organized, separated, then placed in convenient fashion close to the work at hand. I thought I would need an extra roll box to house everything, but tools I will most often use fit with lot of room to spare. Duplicates and really large wrenches and sockets will be boxed label and stored. Same with house paints, brushes etc. And plumbing tools and other assorted or related items. Install some shelving and find more floor space for sure.

That tool box stand is on casters and will be moved enough to clear the X axis adjustment control. It's a work in progress.

Rick C.

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