are 2 stroke engine kits the same?

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biknut

biknut

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2010
6,653
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Dallas
I've been very happy with my 48cc kit from Zoom Bicycles, but when I say kit I mainly just mean the motor because I junked most of the cheap hardware from the kit and made my own.

This is the only kit I've owned but I would buy another one next time based on my experience so far.
 
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KevXR

New Member
Nov 18, 2010
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By "2 stroke engine kits" I assume you are limiting to the "inside the frame 2-stroke motors" that resemble motorcycle engines.

It would be nice to see a list of engine components from various vendors of the 2-stroke center mount motors. Motor, CDI, carb, etc.

Today, someone says, "Japanese motorcycle" and everyone thinks of Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, or Kawasaki". Someone says, "Chinese motorcycle" and people think of a generic motorcycle made in China. Some of the motor companies in China have been making engines for Honda and Yamaha for decades. The quality is very high. What is really needed is brand recognition, so Chinese companies will defend their brand name. As people expect level quality from a known Chinese manufacture, for example Lifan, it will be easier to know you are getting what you paid for.

I've read more than a few posts where, "Bigger is better and more powerful" isn't panning out. Why is a 49cc motor outperforming an 80cc motor? The simple answers are quality and/or a motor / carb / CDI / exhaust that are designed as a package. Rather than just bumping up the displacement and dropping the motor in a shipping box.

I have a 200cc engine in my MX motorcycle that puts out 37 hp. (125cc road race engines can get over 40 hp.) Theoretically, a 49cc engine could be made to have enough power to tear apart most bicycle frames and rear wheels. But you'll never get that kind of "HP per 10cc" ratio with a $100 air cooled, non-power valved, no tuned expansion chamber motor. Long and short, quality can trump quantity.

Out in California, a deciding factor may just be the EPA (or CARB) stamp on the muffler.

Still looking around at the kits. I'll probably start with a friction drive kit as I have a nice 2-stroke motor sitting in my garage, but the "center mount 2-stroke kits" for about $150 are very tempting. And from motorcycle riding, I know it is possible to make a 2-stroke very very quiet.
 
wayne z

wayne z

Active Member
Dec 5, 2010
1,743
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louisiana
I just bought and installed my 4th 66cc from BGF

This one came in a smallish box, with a big red bat logo and said "Red Bat Engine co" under the logo.
It's a straight head, not sure what bushing.

I was first suprised when I opened the box ans saw the best packing job ever! There was a freebie nylon zippered tote bag on top.
Under that, there was not one square inch of dead space showing anywhere, and with all those parts, nothing was touching any other part!
The packaging was definitly engineered.

The factory name on the motor sticker is "Nantong Jiali Gasoline Engine factory.
The quality control on this engine was good. I pulled all covers and checked all fasteners and didn't find any that werent tight enough,unlike my other ones.
Came with a nice cast intake manifold, and didn't find any resreictive welds in the exhaust.
No acorn nuts on the head studs is a good sign to me.
The gas tank is larger, and has 6mm studs instead of thost tiny ones I normaly see. Brass petcock.
Also, a 12 page users manual came with it. Very well transnslated, and very complete with illustrated parts brekdown and part numbers for engine and all the kit parts.
There's even photos on the back of an old tiller with a chinagirl engine on it.

I ran it for the first time today, ran good right off. Broke it in hard for bout 1 hr, uphill and back many times. Dropped the needle 1 notch and it's good.
This motor is a smoothie, some vibes when wound out, but WAY better than my last 3 engines.
This engine seems to have a stronger igniton too, It bump starts at way slower speed than my others need to make spark.


This "Red Bat" engine is the best I've seen so far.
 
Dogtown Burner

Dogtown Burner

New Member
Sep 15, 2011
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jasonpadilla said:
What is the best 2 stroke motor?
Click to expand...
a similar question:
why are we here?...
better:
is Ford better than Chevy?
better yet:
what makes Women tick?..

haha that's a great question. one that most of us here on the board are still searching for. as you've seen on this thread, They all look the same, but there are significant internal differences. (after all, they are chinese....ooohh bad. sorry. too easy). anyway, things have really changed politically with the EPA, and the global economy as well. The result being- you never know what you're gonna get until you open the box. the kit will rarely look like the web picture, and it may be a slant, it may be an old straight that was buried on a shelf, discovered, and mailed to you. the supply is dodgy, and rumors of an all out embargo from the EPA has got prices and availability all over the map. From what I'VE read, the Morini is the grand daddy of them all, but best if ya got tons of cash you just HAVE to get rid of. the Raw is the best in the "66cc affordable" category. I'm curios what engines the "Motovelo" guys use. They look solid. and great aftermarket mods. dnut
 
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roadstar05trent

New Member
Sep 10, 2011
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tn
GearNut said:
Break in the engine with 20:1 pre mix ratio. Use a quality pre mix oil made for motorcycles. Opti2, Amsoil, or Maxima brands come to mind.
Do NOT use pre mix oil made for outboard engines they are water cooled and have different requirements than air cooled engines.
Do not be afraid to go over 20 mph for SHORT bursts, like 100 yards or less, once in a great while.
It will actually help break in the piston rings better and faster.

Ride the engine for 15 minutes or so and then let it cool down completely, a 1/2 hour minimum.
I would ride it for 5 minutes and let it cool down. Then 10 minutes and cool down. Then 15 minutes and cool down, ect.
Long trips on an new engine will kill them if you do not let them cool down frequently.
Click to expand...
Well I've been running Yamaha 2 stroke marine oil in both my motors from the start, no problems yet and have a few miles on the one, If the oil is good for a 12 to 15000 dollar motor it should be fine $170 one.
 
GearNut

GearNut

Active Member
Aug 19, 2009
5,104
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San Diego, Kaliforgnia
Outboard engines are water cooled. Compared to an air cooled engine the internal temperatures are lower and there are less hot spots. Air cooled engines require a differently formulated oil that can withstand the higher temperatures and provide the protection needed at the hot spots.
That is why the different oils are on the market. Each type is formulated to match the thermal requirements of the intended engine application.
In the end, you can run whatever oil you wish to. It is certainly better than no oil at all. If you want maximum protection and the longest life possible for your engine, I recommend using an oil that is designed for the needs of the engine you want to use it in.
 
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young grease monkey

New Member
Sep 20, 2011
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roadstar05trent said:
Well I've been running Yamaha 2 stroke marine oil in both my motors from the start, no problems yet and have a few miles on the one, If the oil is good for a 12 to 15000 dollar motor it should be fine $170 one.
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the reason that outboard oil is bad for little air cooled engines is that outboards run very cool, but these run very hot so the oil tins out and doesn't work well at the temps our engines see. always get an oil that says it will work in air cooled, premix engines. sorry, but your last statement made you sound like an idiot. the engines are very different, and need different types of oil for the temps they run at. marine engines have a very limited temp range because they do not have a closed loop water cooling, which will get hotter than a marine because cold water is always getting fed into the cooling jackets, but in a closed loop, such as a dirt bike, the water doesn't get completely cooled by the radiator so the engine will run hotter than a marine. marine oil is the worst to run in an air cooled 2 stroke. do your homework next time.
 
Dogtown Burner

Dogtown Burner

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Sep 15, 2011
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young grease monkey said:
the reason that outboard oil is bad for little air cooled engines is that outboards run very cool, but these run very hot so the oil tins out and doesn't work well at the temps our engines see. always get an oil that says it will work in air cooled, premix engines. sorry, but your last statement made you sound like an idiot. the engines are very different, and need different types of oil for the temps they run at. marine engines have a very limited temp range because they do not have a closed loop water cooling, which will get hotter than a marine because cold water is always getting fed into the cooling jackets, but in a closed loop, such as a dirt bike, the water doesn't get completely cooled by the radiator so the engine will run hotter than a marine. marine oil is the worst to run in an air cooled 2 stroke. do your homework next time.
Click to expand...
Spank! Ohhhh!!!!!! Lol
 
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roadstar05trent

New Member
Sep 10, 2011
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tn
young grease monkey said:
the reason that outboard oil is bad for little air cooled engines is that outboards run very cool, but these run very hot so the oil tins out and doesn't work well at the temps our engines see. always get an oil that says it will work in air cooled, premix engines. sorry, but your last statement made you sound like an idiot. the engines are very different, and need different types of oil for the temps they run at. marine engines have a very limited temp range because they do not have a closed loop water cooling, which will get hotter than a marine because cold water is always getting fed into the cooling jackets, but in a closed loop, such as a dirt bike, the water doesn't get completely cooled by the radiator so the engine will run hotter than a marine. marine oil is the worst to run in an air cooled 2 stroke. do your homework next time.
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No need for home work, I've had many boats, dirt bikes, run what ever oil you want to in yours, If I'm an idiot so be it, Mine is still running on Yamaha oil,
Here's one you might like, I've also run diesel oil (20/50 Rotella) in my Yamaha road star damn thing has 30,000 miles on it still going,,,,, car oil, motorcycle oil it's all about the money
 
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young grease monkey

New Member
Sep 20, 2011
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roadstar05trent said:
No need for home work, I've had many boats, dirt bikes, run what ever oil you want to in yours, If I'm an idiot so be it, Mine is still running on Yamaha oil,
Here's one you might like, I've also run diesel oil (20/50 Rotella) in my Yamaha road star damn thing has 30,000 miles on it still going,,,,, car oil, motorcycle oil it's all about the money
Click to expand...
maybe it is a lot of marketing and trying to make money, but there has to be some truth to it. maybe your way works, but it is not the best. what if i mixed crude oil with my gas? it would work, wouldn't it? some oils don't mix well with gas either. almost anything would work in an oil injected engine, because it doesn't need to atomize with the fuel in the carb. oils are engineered to have a certain viscosity at certain temps. that is what the 10w in a 10w-30 oil is. it is the viscosity at room temp. it is made to be thinner when cold so the engine can start easier, then thicken for better lubrication. maybe it's marketing but those are MEASURABLE NUMBERS. same with outboard oil. it doesn't lubricate as well at higher temps, it is made to do well at operating temp. it thins out at the temps air cooled engines see. as for motorcycle oil, they are not made to last as long in between rebuilds so they can use an oil made for high performance instead of long lasting, and they run at higher rpm so need an oil that doesn't splash up onto the piston and cold shock it, for 4 strokes anyway. you also can void warranties on some machines for using the wrong type of oil, so if nothing else matters to you, that should.
 
Dogtown Burner

Dogtown Burner

New Member
Sep 15, 2011
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Ha ha this is a hilarious pissin' match. I think the monkey has ya beat on this one. I watched that YouTube vid where the kid wanted to see just how long a china girl would last and blew it up. I was shocked at how long it ran with no premix. I'm sure any oil is better than no oil, but those oil company's products are specific for a reason. Not just marketing. And it ain't that hard to buy the correct oil. Anyway, thanks for the great information young monkey, and dnut I'm intrigued by the elusive , yet-to-be-found-by-me Opti-2.
 
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roadstar05trent

New Member
Sep 10, 2011
13
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tn
Dogtown Burner said:
Ha ha this is a hilarious pissin' match. I think the monkey has ya beat on this one. I watched that YouTube vid where the kid wanted to see just how long a china girl would last and blew it up. I was shocked at how long it ran with no premix. I'm sure any oil is better than no oil, but those oil company's products are specific for a reason. Not just marketing. And it ain't that hard to buy the correct oil. Anyway, thanks for the great information young monkey, and dnut I'm intrigued by the elusive , yet-to-be-found-by-me Opti-2.
Click to expand...
no pissing match for me, I just stated what I ran in my and the monkey jumped on me, I'm still going to run what I've been running, I've ran my two bikes at the rod run in Gatlinburg Tn were the temps were in the 90's at idle for miles, They have not let me down yet, Like i said everyone can run whatever oil they want to I run the 10 a quart Yamalube, lol
 
linnix13

linnix13

Member
Oct 7, 2009
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ive run regular 10w-30 in my motors before, smokes! smells but ive never had an issue, also im currently running outboard oil, only because it was on sale, and i got a litter of it, these little engines will run on almost anything! its pretty amazing really
 
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young grease monkey

New Member
Sep 20, 2011
362
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Chicago
the reason 10w-30 oil smokes is that it has a high flash point, and its not a freaking 2 stroke oil! these engines don't need really fancy oil, but for god's sake! don't use car motor oil!
 
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