3 speed Elgin Velocipede 1934

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silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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Too late on the copper pot, I'm afraid. It is done with oatmeal and grits. Soon it will have seen the light of a new day, a new purpose in life. On to better and brighter things.

Villiers motors are not at all common in this country, but in Britain it is a name as familiar as Brigs & Straton is here in the states. The midget is a sweet engine.

By the way, I thought that it was the German company of Fitchel & Sachs that came up with the coaster brake. So who was first I wonder.
SB
 
Intrepid Wheelwoman

Intrepid Wheelwoman

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silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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northeastern Minnesota
Gbrebes said:
Hey Silverbear,

That hand crank is super cool, I love it! Have you got the motor to start that way? I am wondering how fast it must be spun, and once the engine starts firing, how do you disengage the crank? Do you just pull if off at the right time when you here the motor catch? I always wondered how this was done on antique cars.

Gilbert
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silverbear said:
This would work nicely... it is called a breaker bar ratchet adapter and fits between the breaker bar and the socket. Perfect, if I had one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SNAP-ON-TOO...27184744?pt=US_Hand_Tools&hash=item1e93b5cf68

I'll be watching for a deal on one of these, I think. Or am I missing something and this would not work... not "freewheel" when the engine engaged?
SB
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I've been following some ebay auctions to get an idea of what one of these is likely to cost. I can see than none of them are cheap. They also vary in what size the drive is. In 3/8" you can figure in the range of $25.00 or so. Double that for 1/2" and double it again for 3/4". For my purposes 3/8" would work in terms of how strong it would need to be. This is not to break loose a crusty and rusted nut, but to turn over a small engine.

It might also be that a pawn shop (they always have a lot of mechanics tools and bins of sockets and such)... might run across a deal on one there. Providing you already have a brace and donor socket then I guess $25.00 is reasonable for a vintage engine hand crank...

...providing it doesn't land you in the emergency room with a broken wrist. I've been thinking about that and I can picture the socket getting kind of "stuck" on the flywheel nut, especially if the hand crank was cocked to the side a bit. There's nothing to keep it aligned other than paying attention to what you're doing. I've already decided to use a socket a wee bit too big... just a little big. A flywheel nut is big enough and the resistance to turning is small enough that I don't think it would tend to round the nut.

I also think that the lower the compression and displacement of the engine the less danger there is of hurting yourself. I don't think it would be something I would do with a 200cc or bigger engine, especially if it had high compression. My Villiars midget is 98CC's and is low revving meant to run a reel lawn mower. I'm going to pursue this, in other words. I suspect the most dangerous aspect to this enterprise is lack of attention. My old hands and wrists have served me well through seven decades and they are still strong and in good working order. No real arthritis yet, but I want to keep them pain free and in working order. Having a sore throttle hand would dampen riding fun, for sure.

I'll let you know when I've found my breaker bar socket adapter.
SB
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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northeastern Minnesota
http://handcrank.wythoff.net/page/3

This version of an early automotive hand crank starter does the same thing as the ratchet adapter for a breaker bar... it freewheels and prevents the possibility of kickback.

I'm not worried about kickback, but more about the socket getting "stuck" on the flywheel nut. That's why I was thinking to use a slightly too big socket. This is probably more worry than is merited for a little putt putt motor on a bicycle. Still, caution is good.
SB
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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I discovered this kind of brace just today and my foggy memory suggests I had one of these onceupona. It is a ratcheting brace drill... and unless I am mistaken in how it works this should be perfect for a hand crank small engine starter (not counting some fiddling with where the bit fits into the brace... but that can be overcome). With slight variations there are a lot of these listed on ebay. No chance of running out anytime soon and the prices are very reasonable considering you are getting both the brace and the equivalent of a breaker bar ratchet adapter built into the brace... for a lot less money. Less money, I like. I'll bid on one later in the day, have it in a week or so and can do some fooling around to see how it will work.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331364003494?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

It may be the goldilocks tool I was looking for all along... the one that is "just right"!

This was in the nick of time as I was about to spring for a breaker bar ratchet adapter, none of which are cheap.
SB
 
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C

curtisfox

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minesota
There is also a speed wrench used for fast driving bolts that would work,but this will be the Cadilac of the choice................Curt
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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I made an offer on an ebay auction which was accepted at $13.00 for the ratchet brace and another $10.00 for shipping. It is due to arrive at my door this coming Thursday, November 6, 2014. The seller says the ratchet mechanism is gummy slow since it probably needs to be cleaned and given new grease. It was made between 1885 and 1912, being a Millers Falls #83. No wonder it could use some new grease.

I could have gotten another for less money, but I'm happy because I got what I wanted. If you skim the auctions you'll see references to "8" or "10" or "12" which refers to the sweep of the center part as you turn the brace... the diameter of that sweep. This one is 8 inches which means that it is smaller. A bigger sweep would give more leverage, but in my use I won't need much leverage as the engine is easy to turn over.

There are also references to a brace being "14" or "15" or even larger which refers to the overall length of the brace end to end.

The size of this one will make it easier to tuck in against the seat post while in storage. Once I have it I can figure out how to chuck a 1/2" socket drive extension... a shorty so that the socket to fit the flywheel nut can be fit on. I think this is going to work nicely!
SB
 

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silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
What you see below is called a brace socket adapter and is roughly what I need to make so that I can affix the appropriate socket into the chuck. You can see by the tapered square end of the shaft that a brace chuck is different than just about any other kind of drill chuck.

The one below is made by Stanley and the seller wants $25.00+ for it. Ouch. And it is for a 3/8" socket. Mine is 1/2" and I have an extension about six inches long which has the fitting which goes into a socket on both ends. Not sure what it was for, but I've got one. With the shaft being 1/2" I should be able to grind one end into a tapered square like the end of the stanley socket adapter for a discount of $25.00. And that should do it. The brace comes on Thursday. In the meantime I'll grind and file away on my piece so that it is ready to try out as an engine hand crank.
SB
 

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curtisfox

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WOW! there is a lot of drill bits with that taper on them. You should be able to still buy them used for log home type work. Maybe get one from neighbor to copy the taper....................Curt
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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Curtis, you have read the short story of me little mind. I intend to ask my neighbor if he has one for me to borrow as a model. I used to have a bunch of those along with more serious log building tools, but that was then and this is now. I looked, but can't find one, probably gave them away. Some years back when I expected to die of guillane barre syndrome (like polio) I did a pretty thorough give away and a whole lot went. Now I can't remember what I have or where it is. And as me little brain keeps shriveling up it is only going to get worse. Sigh.

I'll find one or have my brother send me one from his stuff. And there's always ebay. Or look at the photo and wing it.
SB
 
C

curtisfox

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Don't have to ask your brother i have some that will never get used will send you one if your neighbor don't have one...............Curt
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
Curt,
You are kind, sir. I'm going to give another look through stuff tomorrow. Hard to believe I don't have even one. If you sent me one then I'd immediately find three while looking for something else. No hurry. The junk shop in Tower might have one, too. And it isn't like I'll be trying to start the motor indoors on a workbench without a gas tank. You know how it is; you get an idea and then have to see if it is going to work. I may look like an adult, but don't be fooled by the clever disguise... there's an impatient little kid inside who wants to know if it's going to work NOW. Ha! Patience, old bear.

hsvmick,
Glad you like the old girl. (Some bikes are boys, some are girls. This one's a girl. The Indian Hiawatha tri-car is a girl, too, as the lines are too curvy and nice for a boy bike. Whereas the American flyer with the canoe sidecar is a boy bike. If that makes any sense.) Yeah, no problem figuring out which ride is mine in the parking lot. Only kid on my block with one of those!
SB
 
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