1911 Indian
- Thread starter cobrafreak
- Start date
cobrafreak
New Member
New Mod,
I had the pleasure of going to the West Coast Whizzer Delta Ride on Saturday. I met some really nice people, including Sportscarpet and Stinkybird of Sportsman Flyer. The Whizzer people have a 90 mile ride that they do around the Sacramento Delta islands and channels and a swap meet on Sunday. Bad news for me, my new rear hub had a bearing failure resulting in a trailer ride after 1/3rd of the ride. Every single ball bearing in the sealed cartridge turned to powder. No hub damage. Just my pride a little. It was a little embarrassing breaking down after doing such a nice job for the first third of the ride. Oh well. There were about 8 Whizzers that conked out for various reasons. Everybody gets some love
I suspect the bearing failed from inadequate lube from the factory. I took the other bearing apart and it was dry and failing also but didn't get to the point of disintegration. Just a fluke. Sportscarpet has many miles on his identical hub without a problem. I am going to go to Motion Industries tomorrow morning and get some new bearings. I did some research into bearing load properties and got some numbers. My old Grubee hub ran with 5200z bearings that had a Radial Dynamic load rating of 7150 (N) with it's double row bearing. My new hub uses single row 6001z bearings with a Radial Dynamic load rating of 5100 (N) . I also found out that there is a double row bearing that will fit my current hub but it is not sealed or shielded, so I shouldn't use it. I modified my hub to take additional single row sealed bearings. Three on the chain side and two on the pedal side. This will increase the durability five fold. If you increase the number of bearings you also multiply the Dynamic load rating by the number of bearings. So it will last a long time. There is no such thing as over engineering
I had the pleasure of going to the West Coast Whizzer Delta Ride on Saturday. I met some really nice people, including Sportscarpet and Stinkybird of Sportsman Flyer. The Whizzer people have a 90 mile ride that they do around the Sacramento Delta islands and channels and a swap meet on Sunday. Bad news for me, my new rear hub had a bearing failure resulting in a trailer ride after 1/3rd of the ride. Every single ball bearing in the sealed cartridge turned to powder. No hub damage. Just my pride a little. It was a little embarrassing breaking down after doing such a nice job for the first third of the ride. Oh well. There were about 8 Whizzers that conked out for various reasons. Everybody gets some love
I suspect the bearing failed from inadequate lube from the factory. I took the other bearing apart and it was dry and failing also but didn't get to the point of disintegration. Just a fluke. Sportscarpet has many miles on his identical hub without a problem. I am going to go to Motion Industries tomorrow morning and get some new bearings. I did some research into bearing load properties and got some numbers. My old Grubee hub ran with 5200z bearings that had a Radial Dynamic load rating of 7150 (N) with it's double row bearing. My new hub uses single row 6001z bearings with a Radial Dynamic load rating of 5100 (N) . I also found out that there is a double row bearing that will fit my current hub but it is not sealed or shielded, so I shouldn't use it. I modified my hub to take additional single row sealed bearings. Three on the chain side and two on the pedal side. This will increase the durability five fold. If you increase the number of bearings you also multiply the Dynamic load rating by the number of bearings. So it will last a long time. There is no such thing as over engineering 
brett7777
New Member
hey nice write up CF.
btw what's up with those names? 'Stinkybird'? And Pat has become someone's pet, or been relegated to the carpet?
sportscarpat
Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Sportscarpet and stinkybird? That's too funny. Especially "Stinkybird". I'll be sure to let Rich know his new forum name! The Whizz-in was a great event. While John was up and running his bike was very fast. Still, a few bikes faster. The OHV Whizzers with three speed gear boxes ruled the day. John lost a wheel bearing and Rich had either carb or ignition troubles. Me? I was the slowest of the three of us, but was back in camp with a cold beer in my hand long before they showed up!
cobrafreak
New Member
I have learned long ago to give up trying to decipher peoples screen names. I personally think a screen name should be given to you such as a nickname. My Brother called me a cobrafreak because i love Shelby Cobras and have a replica of one,and it stuck.
cobrafreak
New Member
Pat, I thought you said Rich's screen name was Stinkybird. Itchybird, Twitchybird? I can't remember all these damn names!
Allen_Wrench
Resident Mad Scientist
Pat, I thought you said Rich's screen name was Stinkybird. Itchybird, Twitchybird? I can't remember all these damn names!
You think these are bad? You should hear what some people call me down at work.
Jumpa
New Member
Hey Cobra not that it matters but this is your "429"th post whats the engine size on the Cobra?Pat, I thought you said Rich's screen name was Stinkybird. Itchybird, Twitchybird? I can't remember all these damn names!
WAIT I was Dupped there all 429
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cobrafreak
New Member
Hey Cobra not that it matters but this is your "429"th post whats the engine size on the Cobra?
It's a 6.5hp clone engine at 196cc's. The new Predator engine out now that HF replaced the clone with is 212cc's, but it has some internal differences that won't allow some of the speed parts to fit. I would stick with a true clone for the use of speed parts.
Yes, the Cobra is a Factory Five Racing Mk1.
cobrafreak
New Member
Twitchybird LOL CF you crack me up.
hey I know that you will be goin for red wheels for the authentic look, but for me personally those chrome rims look mighty fine, has got me thinkin bout chrome rims again
The chrome has grown on me so I'm going to keep them chrome. Not authentic but it is going to be easy to maintain, not that I ever clean the bike ever
cobrafreak
New Member
OK, my old Grubee China Girl motorbike axle had 2- 5200z bearings for a total Radial Dynamic load rating of 14,150 Newtons. My new Sportsman Flyer hub has 2-6001z bearings for a total Radial Dynamic load rating of 10,200. Probably ok, but if you want to up the load bearing rating you need to add bearings. Now I have 5-6001z bearings, 3 on the chain drive side and 2 on the pedal side, for a total of 25,500 Newtons. I doubt this set up will ever fail. Engineering wins! The Indian is a heavy bike at 160lbs and combined with the fact that the bike is a hard tail with no rear suspension I need as tough a setup as possible due to me pushing it's engineered boundaries.
Old configuration:
New configuration:
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I hadn't looked in on this thread for ahwile, now I know why brett777 was calling me names!
a few random thoughts after catching up on this thread:
1. John saved me a seat in the rescue truck -thanks John! Sad but true, my blue bike actually let me down on the Whizzin. It was rolling like a rock star in the morning, fast and free. Then choked on me. Not once, but twice! oh the shame... It was still a great ride, and we'll be back in the spring for the next one.
2. 3 cross, 4 cross, etc... I find that the magic recipe is 3 cross on the high flange hubs. I've seen 4 cross on these hubs, but the spokes overlap the hub flange too much. 3 cross is the ticket.
3. The death of a bearing on John's hub. I've built, and re-built quite a number of these works wheels and Pat's hubs. To date, I have not seen a single bearing failure. The hubs on my blue bike are early, they actually have loose balls and cones. The sealed bearing hubs should have a spacer inside as a spreader. I didn't know you could press in additional bearings, don't forget the spreader...
a few random thoughts after catching up on this thread:
1. John saved me a seat in the rescue truck -thanks John! Sad but true, my blue bike actually let me down on the Whizzin. It was rolling like a rock star in the morning, fast and free. Then choked on me. Not once, but twice! oh the shame... It was still a great ride, and we'll be back in the spring for the next one.
2. 3 cross, 4 cross, etc... I find that the magic recipe is 3 cross on the high flange hubs. I've seen 4 cross on these hubs, but the spokes overlap the hub flange too much. 3 cross is the ticket.
3. The death of a bearing on John's hub. I've built, and re-built quite a number of these works wheels and Pat's hubs. To date, I have not seen a single bearing failure. The hubs on my blue bike are early, they actually have loose balls and cones. The sealed bearing hubs should have a spacer inside as a spreader. I didn't know you could press in additional bearings, don't forget the spreader...
cobrafreak
New Member
Hi Itchybird (Rich), this isn't the only time my bearings failed. I had my old rear hub bearings fail also a while ago on the Indian. I think it is a combination of 8 hp vs 2 hp the original moped or motor bicycle engine had, the lack of rear suspension vs a moped which does have a rear suspension which cause constant pounding on the wheels or at least the ones I've seen have, the weight of my bike which is heavier than a moped and my 230 lb frame. Maybe it was a little overkill putting five in, but having this happen to me twice in one lifetime is quite enough. I actually thought about putting a zerk fitting into the center of the spindle until I remembered that I have a brake in there which wouldn't react well to the grease bath
, So everything is fine. I took her out for a test spin and it works fabulous. I love the hub I have from Sportsman Flyer. I still believe it is the best hub for our application. I just have a habit of breaking stuff and having to fix them, which is why I know how to use tools really well, Lol .sportscarpat
Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Not to brag or anything, but my bike kicked out the 90 mile ride no problem. Rich and John were both a bit faster, but I was still back in camp drinking a cold one when they showed up! No worries, I saved them each a beer!
The_Aleman
Active Member
Don't mean to derail the thread with an offtopic post, but no real Cobras came with the 429.
They came with 260, 289 and 427s that I know of.
The 429 is based on the same engine as 460 - the "385 series", whereas the Ford 427 is an "FE". The 352, 390, 427, and 428 are some examples of FEs. The 429 weighs roughly 100lbs more than a 427 or 428 being a completely different engine.
Sorry for the off-topic, Cobrafreak, I'm a gearhead too
They came with 260, 289 and 427s that I know of.
The 429 is based on the same engine as 460 - the "385 series", whereas the Ford 427 is an "FE". The 352, 390, 427, and 428 are some examples of FEs. The 429 weighs roughly 100lbs more than a 427 or 428 being a completely different engine.
Sorry for the off-topic, Cobrafreak, I'm a gearhead too
Hey Cobra not that it matters but this is your "429"th post whats the engine size on the Cobra?
