100:1 Mix

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Retmachinist, Jul 24, 2009.

  1. chrisme

    chrisme New Member

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    Oil technology has come a very long way. In the past when there wasn't really 2-stroke oil, and it was just 30w oil mixed with gas. You had to run 16:1 because it wasn't very efficient.
    But that there's specially formulated oil designed to run 100:1, why not run it?!
    If it's designed to work, no reason it won't. As long as your carb is tuned right.

    On the topic of tuning your carb, running less oil puts more importance on having the bike tuned properly. When running 30:1 if the a/f ratio is too lean, there's enough excessive oil to keep from seizing up the engine.
    But when running 100:1, if you're running too lean an a/f ratio the motor will not get sufficient lubrication and seize up.

    IMO, people seizing engines running this oil are doing something else wrong. It's not the oil.

    When I get my new motor I'm going to start with a non-synthetic oil to break in the rings. And I'll be running a little oil rich so I can get the carb tuned properly. Then I'll reduce the oil, and keep fine tuning the carb for the new oil mixture. Starting a new build at 100:1 is probably a bad idea, just because they need to be tuned a bit to work. If you're running lean out of the box, that's not good with 100:1!!
     
    #561 chrisme, May 26, 2011
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  2. sketchman

    sketchman New Member

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    Can I get that in writing with the agreement to buy my blown motor if it does? :)

    Oh, and barelyawake. I didn't mean a tighter fit. I meant less tolerance for inconsistencies in fit and finish. Less jaggies to rub together, less things out of round, etc. Just better built. For instance, I watched a video where this guy purposely destroyed a weed whacker engine with straight gas. It ran WOT for well over 2 minutes IIRC before it seized, and that was sitting still so no air flowing over it like these engines get. I wonder how long a China would last doing that.
     
  3. Fulltimer

    Fulltimer New Member

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    Hmmm, scratch off DAX as a dealer for my next 4 stroke motor. I have a 2 stroker now and I do run Opti at 100:1 mix. Where are the "!" marks Dax?

    Terry
     
  4. GEJoe

    GEJoe New Member

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    I bought a GTR-50 from Dax and thought I would try Opti-2. Mistake. Mixed it according to instructions and the engine heated up and seized up. Looked in the exhaust port and cylinder is scored. Fortunately, Duane at Dax is forgiving of my folly and offered to sell me a new cylinder and rings at cost. I used Opti-2 one time on my Golden Eagle Komatsu engine with no problem, so it seems there are just some 2 strokes that are not compatible with Opti-2.
     
  5. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Active Member

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    Hi sketchman and GEJoe
    You have to read what I said and the side of the box.

    The double your warranty program is for Opti-4 oil which is based
    on the same Eutectic anti-wear additive that Opti-2 uses.
    You can read about it here.
    Opti-4

     
    #565 MotorBicycleRacing, May 26, 2011
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  6. thatsdax

    thatsdax Member

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    ok guys.... and gals.. If any.. Here is my last post on this subject. Since it seems I have offended some, here is the result of even more research into the subject of mix ratios, opti2 and any 2 stroke oil for the matter. There is a problem with going to Opti2 mix 100:1 and I found the problem. And it is a serious problem. Since I have never run such lean oil mixtures, I had not considered this as the problem. And here it is.. The problem going to Opti2 100:1 is the 100:1 ratio and not the Opti2. What I am saying is.. The problem is not the Opti 2 lube. The problem is going to 100:1. After talking with veteran users 20 years or more of selling and using Opti2, the problem is not the Opti2 oil but going to 100:1. All veterans using Opti2 are typically using 80:1 and not 100:1.. And How are they doing this? Well.. They worked their way to 80:1. The did not change from 32:1 then jumped straight to Opti2 100:1 or 80:1. The worked there way to it. If you are using 32:1 Belray Valvoline Golden Spec , or any others, and then you jump to Opti2 80 or 100:1, you will seize your motor. You will have a melt down. And.. Here is the reason. Your displacement of oil per fuel changed so much, you instantly went into a lean condition.. And.. Pow !! Seizure. What I found from calling Opti 2 and Paul at Opti2 gave me his users and Distributors their numbers and I called and asked how they do go to such lean mix ratios . And this is what they told me.. You work your way towards it doing plug chops all the way. You start at 40:1 and then 50:1 and so on doing plug chops all the way and re jetting all the way until you get to 80:1. This makes sense. I was also informed by Dave at Trail sports a seller of over 20 years and users in his race bikes that Chain Saws and weed eaters come so richly jetting from the factory because of warranty issues they jet them so super rich, that in these devices , they typically can go to 80:1 with no jet change at all. So.. I hope my research has helped 2 stroke lovers. Opti2 is indeed a superior oil product from what I can tell. But.. When it comes to Jumping into the 100:1 mix ratio club, it will require some knowledge, some work, and some Patience. For those of you who made the jump with no problems, consider yourself lucky that your engine was running super rich like the chain saws and weed eaters.. Lucky is right !! But for all the high performance 2 stroke engines out there.. Beware.. All this research has helped me. Enjoy the ride..
     
    #566 thatsdax, May 26, 2011
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  7. Mike B

    Mike B New Member

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    Yeah, that's probably why they now mix at 70:1 with the packets. Too many calls from people with fried motors.
     
  8. sketchman

    sketchman New Member

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    #568 sketchman, May 26, 2011
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  9. bairdco

    bairdco a guy who makes cool bikes

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    wow, it really sucks then how wrong i've been for over 2 years now. i hope my 10,000 mile, 2.5 year old motor doesn't seize up from running 100:1 that first day so long ago.

    and those 7 or 8 other bikes i've built that are still on the road, running perfect, with anywhere from 2 years to 2 months riding time, i guess they're just riding on borrowed time, too. i better make some calls and tell them i'm sorry...

    and when i talked to Brad at opti before i even ran it, he musta been misinformed about his own product when he told me that it's designed to be run at 100:1 from day one, to it's last day. i guess his dealers don't trust him either, if they aren't running it at specs.

    duane, you sure are doing a lot of research into something you say you'll never use. you should just stick to your guns, keep your uninformed, non-experienced opinions about opti-2 to yourself, and let the multitudes of people who actually use it, benefit from it, and are totally happy with it discuss it.

    or, you could just break down (no pun intended) and try it. i'm sure you've got an extra 2 stroker you could mount up and do some empirical testing on. then you wouldn't have to rely on heresay, outdated thinking, rumors, fears, and unknowledgable opinions about it.

    the best thing about motorized bikes, is you can always back-pedal...:)
     
  10. thatsdax

    thatsdax Member

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    Going from 32:1 to 100:1 and not doing anything other on a high performance 2 strokeis a rookie mistake. But.. Do not take my word for it. I never said I would never use Opti. I said I would never go 100:1. Call Paul at Opti 800-332-5851. He is the Opti Expert. Thanks
     
    #570 thatsdax, May 26, 2011
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  11. sketchman

    sketchman New Member

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    Now there's an idea. A real test. How's this? Somebody that's been running the stuff pull a cylinder and snap some shots? Whoever will do it, I will send you a brand new base and head gasket free of charge as I ordered a set and won't be using them. Going to a different engine, but I'd donate it and mail it for free to whoever will do it so there's no excuse not to. Anybody?
     
  12. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    Here we are beating this dead horse again..........

    I say people will believe what they want too and do everything under the sun to justify their opinions or "facts" that is fine with me, I know what I have done and it works great for me and all the others here that are running 80:1 and mainly 100:1 know that they've had good success as well and it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks about it..........

    As to all that was said about switching from another oil at say 40:1 over to Opti 2 @ 80 or 100:1 I can tell you from personal experience that all....and I mean ALL........... of my engines ran Fuel/oil Rich on the Opti 2 higher fuel to oil ratio, and if I remember right yes the oil does lube things of coarse but it is actually the fuel that keeps the engine cool and not the oil, oil retains heat much longer than gasoline so the more oil in the engine I would think the more retained heat...... just enough oil to prevent metal to metal gaulding is all that is needed in any engine.

    When I switched to Opti 2 I had to DECREASE my jet size to stop the increased amount of too rich condition 4 stroking my engine did, and my plug ran black until I reduced the jet size.

    I have pulled the jug off my engines several times to do port work or just to change gaskets and the engine is always loaded up real nice with the Opti 2, very oily and slick throughout.

    Personally I dont believe in that slowly working your way up to 80 or 100:1 because from my experience the engines start 4 stroking and running richer on the Opti 2 mix as the ratio is increased too 80:1 or 100:1.

    Those of us who like it will always run it just like we like it and continue to have the same great success as we have always had..............If someone wants to run a lesser quality oil @ 32:1 or 40:1 that is fine and I'm sure they will have the same great success with theirs too (maybe)...., difference is with Opti 2 we dont smell like oil, we dont see oil behind us and our engines stay cleaner, it's all about preference in my opinion, conventional oil has a long proven track record and over quite a few years now so does the synthetics and synthetic blends.

    It's kinda fuuny reading all this on this thread.....I also have NITRO RC trucks and a buggy and if you go to rcuniverse.com you will see this same kinda debate over full synthetic oil or synthetic blend or some will not run anything accept straight good ole degummed castor oil, castor is superior in high heat lean conditions but synthetic runs cleaner and is way less messy.........so.......... ( which oil and how much is best debate will never end )

    I say if it works for you then do it, but dont get all humped up and start slinging mud at people who do things different than you do especially when it is proven that they have just as good of success or better than you do with your way of doing things, neither person is wrong for doing what they do if they are both getting the same results in the end. RIGHT.....!

    Peace
     
    #572 mapbike, May 26, 2011
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  13. Mike B

    Mike B New Member

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    Hey, I'm glad this thread is here.

    I'm going to be extra careful with my Cag 49cc.
     
  14. thatsdax

    thatsdax Member

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    Again.. If your Jets are so rich, no re jetting may not be needed. If you are using a high performance 2 stroke, you will have to work your way towards this leaner mix ratio and it will require work. It is intrinsic. Since a High performance 2 stroke is typically Spot on Jetting. Again.. Intrinsic. This is true with any 2 stroke mix ratio that if you start to remove the oil, you will need to fatten the jet. It is a displacement function and again..Intrinsic. If you have any problems with Opti2 and going to 100:1 mix, the problem is not the oil but is jetting. You can call Paul at Opti for more Info. The posts in here by me are not intended to anger or insult anyone. I am learning a lot from all this. If you are able to switch to 100:1 mix and not change jetting, then you are a lucky. And you need to know this.. Call Paul at Opti. Also.. Paul can give you contact info on racers using Opti 2 and they too can explain to you all that are interested on what has to be done when going opti2 100:1. Here it is again.. Paul at Opti 1-800-332-5851 . Since it is a 1-800 number there is not excuse to continue any arguments on doing this 100:1 mix endeavor. Just call the 800 number. I asked Paul at Opti and he said he would welcome any calls about this thread as I informed him of what the discussion is all about. . He said it was fine to call him. I have no more help to offer.
     
    #574 thatsdax, May 26, 2011
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  15. sketchman

    sketchman New Member

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    Based on what you know now, would you still say this if a customer started out with Opti at 100:1 since the problem seems to be "switching" to it after running more oil up to a point?
     
  16. Mike B

    Mike B New Member

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    I'll do the pic thing and you don't need to send me any gaskets.

    I planned to remove the head after the first 1.25 gallons anyway.

    I have a bit of oil seepage from the exhaust port now. Not bad, just enough to pick up dust on the lower cylinder fins. I am running 25:1 Husqvarna oil.

    When the break in gallon and a quarter is gone, I will remove the head and take a pic. Then I will run a gallon of the opti 2 at 1 packet / gallon and do it again.

    Not taking the cylinder off, too much work.
     
  17. mapbike

    mapbike Active Member

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    No offense sir but No help offered at this point in my opinion, just your opinions that we who run the oil have alreday proven not to be the case..........

    The Opti 2 80:1 mix require me too REDUCE THE SIZE OF MY JETS ( make them smaller) not increase the size.....my engine ran way to rich until I did and the plug ran jet black....and oily looking until I soldered and redrilled my jets, had to do this on ALL of my engines when I went to the 80:1 Opti 2 mix.

    Why is it that the word of so many that have and is proving daily what 80:1 or 100:1 Opti 2does in these China Girls has to be treated as bunk......

    I could care less what this Paul guy says.......if he said the sky wasn't blue would we believe him....?

    This entire conversation has become a complete waste of time and I'm done with it, no hard feelings toward anyone or nothing like that......I just cant for the life of me figure out this huge anount of skepticism over something that has already been proven over & over.

    mapbike is over & out on this one........wow! this has been freaking crazy!

    peace
     
    #577 mapbike, May 26, 2011
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  18. sketchman

    sketchman New Member

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    No offense to anyone, but opinions and personal experience(without empirical data) is just not enough to sell me on anything. I'm a staunch skeptic till something is proved thoroughly. Lots of people run their choice brand of "magic in a bottle" and have for years and seriously believe that it is the reason their engine has lasted so long and run so well. I'm perfectly ready to believe it too, if it can be proved.

    Interlube is claiming some weird stuff(compared to what we are used to). I don't think the skepticism is all that unwarranted, but I'm also ready to go with it and will start my new engine out on it at 100:1, beating on it the whole time. If it lasts it'll be worth it just for the oil savings. :) If not, I'll tear it down and see what's happened.
     
  19. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Active Member

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    Please Do NOT call Paul with your questions about Opti- 2.

    Please ask all your questions here in this thread and read the
    Interlube website.


    Paul at Interlube has generously sponsored the Willow Springs race
    and just about all the 2 and 4 stroke racers will be getting some oil
    from the case that they sent me.

    Interlube has been in business for 35 years and sold enough oil for
    400 million gallons of gas!
    They mainly sell to the lawnmower and small engine equipment industry.
     
  20. sketchman

    sketchman New Member

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    The people who make STP engine treatment have been in business for a long time too and have sold lots and lots and lots of it. People swear by it. Claim it saved their engine. Claim it has worked for years in their engine and far surpasses the invention of sliced cheese in every way, etc, etc, etc,.

    Thing is, I know of an engineer who did a chemical analysis on the stuff, and let's just say the results gave one whale of a testament to the durability of engines in general rather than to the "benefits" of using STP in them.

    "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." And, no, a companies own website explaining why their product is great isn't proof, IMHO.

    I look forward to seeing Mike's pics, and my own engine internals after a while.
     

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