Art Fish Mobile Motor Bike prior Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

Page 3 of this thread and its been running and took out for a spin, but needs more gearing down... anyway with 6 pulleys 3 belts 2 jackshafts.

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The motor bike has not been completed yet as mostly the rear drive hub I am getting to make shims to grab the spokes for a washing machine pulley to mount to. It was all OK till I had tightened down clamps and that distorted the pulley.

When that is out of the way and finished and it goes riding successfully, I am to see if I can make with or without welding more to the frame or the attached side car modification to get it complete with side car.

Truly it is not of the utmost important to make it actually a side car for passenger, but if I can I will try.

The eventual result is to make it a kind of mutant motor bike vehicle with added art; wire, paper mache, paint, lights ect.

My need is to be able to dissemble it enough to transport in small enough pieces. I am looking at clamping to the frame and additionally what I have already welded to the frame for engine mount. If need be I will have more weld to the frame to make it a bolt together side car to the motor bike frame.

Adding more info to post by Measure Twice

***** I some how missed seeing where there are photos of CAM NZ's muffler on the Villiers engine and maybe mixed up who ask who the question of how loud the muffler is

.... I finally looked back at post #2 of CAM NZ's - Villiers Boardtrack Racer an now understand (that is not a muffler ...hah hah hah! ....

but here is some information on my current restoration of Briggs 5S already was running from previous restoration minus cut valves an seats and an 80's Era Briggs MB ******

As a misunderstanding as a reply to Harry76 on CAM NZ's post #27 - Villiers Boardtrack Racer and other info to add to my own post:

http://motorbicycling.com/f36/villiers-boardtrack-racer-30023-new-post.html

I have your answer here on my yet only post I started of my own.

Yep the Briggs tube muffler is very loud!

I wrote what I think is too much of an answer to your question to rightfully place it on your post. I figured I would put it on my post for you and others to see if interested.

I think maybe your mistaken with the green painted gen set motor that is painted green. That is not mine.

I don't think there is even a muffler, just a pipe leading out of the aircraft. I mean with the B17 defending itself with ½ inch shells of a machine gun just next to the gen set out the back of the fuselage, did it really matter about the noise?

If you really mean the tube muffler on the black painted Briggs 5S that is standard with the engine. That is the engine I own. and yes they are damn they are noisy!

The older Briggs 5S I am not sure what application I will have for it. It is just being restored, I got the valves and seats cut and put in new points. Degreased it, but am not sure if I will repaint it. I already put it together and have oil in it, just not tried it running yet.

Only I have for the MB with Briggs 80 era 3hp to do off-roading, a required spark arrestor muffler from Briggs, I have not tried that yet. It is the stubby oval shaped thing that also includes a deflector plate that can be installed with the three small sheet metal screws that is included with it. 391912 part number is the one I have I think. I don’t have a picture of it but this but on page 68 from online does at

http://pw1.netcom.com/~cparsons/Spark Arrestors.pdf

There are also other interesting spark arrestor mufflers shown at the site, an noting the BOMBARDIER brand, I think maybe I should at some point make a ski for attachment to the front wheel and a half track tread on the rear wheel in his memory.

The website I found besides going straight to Briggs is all about the small engine cars that go on the rail road tracks to do work fixing and inspecting. Somehow there is a group that uses them, on tracks with permission to do it as a hobby. So maybe up to 35hp they have?

A link for pictures where they did what they call the last snow run. I looked at it as it is in California where I reside. I have been to the area up my Mt. Shasta but not during cold weather.

Back when I was residing in New York City I rode that Kawasaki 350 road bike in the winter and the plugs always had a time getting wet at start. We had +8 degrees fareheight which was cold enough I had to saw apart the case on a security light that used a 5 watt carbon resistor and bi-metalic strip to do a delay for cloud cover during the day time. It was to protect the incandesent bulb burning out prematurly. I just bent the strip a little and had it recalibrated.

I guess this rail road small car group uses all 4 strokes I hope anyway, cuase to be stuck out there in the snow, brrrr!

http://pw1.netcom.com/~dparsons/McCloud4.html

In any case, I have a video of the 80’s era 3hp Briggs running with that muffler and right close surrounding it the always very leaky vented cap on the gas tank used with the vacujet carb. The tank was shaped with a sounded cut out to accommodate that tube muffler to be a hair within touching the tank.

At one point where the throttle on the engine was quickly returning to Idle, I got to see in the video a capture of a blue flame shaped like a cone, it was pointing out the muffler along with a back fire bang to boot!

Yet to decide where I will post that video?

Note that was the muffler used on the 80’s era Briggs, but I got the engine without the carb and just used it till I got a bowl carb that Briggs makes for cheap. This way I also get a fuel tank that even though still needs venting, is not heated by the muffler so that boil off of gas fumes are a danger.

All I need is to have an unexpected cook out starting while I am off-roading. You know what Smokey the Bear says. My intent is to get a State Sticker for ATV for the off road Motor Bike.

I actually made brackets to hold a Briggs lawn mower gravity feed tank to use with the Briggs bowl carb. The brackets went on flat sheet metal that I welded on to the JC Penny 50’s bike frame, they were really meant to beef up the frame and distribute some of the engine weight to the top bars and not have it all on the lower one only.

I had about 5 months at a shop where I used the TIG, since I do not own a welder. An engine mounting plate integral with jack shaft, I felt I would weld rather than clamp on the tubes. I also used other stuff at that shop that I already have at home, so when I was not welding I felt I was wasting money of which just now is not plentiful at the moment.

When the cost and my unemployment continued to beyond what I felt acceptable to stay a member at the shop, I just did without more welding.

It was the adding of V brake mounting brackets for the wheels as the JC Penny only had coaster brakes, and I welded a cover to keep out water from the tubes at the point where I removed the pedal crank, not to be used for off-roading. Ofcourse the engine platform and the jack shaft mounting fabrication was a good use of the TIG Welder I used there.

I took a look at the 6th picture down on this web page of The World of Motor Cycles dot com, to see what a board track racer muffler of what I thought was very small displacement looks like. Oops when I saw it was cubic inch! I have to think maybe the stroke throw was why I was misled. This thing shows that 1914 Indian with just a pipe as far as I can see must be really loud.

I rode a two stroke 3 cylinder Kawasaki 350 road bike and at least one of the 3 separate pipes had a leak where it met the muffler. It was loud. Below it seems that this I guess was a 4 stroke single cylinder 500 in CC that has just a straight pipe pointed downward at an angle.

1914 Indian Model F Boardtrack Racer - 30.50ci IOE Engine

An online conversion calculator results for CI to CC
Answer: 30.5 in³ = 499.805 cm³ ................. nearly 500 CC

http://www.theworldofmotorcycles.com/vintage_motorcycle_indian.html


My picture album has the JC Penny Bike frame before and after welding and other stuff done on this site:

http://motorbicycling.com/members/m...measure-twice-tank-carb-engine-placement.html

http://motorbicycling.com/members/m...ture742-measure-twice-early-engine-angle.html

Measure twice.

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

Ron Finch I searched and am wondering if on not his own business site, but something I found on Angle Fire about his stuff, I saw a photo label Dreamsicle, and wonder if that was Photo Shop stuff. The picture is of a over sized motor cycle that looks as if Alice in Wonder Land kind of stuff.

In any case if you see what the DMV that exist specifically for Burning Man weeklong event that happens out in the Nevada Black Rock Desert gives out approval for with its stickers, that is my intent. I could be making a whale or a dinosaur who know as of yet? Since I still have to get the shims on my rear wheel drive hub done, I’m not there with the covering yet.

I also would need to have something with more stability than two wheels. For the covering I have some of this kind of gardening tomato stand wire stuff. Also some that is not that cone shaped stuff for tomatoes, but the same gauge wire in a ladder form shape I could use and bend to shape.

If I go with a mermaid design covering for a mutant vehicle, I could be using 2 tomato cone shapes right up front

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

I got the hub ready to assemble again redone and now have covers on the moving parts so as to not get pant legs caught.

Note the pic with the pulley not centered or attached with anything other than tape is just temporary till the paint dried on the wood sandwiched parts that hold it on.

I installed folding mini bike store bought foot pegs added and need to do muffler pipe layout and straps.

I gotta be thinking of a way to prevent the threads from the pipe into the exhaust port on the engine to not get screwed up with the length of pipe that is a bit stiff.

I have seen many go-karts that have a couple of springs holding a pipe to the exhaust port with a little short pipe. It can bend and not break. Also there is a rubber snubber that holds the pipe near the end so as to dampened the vibration, but allow just minute movement if pushed on.

The leverage from along the pipe without these means you just have to be beefing up the pipe with as stiff and strong clamps to the frame.

Measure Twice

PS the side car and all the other off in the future for now!

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

The hub parts pic with redone, but not yet painted with undercoating of a kinda epoxy, resorcinol glue that make very strong the plywood.

From the earlier post the pic of the tail pipe I think I want the end to be level. Not the engine is on a 20 or so degree tilt. Using the two 45 bends, I may use a third 45 degree bend at the end on a short piece of pipe and the spark arrestor muffler pointing slightly up. Might look better don't you think?

Painted parts drying and primer bulb remote location as carb uses an air filter that has a built in primer bulb, but I didn't have that part. I have a hose to lead into the carb I made for that function. I used another modified carb with a primer bulb only for the function of the bulb pressure. I hope it will work.... just thinking there could be expansion with the length of hose I used and maybe need higher pressure to compensate, but I will find out and redo if necessary.

Measure Twice

Further Along Now, Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

A few pics after painting the rear hub sandwich pulley drive. Still need to drill some holes or ream to get one of the screws to fit. Measuring is one thing, making the cut is another

Sanded and Polished the pulley.

Foot pegs no pedals. They fold up.

I didn't need the shims after all, instead I bent the 6 tabs of the washing machine pulley to the angle of the spokes. The wood sandwich has it not deforming the shape of the pulley groove where the belt fits as it did before. The holes in the outer section of the pulley I may or may not be using as the outer section wood part was removed and instead three seperate wood parts used. I thought I could add it back in addition to keep the belt from getting between the pulley and the spokes, but that has never been a problem frrom past two similar designed, built, and ridden into the ground motor bikes.

Measure Twice

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

I needed to add some shims to underside of pulley tabs to keep the ridge underneath from making the edges of the tabs from be a fraction of an inch above the first outer wood sandwich piece.

The screws would otherwise bend down the tabs instead of static pressure to hold the whole thing together. I had it assembled in the picture shown, but I saw it would be stressing the metal tabs and made the shims.

I will probably see about drilling the 4th hole in all of the 6 tabs. There will be 24 instead of 18 screws to be used. I looked to see if stainless steel 8-32 screws were available in length between 1 an ½ and 2 inches. There were none, so I need to cut possibly the 2 inchers down so they look good.

A friend mentioned I could have cut a slot where the metal ridge would fit in the wood sandwich and I mentioned I thought of that but then that would weaken the wood part.

Grinding off the ridge on the tab would also weaken the pulley tabs; I only did that on one the upper side near the out edge of the tabs to allow bending the tabs slightly to match the cone shape of the spoke set.

I be assembling it again soon to see how it looks and drill the other holes and try it on the bike maybe as a test not riding, but the frame with motor on a stand and check out the clutch and the jack shaft and wheel all moving with the engine powered on.

Measure Twice

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?



Has anyone done any low power MIG welding to make sheet metal parts be attached together by welding? I have just cut up an old gas grill made of steel and made some parts for chain guard and also a protective cover for a carb I don't want throttle linkages exposed.

I did not use the welder for the parts, but now I found I want to take and carve away some metal with a grinder and then add some of the metal back in a way that the cover will work out better. My foot pegs for OHV motor bike are fine, but my right calf bumps a little into the carb cover and I'm going to modify it to be a little sleeker.

Three attached pics. The newer one with chain and belt on and muffler pipe coming together. I will be covering even more of the hot exhaust parts and some area by the carb linkages on top side.

See the area from rear view, the right side cover for carb air filter house sticks out to the right too much. I need to take that curved metal on the right adjacent to the black plastic air filter cover.

Air filter cover is the thing that would otherwise look rectangular shape, but has a half moon scalloped out section on its left side.

The beige dot is tape I put over a port I made for a hose to go to an external primer bulb mounted on the top bar of the frame. I made an adapter plate that fits in-between the carb and the air filter to get access to this primer port.

The carb I bought has no choke or any adjustments so this was something I did to be sure I could get it started easy.

Only have used a vacu –jet carb running it so far on the recondition Briggs 3hp 70’s ish engine. It ran great after I did the overhaul and also cut the valve and seats by taking to machine shop. Now the angles are much better and seals great.

For the fuel, it was a non-gravity fuel flow type, so now I changed it to a tank above the engine.

On doing reforming of what sheet metal I already have any suggestions. I know with the compound curves, cut and folding I might try and also weld to finish, but it can be an interesting thing to achieve. Need to practice on the thin metal first before this starts, but any one done this can you please advise?

Measure Twice

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

It is for both, but for OHV right away the ratio might be OK as it is similar to what I used before there.

The cover for the gears as you can see in the picture shows the jackshaft gear as slightly larger than the centrifugal clutch gear. Not that it does much gearing down, but I may get one bigger to do the multiplying effect along with the two pulley small jackshaft to big rear pulley on back wheel.

I’d do a bit of mod-ing the cover and maybe even make it such to be able to revert back to a smaller cover when for OHV if it seems prudent. McMaster-Car has some gears that fit that are about 7 inches, only thing I have to check back again as I do remember some are this polyester plastic stuff and an not thinking it will be of any use. Note the teeth are metal, but the spokes and bore are of that stuff.

The biggest steel or cast iron with 5/8” finished bore I think I saw as maybe 3 to 4 inches. I have to think really about 6 to 7 inches I think. Excepting if I decide to just put a gear and go without clutch on the engine crankshaft, I might get away letting the engine chug. It was what I did before and works since you do not need a clutch to engage at like 1750 rpm. You hear each beat of the engine as you start out and slow to stop.

I've done tight circles not falling with it in the chug mode.

Only stopping with kill switch and brakes are what the Burning Man DMV of their own may or may not be OK with. It only just makes a slightly jerkier stopping, but nothing what so ever that you have awkwardness.

It just makes starting engine when not warm a little bit like give me some room or lift rear tire in some way, that I’d bet would not be allowed as you’re not on the bike when starting and no clutch….whew!

Additionally for gearing down I may as I’ve been trying to get the slightly larger pulley on a rear wheel attached to the spoke, the Whizzer it is I think half again bigger. My washing machine pulley is 10 inch and Whizzer Sheave is 15 inch.

The Whizzer rep called back but said they are out. I was in phone tag and really I wanted to buy local and be sure it would fit. The only place I found that had them already in Stainless Steel as I last checked at their shop Memory Lane for about $150. They are quite nice on the phone and very helpful, but only they are not local.

I don’t want to chance of having to get a refund and probably paying shipping both ways if it does not fit. I have the smaller diameter spoke as on mountain bikes and have 26 inch 3 lace of 36 spokes.

I’d have another total separate wheel as I have extras, but I thought if they built the wheel, asking for no brakes….. using like a front wheel… I’d use the V-brake I have on the rim. This way I would just add my own tire and tube and they could use a wheel that has heavier gauge spokes and it would already be assembled by them, not to worry about fitting.

If I went for it I might let them sell me the rim too and it would be added cost and I might consider that. A drum in the rear could also be something I would consider but am a little strapped for cash so I'd be looking to wait on that.

I’ve been looking at used stuff around at various places to find a drum and then I’d de-lace the front but let a shop put the drum in and lace back up with either same or larger diameter spokes.

Thanks for the info on the torch. I think though if they have adaption for use with hose or buy a kit with that uses hose to connect the map cylinder to torch so easier in hand to do brazing, I'd opt for that.

I will first do the MIG and see how with current and feed rate do as you said experimenting on scrap first.


Measure Twice

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

These are pics of the build so far:

The sleeve only for electrical galvanic prevention in water pipes where connected to dissimilar metals and could promote corrosion is removed as it would melt under the heat.

I checked it will not have any detrimental effect as it provides no mechanical properties for when coupling is tightened down, only very thin insulator. I heated a needle in flame and used it to cut in two places the plastic sleeve, and then removed it.

The bead of the goop should form inside the loosely tightened connector. I will not fully tighten the connectors until the goop dries. So just tighten till it resists and maybe a little is seen trying to leak out.

The rubber washer in the ends though is removed and using high temp Permatex with copper forma-gasket 700 F for a replacement. I am to put the equivalent of the volume of material in to make the washer.

The package on not this but others similar different company say you can put a film of oil on the surfaces to make the gasket you form removable, but I think I’d just leave it as permanent to the extent that you can just pull it apart and peel away as much as you can and re-goop again.

The thing though when peeling away or any time near the sealing surfaces not hard material, only soft wood or the like. You don’t want scratches in the surfaces, even though it is only low back pressure in a muffler pipe, I would like it to seal as best as can be.

MT

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

The picture from above in the vice shows it after heated needle cut it.

Here is the heated needle view of how nicely it can slice.

Sleeve easily removed.

MT

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

The muffler under banana seat and the guards from heat are getting put together. I will have a bit more heat guards along the flex pipe also.

For parade slow speed I have now a second 10 inch pulley and a belt clutch on order.

I am getting together brackets to hold the jackshaft about 1 inch aft and 2 inches up to make it fit and my leg can touch the foot pegs without the belt guard to build in the way. The chain and clutch that is there now will still be something I may use for higher gear ratio, or maybe use the same belt clutch and have a few smaller sizes to go on the jackshaft in place of the 10 inch and the 2 inch. Mix and match to get what is for the application at the time.

Walking around the hardware store I found some clamps that are used in plumbing and will see if they are better than the ones I already got at fitting the tube 1/2 size of the sissy bar. A covering for art vehicle should be able to be attached and removed and not leave a bunch of weld point that would be a bit troublesome to cover so that are not scrape hazards when I am riding as OHV dirt biking.

I did think though I could weld threaded holes that would allow to attach an art covering and if made without sharp edges, I may go that route. Maybe I could just use nuts or couplers that are maybe ½ - 20 thread and weld onto frame, but also make a rounded surface to the edges of the hex nut or better yet round coupler stock.

MT

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

pics of flywheel and the pull start

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

I posted at another thread about my fixing the recoil pawl clutch.
On what did you do to your motorbike today post #3111:

http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?p=364479#post364479

The ball bearings and the chamber that they are in were all gunked up, I degreased and re-lubed. It was over running and scratching the clutch innards and spitting the rope out. All fixed now and also a new key as it sheared when attempting to compress the recoil spring and spit out the rope.

The gap on the breaker points were set OK previous, but I had also a kill switch wire break where it also makes a y connection to the points. This meant there was no breaker points circuit to the magneto and no spark. Before I knew the break in the wire covered by good insulation which hid it, I cleaned the points and all connections under the breaker cover. Now I am getting the setting back at the 0.020" or whatever gets all range of speed on the throttle and good power overall.

While I was getting the points reset, I found I need to make better clearance between a bracket for the throttle linkages.

The picture of the aluminum block (upper right hand side of picture) I machined has to have the corner cut of a little, but leaves enough metal left for the bolting holes on the adapter not break under stress. I thought of using my Dremel with cut off wheel. I will take the adapter off, I don’t want the even as empty as the carb may be so there is no fire. Also it is best to have it taken apart so the carb does not get fine grit from the cut. I can then just clean the adapter only after the cut. I always am careful with plugging to keep junk from getting in the carb and engine.

There was a stress on the threads for the carb bolting to the intake. The threads on one of the casting taps was messed up partially. The clearance was not an issue when I first made the adapter, but the throttle linkages bracket I though was not pushing it side ways.

Here is what I did to fix it sort of. I cleaned out the first few threads that will now not do any good holding, but two thirds of the threads that are deeper in are still OK and the will hold some. This is still only 2 turns. I will fix the adapter before reinstalling the carb.

I may do a Heli-Coil fix at some time in the future for this.

There also was another thread that had the same issue that was on the top of the flywheel cover to the screw hole on the cylinder head. This is a separate bolt than the ones that hold the head down, so not a big issue. This one has 4 full turns of threads remaining and I would not bother with a Heli-Coil for it, where as the carb the one of the two that is messed up there has now only about 2 turns. I really don’t feel comfortable leaving a thread with only 2 turns.

I have a ¼-20 Heli-Coil kit for the repair and will get to it sometime soon.

I took the time to buy a new feeler gauge I was missing and then found it totally cover with oil. I suppose that is not so bad, but don’t want oil contaminating the points when I use the gauge to set them. The picture of the acetone in the pan and rags to clean off is shown.

Lot of tedious work made for me, but at least there of good quality gauges and no rust on them. Made in China, but look good. Maybe the slow boat transport it is good to have oil on them. The brass may have been OK without oil, but the steel ones it also has would not be good rusted.

The last time I tried setting the points I did not find my old feeler gauge and used some plastic, but it is not as good. I used my digital calipers to check the thickness of the plastic, but now I’m on track.

The remote bulb for the primer on the top tube connected by hose to the special adapter to make connection to the area just on the side of the flange on the air intake by air filter is show in a picture.

The ¼-20 inch thread part from a type of concrete wall molly of sort, I took the nail out of and use to make the connection from my adapter to the hose. The hose then to a carb that is defunct except for primer bulb. I modified it to be just only the primer for the functioning carb that expected to have an air filter with the primer bulb built in to it, integral type. I was happy to see that the engine started fine, but only after my taking the hose from tank to carb and holding it below the gas tank and running in a container to get bubbles out.

I empty the gas tank each time and the hose is not exactly straight down, but sit will siphon OK, just initially when filling from empty the de-bubbling the line is necessary. This is not really a big inconvenience.


MT

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

Previous Post
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There also was another thread that had the same issue that was on the top of the flywheel cover to the screw hole on the cylinder head. This is a separate bolt than the ones that hold the head down, so not a big issue. This one has 4 full turns of threads remaining and I would not bother with a Heli-Coil for it, where as the carb the one of the two that is messed up there has now only about 2 turns. I really don’t feel comfortable leaving a thread with only 2 turns.

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I guess I was trying to remember, actually the one of the two threads on the carb 1/4-20 on the engine casting have 4 full turns of thread still ok. What I was noticing though is that the split lock washer before it compresses when the bolt is tightened down takes up two turns of the thread. I'm not really that comfortable with having the tension on the split lock washer starting out compressing with only 2 turns yet engaged. It was 4 turns prior to loosing 2 turns when the first few threads bit the dust. Since it is not a through hole thread and bottoms out, if it compresses the washer and subsequently has the threads remain intact, I think it should be OK, otherwise I will do the Heli-Coil insert to fix it.

MT

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

I got the thread issues handled without any problem further. I ground a little away of the edge of a split lock washer so that the casting on the elbow bend fitted to the intake the screws go in straight.

I also ground away a bracket that was nudging on the carb breather hose that goes to the airfilter.

I started the engine and have to adjust the point gap as this time it is even worse than before. I shall try making it a smaller gap and see how it runs. Again if better but not the best, I'll try still smaller and then go the other way.

I still have the old vacujet carb and tank and may just try before I change the point gap see if the carb may be the problem, or the carb combined with all the bends in intake and air filter. I'm hoping it does not make any difference as it is probably easier to adjust point gap that try to figure what to do to my carb since there are no adjustments on it. Some say that float level affects how it runs, I'm thinking maybe that is one thing I could adjust.

Anyone use Briggs & Stratton 498170 Carburetor

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00176FTW0/ref=oh_o00_s00_i02_details

if adjusting the float may be necessary to get to run right do you know how?

MT