Art Fish Mobile Motor Bike prior Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

[cannonball2]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

There are several versions of the carb you have linked. The ones used on most mowers dont have a true low speed circut. The ones from the horizontial engines do as is evidenced by an idle screw, thats the one you want. On the issue of running, I can add this for what its worth. I installed a 6.5hp B&S in my small boat in a semi inboard fashion. In order to keep it from drawing heated intake air from the engine compartment I ran an intake source via a flex hose from outside the box. It would not run well set up like that. runs like a top with out it. Its run of hose was about 10". Just a thought.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

CB thanks for that info, but I need clarification on what you said.

Does this mean that and extended tube to route the air going into the carb was 10” and helped allow cooler air into the carb that was drawn away from the engine. This worked?

Or was this what you felt would help, but then the even short length of the tube had a negative effect so that it was dispensed with? You just had left it like it was?

Which is the true correct one?

==================================================

New info and also Idle Not A Problem just to let you know.

Wanted to let you know, I have a good enough idle on this engine without any adjustments using this carb, but at full throttle it starts to miss. I was able to adjust the breaker point gap and gets it a little better than how I had adjusted it once before. I will record how I have it set and zone in on what is best for an overall range of speeds from idle to full throttle.

Today though I had checked again to find more information data gathering without changing the gap and found that when I removed a portion of a part attached to my airfilter housing, that I had better medium throttle.

This is a portion that is to later to be attached to a corrugated house to get air up and away from dusty ground but not yet attached. When I saw this I cut away some material that was restricting air flow and put this portion of a cover back on. It was still not as good as it removed fully. Please note the foam airfilter was still in place. It is an old foam filter, but is clean.

Now here is something I don’t ever suggest anyone ever do, but just for a short while I removed the foam airfilter and ran it (no filter), careful to see that there was no dust present. I am not riding it at this point yet and it was stationary, just the bike with the engine mounted on it and not moving. So what did it do, ran just fine. The range from idle to max perfect, maybe a few every 15 seconds a slight miss. Maybe the breaker points need a little better adjustment.

I know I have to have a filter, but thought maybe a new foam airfilter or even a paper airfilter that may have less air flow restriction is what I intend now.

I bought a paper Briggs filter that goes on a Toro Mower and looks to have a similar carb as mine without any needle valve adjustment screw. It will take a little work to get it to go into my airfilter holder that was previously meant for a foam one. I modified it before to get it to work with the new carb I mentioned I have, so no problem and can further make some modification to get it to work with the paper airfilter.

I also noted that the same arrangement of gravity feed gas tank and bowl float carb on the Toro Mower as my engine except that I have an additional 3” higher the out flow from the bottom of the gas tank.

What I wonder is, does this really affect the richness or only the possibility that the float valve may not seal gas from leaking through into the bowl and then as a result change the richness. It does not leak when stopped so I was thinking 3” does not matter.

Ideally the float height would allow a certain amount of fuel in the bowl that is set precisely to get a metered amount for all range of speeds. If the float is not having a problem leaking at the valve it controls, then I think the float level is a separate issue.

The float then I think should not be messed with unless it is an adjustable float and for good reason to adjust it. The carb I bought a year ago but only just been put into use. So effectively it is new and I am thinking don’t change float level even if it can be adjusted which most the cheap ones cannot be.

With the elbow bend and a few other straight through adapters only changing the mounting, I think it will eventually be solved by a less restrictive airfilter and also maybe some breaker point adjustment.

I will though go and take my adapters off and trim the gasket material so that the amount of fuel air mixture is not impeded by a slightly smaller gasket inner diameter getting in the way, just to be sure.

It this all goes well I will try also connecting the corrugated hose I intended at first to attach to the airfilter inlet and get air up higher away from dusty ground.

The main thing I have to remember is that the Vacujet Carb and gas tank I tested out the engine before ran perfect, and it has an adjustment mixture screw, but not an idle adjustment screw. At least one is better than nothing I know, as this cheap carb without any adjustment as far as I know as there are no needle valves to tweak, seems to be making this a bit difficult. I have a video on Vimeo uploaded of the beast running great, so I hope to be able to have the newer carb have the same results with the engine.

I do believe I will put the vacujet carb with its oil bath airfilter just to see if the breaker points are set well enough to adjust the carb and get engine running well at all speeds. If there not I set them to get it right, and be back at square one as so to speak.

Then I feel that just changing the carb to the newer bowl float type I should not have to adjust the breaker points anymore, just get the airflow OK so it is not too rich a mixture. It is a way of isolating what is known good and going from there so to not get too complicated.

Probably said enough now, so I’ll stop and see what happens next.

MT

Saw this video on Youtube about float level adjust for racing performance Briggs Engine Carb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnyrRtaA2Wo

Here is a link pdf on Briggs Engine and there is information on Carb Bowl Floats, problems and adjustments

http://www.briggsandstratton.com/su...n_troubleshooting_detail_reference_guide.ashx

 

[cannonball2]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

The extended tube made the engine run very poorly. I was surprised as it was of a good size diameter and fairly straight. Ran perfectly before I installed the tube, so didnt take long to figure it out. Never investigated the cause as use proved it not necessary in my case to have the extended intake. Was just giving you a heads up on my experience. I was using the same carb you have linked but with the idle/low speed circut. Is that a Tecumseh carb? Hard to tell from the pic. If so be sure the Briggs filter is not blocking any air bleed jets in the carb throat.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

I ordered Briggs and Stratton, air cleaner housing base 795259 and cover 692298
two parts from separate dealers, but found this one in FL which has both parts used free shipping. Too late now for a better deal, but live and learn.

The first picture shows the two parts assembled together and you only really see the cover, so theres where I ended up not buying it right off any now its too late. I still am spending like 1/10 the cost of all new parts and I am trying to budget this project and use my labor instead of buying all new.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/briggs-and-...30573256&ps=63&clkid=6688694146563411331#shId

I got the parts I wanted new a primer bulb and filter and prefilter new locally.

It is a paper main filter that shall give a good air flow better than what the foam one was doing.

I actually if I had waited to see if I could have adjusted the point gap a few more times think maybe the foam filter may have worked, but working outdoors and time getting late I will probably have a better system anyway going with the paper filter.

What I was thinking was that the points being not exactly parallel, but cleaned, may mean that at an angle the point gap to get the same desired time delay is squewed such that it needs to be less than 0.020 inches.

I could be wrong about this, but it sort of is an an analogy with RMS voltage compared with Peak voltage. I don't mean the voltage type charge at the breaker points, just the idea of the volume of space between the points and not just a two dimentional idea of what a point gap represents.

Maybe I'm spaced

Anywayt, I vaguely recall a long time ago noting that I usually had a smaller gap than the 0.020 when the points were worn and if I were to make them parallel by filing I would have taken so much off that they would have to be thrown away. I left them at a partial angle and after a few tries had all range of speeds running on the Briggs engine for all the lawn mowers I kept going for my dad while growing up.

In any case I may find out still if what I had would have worked and the new and used parts could be going into another project or I save my airfilter housing that I modified for some other build with other engines I intend on restoring.

The electronic ignition may also be on the horizon for this project, but will wait and see. Probably should get new points in there at least if not going electronic is my thought now.

MT

 

[curtisfox]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

These are pics of the build so far:

The sleeve only for electrical galvanic prevention in water pipes where connected to dissimilar metals and could promote corrosion is removed as it would melt under the heat.

I checked it will not have any detrimental effect as it provides no mechanical properties for when coupling is tightened down, only very thin insulator. I heated a needle in flame and used it to cut in two places the plastic sleeve, and then removed it.

The bead of the goop should form inside the loosely tightened connector. I will not fully tighten the connectors until the goop dries. So just tighten till it resists and maybe a little is seen trying to leak out.

The rubber washer in the ends though is removed and using high temp Permatex with copper forma-gasket 700 F for a replacement. I am to put the equivalent of the volume of material in to make the washer.

The package on not this but others similar different company say you can put a film of oil on the surfaces to make the gasket you form removable, but I think I’d just leave it as permanent to the extent that you can just pull it apart and peel away as much as you can and re-goop again.

The thing though when peeling away or any time near the sealing surfaces not hard material, only soft wood or the like. You don’t want scratches in the surfaces, even though it is only low back pressure in a muffler pipe, I would like it to seal as best as can be.

MT

I was looking and wondering why you didn't turn the clutch around and put the chain on the inside?...........Curt

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

CF

See page #1 post #6 the first picture

You see that the bracket for the pillow bearing on the jackshaft is such that the chain with the gear teeth in the inside would be too close inward to match with the closest a gear could go on the jackshaft.

I checked and the clutch shoes are symmetrical and can run either way so it would not matter.

I also found I probably could move the bracket inward a bit and have it work with the clutch gear teeth the other way, but decided not to do that as extra work not gaining much for the effort.

The engine mount platform I made has only just forward and aft adjustment a small amount. There is no sideways adjustment. I also gave attention to having the engine mounted for a weight center of gravity balance where it is. It is a little heavier on the flywheel side so it volumetrically is more to the left. Do not get this to be political thing

Now just to totally blow your mind, I found I needed to get way more than 8.3 to one using the short chain and not very large gear on the jackshaft.

OHV dirt bike riding still would need around 20:1 ratio lowering. Cost for the larger gear and placement was a problem. Now so I can get a radically lower ratio I found inexpensive a 10 inch diameter pulley that fits the 5/8 jackshaft. I will have to move the jack shaft location, but it only involves making the bracket taller so the large pulley fits in place.

Pulleys were way cheaper than gears and the Link-Belt v-belt are great as chaining adding length and shortening length are a snap. I bought a new belt clutch and it will have the bell housing on the inside and the belt on the outside, it too has symmetrical shoes.

So I don’t burn up the clutch using a pulse on off to get an acceptable slow parade speed under 5 mph, I found that I would not have enough lowering of ration using the pulleys small to larger and multiplying again small to larger, I have thought of two jackshafts, six pulleys, and three belts.

The jackshaft bracket I will have attached also to a point above as well as below for sturdiness. I think I can manage to stack one jackshaft on top of another with enough room for pulley clearance. I find that a 47:1 ratio lowering will get me the 3.5 mph at 2200 rpm and 5.5 mph at 3500 rpm and the clutch range for engagement is from 2000 rpm to 2200 rpm which is above the idle of the engine at 1750 rpm.

Currently am waiting for parts for the airfilter that will allow for greater breathing without as much resistance. I think if I could also find out if others out there do a sort of tractor sled pull with a motorbike with ratio as I am intending. Open the throttle and throw dirt!

MT

PS another picture showing a better angle to see about the chain not being able to be straight and a-skew would not be as easy as with a belt. Chains snap when going off sideways over a gear tooth. Note the muffler is only temporary to test, there is more info earlier posts on extend exhaust manifold with copper flex tube.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

I got the V-brakes fixed up and since I needed to make an adapter to get the pulley side of the rear wheel brake shoe have a longer reach I made the part cleverly, I think so anyway.

The spacer to get the pulley to not rub on the frame was the reason this was all necessary. When I welded the brake bosses on to make the mount for the v-brakes before I had not known I would be using a spacer on the left side of the rear wheel.

The first version seen with the v-brake and the part installed had bad threads since the die was too big for the size of the brake pad round stub. I used a ¼ -28 die and it was perfect with the coupler from the hardware store. I shortened the coupler length so I had it not interfere with the area that tightens the shoe on.

I also found that lock nut not to be good enough to hold the parts from loosening. I used 3/32 inch roll pins on each of the threads drilled through and both sides of coupler. It may not be able to get the threads to work anymore, but I don’t care. I’ll make the parts again when I need brake shoes.

It is just for one anyway not all four. If it can be reused that will be nice. I can try the tap and die to clean if it can help it be reused when the brake pad for this specific one needs replacement.

Some pictures of that process.

I had to get a stronger return spring for the throttle and will be seeing how that turns out.

The center stand seemed to be a good buy on Amazon. It is made by Sunlite and has not show any cracks. Of course don’t try sitting on the seat with it down. I almost started to try rocking it to put stand like I had done on a Kawaski 350 and stopped and got off.

Still quite nice for what the stand is and all I needed was the plate and a longer bolt to hook it up! Hardware store and some old kickstand plate I found lying around did it right.

The rear wheel pulley when it was mounted threw the true of the wheel out slightly and I am bringing back to have a shop true it again, but before I do I will add the thread lock prep activator (best for stainless steel.. less active metal) and threadlock blue.

The engine idles fine and goes all speed without hiccups with the thin foam prefilter and the major paper filter which I changed from the foam filter that I understand was for a Tecumseh.

I think it would have worked anyway if I had a carb with mixture needle valve adjustment, but the cheap bowl carb from Briggs is running right with the proper filter now.

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

I'll get to doing the muffler pipe and all the protection stuff from burns possible otherwise and the cover for the protection of delicate carb linage to throttle, and the belt pulley cover for safety too. Prevous post show the muffler as it will be under the banana sea with the copper flex pipe and guard, as well as the different spark arrestor muffler. Should be quiter and not rob much power. 3hp is pretty good for this and the 4 stroke low end helps too.

The chain clutch is going away as it was cheaper for the pulley I need to be big. Two jackshafts, six pulleys and three belts to be the 47:1 ratio so I get 2200rpm 3.5 mph and 3500rpm 5.5 mph there abouts should be for parade fish mobile cruising at 4mph and not working the centrifugal clutch by otherwise needing to pulse the throttle all the time.

Otherwise I want maybe 20:1 for hill climber dirt bike and maybe can get 10:1 with the one jackshaft and pulleys that fit the situation now with the jackshaft bracket made for just the one jackshaft.

MT

Additional pics of the bike with the center stand. I can take on and off wheel using it.

The wheel without a washing machine pulley attached to keep the bike upright when I take the pullyed wheel to get trued after I do the thread lock stuff on the attachments to the pulley.

==================================

New Stuff

New 3 more pics added to the first 2 description follows

3rd Picture:

The working motor bike with 8:1 ratio will cook the clutch if you don't let get the speed of 15 mph on flat (preferably desert salt flats speed record kinda) when it is going from idle 1750 rpm not centrifugal clutch engaged, next 2000 rpm start of bell to ting and catch clutch to 2200 fully engaged clutch.

If I had the OK and set this up like this again, I could go and see what 3500 rpm would do, but am looking at OHV dirt biking at about 20:1 ratio should be thinking about 2200 rpm 5 mph and 3500 rpm max out at about 20 mph but have not checked the numbers that close yet.

Though I have also 47:1 ratio for parade speed 2200 rpm 3.5 mph and max out 3500 rpm 5.5 mph about. Mixing the pulleys around and I should not need any extra pulleys to buy. Small to big gets the gear down and visa vera. Since I will be having two jackshafts and 3 belts to attach six pulleys (one being the centrifugal clutch) I would see what can be done to that order later and buy more pulleys if needed. If the clearance allows on the jackshafts by making less gearing down with the existing pulleys then that will be best.

The 4th picture (also 2nd picture too) shows with the rear wheel changed over to another wheel I have without the large 10 inch washing machine pulley mounted so it can be stored for a while that way while I get the one with the washing machine pulley trued a little better since the pulley was put on and distorted it some. While it was still light I thought how the jackshafts stacking one above another was going to pan out.

As far as the needing for trueing not that much to notice while doing a test run to about 15mph, but have a little extra space for the brake shoes so that it does not rub, that shall be not needed when trued right.

Last picture 5th as it was getting late and had someone hold the upper-jackshaft to be eventually mounted directly above the lower one shows:

The clutch about 3 inch pulley that a belt will go from it to a 10 inch diameter pulley on one end and then across to the other side of the down tube an small about 2 inch pulley.
Then that 2 inch diameter pulley will have a short belt go directly down to a about a 4 inch pulley on the lower-jack shaft right side. Then the lower jack shaft left side has a 1.5 inch diameter pulley that will have a belt that goes to the drive washing machine 10 inch diameter pulley attach to the rear 26 inch diameter wheel.

And away it goes from what I thought with the exact computation with the pulleys before about 47:1 ratio gearing down otherwise what I just stated was about 44:1 not counting the 26 inch wheel, just the pulleys only. My method for speed was to figure the pulley ratio to engine rpm and the rpm to the rear wheel. Then the distance the 26 inch wheel moves with in a given time (Hour for mph) with respect to rpm to get the speed in mph.

The picture is not showing the upper-jackshaft very well as it go cut off in the picture, but the large 10 inch diameter pulley is actually further back and in reality when mounted it is going to be done with the pillow bearings that will be on mounted brackets that will be directly above the lower-jackshaft if possible, or only less than an inch aft if necessary.

Oh yea one last detail, you probably see that I turned the clutch around so that the pulley is on the inside now. Just want to have clearence as much as possible and with covers to guard from moving pulleys and belts so that my feet go to foot pegs safely.

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

Just added additional 3 pics to the above post #28

The bike runs

More to do though

MT


PS

Something extra not known before:

The twist grip throttle when twisted fully for full out and if you continue to twist it keeps turning. What I thought am I bending something. I know it would not be my actual carb plastic throttle part as it is somewhat separated from any real force other that the range I set for it through a spring that can bend at both ends of the travel for the throttle.

What it is I found is the twist grip may be made that it can be replaced when worn out. The cover is such that it is not glued all together. It is friction only over the part that is actually the part that twists and pulls the cable, so it is another way the cable is not pulling too much to hurt anything.

I have a powerful return spring, but it does not slip, only at the very end, so I guess this is a mute point. You would have to take a second hand to hold the throttle at max and then re-grab with the original hand to really get any more of a revolution to turn it any further anyhow. It’s OK and I am not thinking of adding any glue to it, but thought maybe someone else has noticed this.

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

Here are clearer pictures of the same as the above post. I will have to trim away some of a carb adapter plate that has an area of conflict with the top-jackshaft bracket on right side for its pillow bearing.

Not a problem as it will not have much needed to be trimmed away.

The brackets are coming together and will be making something to attach all four tops of the brackets to the top of the down tube for it to be sturdy.

I will see about getting 2 of the kind of clamps that are used on the seat post around the top of the down tube. I will use these to attach some smaller brackets to make connection at the top of the four pillow bearing brackets.

The 4th picture is from the brackets that will be going away. They are too short and need to be higher and support the double jackshafts. The area where the pillow bearings are mounted in the semi-round metal that it came with has two each 5/16 thread bolts to attach to my brackets.

The brackets I make also need a small amount trimmed away (as seen in 4th picture) to allow the outer edge of the pillow bearing to not be pressed on when the bolts are torqued down. They are only to be held in place by either pulleys or spacers that have set screws. I have shaved the ends to a round point so that they do not mark up the jackshafts full length keyway. These spacers do not have slots for keyways.

Made sure the copper flex exhaust is not going to be in the way of the top jackshaft and bracket. I'll see if while it is raining for a week can make to replacement high temp rtv gasket for the rubber one that came with the copper flex tube for plumbing. I already removed the nylon sleeve and that is described in an earlier post. It too would burn under exhaust engine heat.

Also the truing of the rear wheel which has the 10 inch washing machine pulley can have its stainless steel mounting screws primed and covered a bit with Locktite before the truing begins. As I take a screw out if it goes back in under slightly different amount of torque it would change the truing, so I rather have all the Locksite dried and all screws back in place and true it then.

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

I was looking and wondering why you didn't turn the clutch around and put the chain on the inside?...........Curt

I got a belt clutch and have used it with belt on outside just like the chain type clutch and rode the bike. I now am making lower gear (pulley) ratio and now decided the belt will be in the inside as usual. This will make it so that there is this large 10 inch pulley will be closer to the frame so it along with a belt/pulley guard will not make it so I cannot get my leg to the foot pegs impeded.

The extreme 2 jackshaft three belt will get a about 47:1 ratio for my mutant fish motor bike art vehicle. To be California Sheepshead Fish to cruise ath 4 mph!

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Re: Motor Bike DIY'er build to add side car maybe?

I finished making an extra of the extended reach brake shoe for the left side of the rear drop out for where the spacer moved the left side to clear pulley and belt from frame.

Now I have one on there and an extra.

The double jack shaft stacking is going as planned, but I did not plan the cut too well. I measured OK I suppose, but the curved cut I was trying to make with the large cutter wheel on the angle grinder as compared to a Dremel tool cutter wheel, had me cut too close to the existing hole on one of the 4 brackets I needed to clear the carb and associated manifold adapter. I chose not to use the Dremel tool as the metal is so thick and don't want to burn up the relatively smaller motor as compared to the angle grinder.

I'll also trim the carb manifold adapter and get another bracket and redo but use a bunch of V shape cuts with the angle grinder cut off wheel and then grind down the peaks so to approximate a curve and have enough metal aside the drilled hole to give a study mount.

I have to get to looking online or at a local shop for 1 or 2 each of a seat post clamp to put somewhere below the top of the down tube to use with some more brackets to attach to the top of the 4 of the double jack shaft brackets I am making now. They are to keep it sturdy enough as now there is that angular force at the top that needs to keep from getting pushed around.

MT

In the first picture, I have the old single jack shaft brackets for each side just there for size to get measurement and what existing holes in the brackets I bought to see if they could be used. They can be, but trimming away some metal as I expained above will need to be done again more carefully.

Picture 5 has the best I could find to make a covering to adapt this dirt bike DIY'er Build to become Motor Bike Art Fish Mobile that should as best resemble a Female California Sheephead Fish.

Found this to treat fabric
http://www.amazon.com/No-Burn-Fabric-Fire-Spray-32-Ounce/dp/B002TKLD14

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

I found a nicer banana seat that has better padding and is a little wider at the forward section. There seems to be padding on the sides as well. The back has a shape that slopes up a bit more aggressively but I like it.

The redoing of the pillow bearing on the top jackshaft of the two stacked ones near the carb adapter and bowl has been so far a success. I trimmed the part of the adapter and now just need to drill or widen some holes and put the thing together.

I have on order some parts that are the clamps (steel) that I will use on parts of the frame not intended as they were made for (seat post) but use to clamp to tubes and make a brace for the top of the twin jackshaft brackets, making then stronger. Also may use them for the skeleton to hold the spars or something to put fabric of the fish cover over the motor bike. I got also on order fire retardant spray for fabric.

I had to take the adapter off the carb to do the trimming and put it in a vise but you have to do things right...right!

I was looking at my pictures before in some earlier posts where the fuel line has printed on it "not for fuel" then I could not see the rest and thought I bought the right stuff. Well where I have that picture with that showing, not to worry it continues "not for fuel injection systems". I guess that will be the next mod

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

The right side of the upper of the two jackshafts I have finished one side of the mounting brackets cut to shape to hold the pillow bearing holder.

The pillow bearing holder which is one of four I have to get fitted to have all four pillow bearing set up for the two jackshafts, where one is directly mounted above the other on common 4ea angle brackets.

I'm awaiting in about a week for seat clamps made of steel I intend to spread just once and then put below the place where one usually is for the seat, but my intension is to have it below the top tube and make an attachment without welding to the down tube. I will use one or maybe two of these clamps and steady the four angle brackets for the dual stacked jackshafts near the top and maybe the middle too.

I got my flame retardant spray today and am going to see about testing it for any color change to the fabric that it is suppose to protect. I will only use a small sample as if it adversely affects the pattern of the fabric to be a California Sheepshead Fish it has to not be used on the bulk of the fabric and saved for what I don't know.

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Top jackshaft bracket holders for pillow bearings done and bottom ones too, but too late to insert bearings in lower shaft and hook up all belts. Later for that. Need also to extend a little of the welded platform for this to work right, but temporarily made a metal bolts on part to suffice.

MT

Fuel line hose will definately be rerouted.... thats the exhaust manifold in copper flex.

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

I have got all the pulleys mounted, but need to have them lined up with the angles a little straighter before I put all three belts on. There is adjustment forward and aft of both the left and right double side brackets that hold left and right pillow bearing for upper and lower jackshafts. These have to be just right so that no undue stress in on the bearings and there true. Also the pulleys lined up accurate so that the belts are inline. I will be seeing to that next time I am working on the bike. The jackshafts did allow the pulleys to spin quite freely, but am not yet satisfied with the lining up of everything so next time will be nice to see the dry run of turning by than the clutch pulley 47 times around by hand to see the rear 26 inch wheel with its 10 inch pulley mounted on it go around just once.

Fire retardant spray worked well. With blow torch it did turn to carbon ash, but that is over kill as a test. Also butane lighter on the treated fabric also did the same but if after any length of time with the flame on the fabric and it removed, the fabric was not burning. Same went for the bow torch. It might glow for a second and then be out. It takes additional flame to make it char otherwise nothing happens as it is out right away. The stuff is good. It makes it so that the fabric will not burn on its own heat, because it is out when heat removed and never adds any thing to the flame applied. I had not tried the fabric without the coating, but will try that too. I was a bit busy and more interested in doing the jackshaft and still ran short on time to get the belts on, so for next time.

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Few more pics and the belts line up right.

The shortest belt is a bit loose.

The adjustment of the shortest belt will need to mix an match a slightly larger or smaller pulley as taking out one link, the link belt does not allow the belt to pop on by rolling pulleys as one link out is too great a step in tightening.

To have a slightly smaller pulley taking out a link or slightly larger pulley by itself or with adding a link might get it just right.

A longer belt on the other two have enough legnth so they stretch just so slightly across all the links. Too few links on the shorter belt for that to happen.

I'd adjust the dual jack shaft brackets, but need to extend the platform to be able to do that and would not want to bother with that until I can set up my welder and a place to do it.

The temporary little bit I extended on one side with a bracket is really temporary and will have a better adjustment range when i extend the platform for both sides that the jackshafts mounts are attached to.

Then I can adjust those, but that will affect the engine belt, but there I have a longer belt and can add an remove links no problem, as well as move a minor bit the whole engine forward or aft.

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

I found a very small kiddy bike that has wheels with tires the width of what the usual 24 inch wheels have what 2 an 1/4 inch or so, but these are about 10 inch in diameter.

I tested the frame is attracted to a magnet so its parts I might remove paint, cut and weld if I see need for those parts too.

What is this about, bigger than usual training wheels! I think that they with or without shocks would be able to assist keeping the art vehicle up right if going slow as is necessary in parades.

The first 10 inch pulley connected to the centrifigul clutch by belt is 10inch diameter and will spin at between 400 to 500 rpm. I found for $10 some 20 gauge sheet steel that I am going to make a cover for those fast moving parts. Once the cover is in place I can see not just what I pretty much know how to calculate, the range of speed, but the help if any of the gyro effect of the large fast moving pulley. If it is much the same as the wheels on the bike at medium to fast speeds where that keeps the bike more stable, this will be interesting to see. If I geared down even more could it be like a Segway except no smarts, just a lot of gyro effect. Go ½ mph and can’t be pushed over till engine at idle?

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

I was thinking maybe a manual slip clutch but building it though I have not made one before, I decided on a centrifugal clutch instead.

With a manual clutch 4mph going slow while slipping a belt tension system, that would not make the engine rev slower than idle and would not carbon up the cylinder head.

I suppose coasting a bit between pulsing the foot pedal part of a manual clutch to get the speed slow and not wear too much the belt could also be done.

I had tried the 8:1 ratio on my 26 inch wheel and the math says it would be 22 mph at 2200 rpm and 33 mph at 3500 rpm. Heating the clutch to get started I have a video of me trying it out and almost got the clutch fully engaged at 2200 rpm, but think I fell short as I didn't have enough room to ride and was doing about 15 mph. Pretty much useless!

Ratio calc for reduce is a smaller to larger diameter pulley.

Like 2 inch to 10 inch which equates to 10 / 2 = 5.

5 is my 1st reduction ratio.

Next is my jackshaft #1 to jackshaft #2 with 2 inch to 4 inch which equates to 4 / 2 = 2.

2 is my 2nd reduction ratio.

Next is my jack shaft #2 with 2 inch to rear wheel drive 10 inch which equates to 10 / 2 = 5.

5 is my 3rd reduction ratio.

Total is the multiplication of all 3 so 5 * 2 * 5 = 50.

The actual sizes of the pulleys I have are not exact like I mentioned above, but not too far off. I got 44 to 1 ratio actually.

The speed calculation requires knowing the rpms at the clutch engage to full throttle range.

Also it requires knowing the size of the tire drive wheel.

I have 26 inch diameter.

The radius "R" is 1/2 diameter which is 13 inches.

A constant call Pi is about 3.14 and is used to find the circumference "C" of the tire.

Calculated as C = (2 * Pi) * R

C = (2 * 3.14) * 13

C = (6.28) * 13

C = 81.64 inches

How many feet in a mile? 5280.

How many inches in a mile? 5280 * 12 inches = 63360

What part of a mile is 81.64 inches? 81.64 / 63360 =
0.00128851010 repeating 101010’s

My idle is about 1750rpm clutch starts to engage at 2000rpm and fully engaged at 2200rpm by manufactuer specifications.

2200 rpm times ratio 44:1 is (2200 / 44) = 50 rpm

At 2200 rpm rear wheel 10 inch drive pulley is turning 50 rpm.

Distance in miles the travel of tire in 1 minute (revolutions per minute) = 50 * 0.00128851010 = 0.06442550505 repeating 050505’s miles per minute.

Lastly change to miles per hours. 60 minutes in an hour.

60 * 0.06442550505 = 3.86553030 repeating 303030’s

About 4 mph at 2200rpm using 44:1 ratio and 26 inch tire.

3500 rpm times ratio 44:1 is (3500 / 44) = 79.5454 repeating 545454 rpm

At 3500 rpm rear wheel 10 inch drive pulley is turning 79.5454 rpm

Distance in miles the travel of tire in 1 minute (revolutions per minute) = 79.5454 * 0.00128851010 = 0.102495121 miles per minute.

Lastly change to miles per hours. 60 minutes in an hour.

60 * 0.102495121 = 6.149707

About 6 mph at 3500rpm using 44:1 ratio and 26 inch tire.

parade 4 to 6 mph not much range of speed.

For my dirt bike range of speed still not too much range, but hope it will work.

I will take the 4 inch pulley that goes to the 2 inch pulley and replace it with a 2 inch pulley thereby nulling out any reduction.

Effectively this then in relation to what it previous ratio was 44:1 is now change by divide by 2 to make 22:1 ratio.

4 / 2 = 2 so without this reduction as before it is now 22:1 ratio.

Without all the calculations, simply double the speeds

With 22:1 ratio about 8 mph at 2200 rpm to 12 mph at 3500 rpm.

I think the clutch should not get too warm if I attain the 8 mph and about for the majority of riding with that ratio.

It just bewildered me how I had such a better control with range of speed when no clutch at all, this is how it was like the first build I made.

I will probably try it again without a clutch, but where I already made the multiple jackshaft system safety where most likely required in parades, I’ll have it where necessary.

MT

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Fish Mobile ... Update on the build for the covers over pulleys and belts, MT

Fish Mobile ... Update on the build for the covers over pulleys and belts.

To MIG Weld the sheet metal two parts to go make a single cover over the clutch with its pulley and the first connection on the top of two jack shaft attaining 44:1 reduction ratio for 4 to 6 mph speed range that will eliminate need to pulse throttle heating clutch also if were a dirt dike ratio of like 22:1.

I will use that 22:1 later, by just changing 1 pulley to match another, effectively making no reduction where belt goes from top to bottom jackshaft.

I have to extend the depth of the larger of the two covers parts. Actually the cover is of a trashed gas grill. You can see four hoes and the word handle on it if looking closely. The strip of sheet metal I bent to round shape will add to it by welding. There are tabs of metal on the larger of the two pieces as I will have those tabs as a guide while welding. I can tack those two pieces together with the tabs on the larger to the smaller, then add some other strip or pieces to approximate a curve to fill the gap as cutting a tight fit was not exactly done as you can plainly see.

Any ideas on what you may have done with 20 gauge sheet metal welding appreciated!

I got these really nice clamps that go on the jack shafts to hold the pillow bearings in place. They do not mark up the jackshaft with set screw. They are split on one end with a few thousandths inch larger than the 5/8 inch. One set screw clamps them so no side to side. The more expensive ones are two pieces and even have a keyway slot, but I went with the least expensive one that still would be not marking up the jackshaft. Cleaning up marks to move a pulley was something I was not going to have to do anymore that I got them. Set screws on keys that go in keyways were not marking, but others do.

I use the two right hand side pulleys on the top and bottom jack shafts to hold the pillow bearing up against the holders that are mounted on the 4 angle brackets, thus eliminating these clamps at those locations.

Still I have to make a connection to the top of the 4 angle brackets at their tops so they are more stable, that will be done soon with the seat post clamps that are able to be spread out and connection to the seat post tube, but lower down below the one that is at top intended for the seat post clamp.

You won't see the 3rd belt going to the rear drive pulley in some pictures since walking the bike with will try to turn the clutch bell through all the belts and pulleys. 44 times the bell goes round for the rear wheel once and it is a drag!

MT

PS I did get the pulley on one that has the belt from top to bottom jack shaft very short legnth snugged up right. As I thought, I could take and switch to a smaller pulley in place by are hair smaller, then be able to take a link out of the Link Section Belt and I was right it worked. It is really tight and no slipping.

One of the pulleys I bought though I don't know if they will accept a return. First it had the set screw hole at an slight angle and the keyway affected adversely, second it really does not grab the belt as well as a smaller pulley for this same A section belt I use with it. It has greater surface contact with the belt, but slips more. It was under ten dollars from Yard Birds, so not to big a loss in any case.

I will only tighten the belt so much as I know it it way better with the smaller pulley of another brand.

Anyway I will be checking out going to Grainger or Enco online if they too have pullies. I got free shipping on order of over $25 at Enco, and just found that they carry the marking fluid I used in school doing sheet metal, but could not find locally or anywhere else really. They stuff Dykem red and blue layout fluid. Grainger has some items, not all that they ship to store near me for free if not stocked which is nice. Oops I had spelling incorrect, Amazon and many others have Dykem layout fliud!