Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[Tom from Rubicon]

This forum needs an Electrical Engineer. Back in the early 90's I ran a Model Shop for a MIT electrical engineer. He got state funds to design a motor controller. The mule was a 48V golf cart based .EV from the 70's with lead acid batteries..The theory was to pulse the electrical draw cycling power MOSFET's via microprocessor switching to minimize current draw and even the load output.

 

[indian22]

Tom I agree a double E.E. recruiting push needs to be a popular front for the forum! Discovering bits strewn about the landscape is really time consuming yet has some element of reward in the effort. Both the controller and the motor in the Schwinn function (in conjunction) with each other at 48v so there was progress. Since the controller used for testing is going into the Ol' Crow I now need to locate a suitable controller for the Schwinn and not loose the rest of my patience during the process of sorting through the marketing claims, language barriers (feigned at times & actual at other) and much too much YouTube bragadocio; all while attempting to navigate assorted technical verbage reduced, without interpretation, to useless and non traceable acronyms.

Flip a coin?

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

This forum needs an Electrical Engineer. Back in the early 90's I ran a Model Shop for a MIT electrical engineer. He got state funds to design a motor controller. The mule was a 48V golf cart based .EV from the 70's with lead acid batteries..The theory was to pulse the electrical draw cycling power MOSFET's via microprocessor switching to minimize current draw and even the load output.

Tom prototype work is so interesting and pays well with continued funding. So many projects get defunded too early and others shouldn't have been funded to begin with. I hope the work you were involved with worked out well?

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Rear rack, and saddlebags all here today. Time to fab the saddlebag bracket for the rack and get things mounted to the Sportsman Flyer frame.no frame mods required, all just bolt ons. I'm 100 percent satisfied with all of Pat's work that went into the Ol' Crow electruc V-Twin!

Rick C.

 

[sportscarpat]

Rear rack, and saddlebags all here today. Time to fab the saddlebag bracket for the rack and get things mounted to the Sportsman Flyer frame.no frame mods required, all just bolt ons. I'm 100 percent satisfied with all of Pat's work that went into the Ol' Crow electruc V-Twin!

Rick C.

Well thanks, Rick! Sometimes it's the little things. I remember spending hours just on the rear dropout design. Angle of wheel slot, upper bolt holes for racks or fenders, lower holes for drop stands, axle adjuster tabs. Even the disc brake caliper adapter so it travels with the wheel during adjustment. The little things that take so much time....
Pat

 

[fasteddy]

Hi Pat,
It is the little things that take so much time but add so much to the final product and no one sees it but the person designing the product. For the person using the product it all just works well.

Steve.

 

[indian22]

Thank you Pat for tackling the custom large, deep drop loop for me. Then including all you just listed. Plus using my initials in the frame number! Way over what I asked for. This was a super bargain for me Pat as was the saddle, battery tank, handlebars, wheels and drum brakes.

I just used the top stay holes in the axle plate, you mentioned, to mount my rear rack this morning. Saddle bags came in and I'll post photos tomorrow after I get them mounted to the bag support frame which takes all the weight off the leather bag straps.

In all a good day in the shop.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Had a surge of energy and mounted the saddlebags but light was fading sooner than I expected so really bad photo kinda' gives an idea of how they sit.

 

[fasteddy]

Absolutely first rate, Tom.

 

[indian22]

Friday and Saturday were selected for riding the Ol' Crow and showimg her off. Took a few photos but as I'm not at all talented with a camera the results still disappointed. Great fun though.

Bags served for shopping just fine.

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

Friday and Saturday were selected for riding the Ol' Crow and showimg her off. Took a few photos but as I'm not at all talented with a camera the results still disappointed. Great fun though.

Bags served for shopping just fine.

Rick C.

View attachment 111124 View attachment 111125

KOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL! You did just fine, nice bags...........Curt

 

[indian22]

Thanks Curt. This is the forth bike to get leather bags. Finding bags which are in proportion to the frame size was a problem for awhile. Horse and Harley leather just far to large 12"x7.5"x4" is about perfect and will hold 14s x 7p 18650 cell packs if required. I'm just using 36v or 48v 7p packs so lots of room left over 52v or 60v packs would fit.

Hiding the wiring from the motor case to the saddle bags or at least keeping it discreetly veiled is something I'm working on now. Starting with the Schwinn. Photo will help my description. Motor wires run from motor case to bottom of "tool box" and continue through the box to leather tool roll under the saddle and then into the right side saddlebag which will hold both battery and controller. Not much wiring and no plugs exposed.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

So one new controller came in and I managed to just squeeze it in the Ol' Crow "tool box" by trimming the mounting tabs on the aluminum housing. That voids the warranty heh heh and I don't know yet that it functions. I've two that do work and another coming so ...

Also have another motor on the way that I want to try in the Schwinn or something else. I keep forgetting silicon wire of various gauges and colors. I've used quite a lot to this point and mounting components in saddlebags on mid mount motors uses several feet each of three or four wire gauges in 10 to 12 colors. Nice to do it right and avoid several hundred dollars in component loses as one goes through the build.

Like gas engines motors are fun to build bikes around but there is a learning curve around brushless sensored motors and lithium packs and controllers are another world. High perf gas engines aren't simple to design either.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Well the controller is great fot the Ol' Crow or Schwinn if I switch to 48v battery. I'm not going to experiment with any more multivoltage controllers one size fits all switching boxes. I don't trust the specs quoted. After riding the Crow a half hour with a 48v battery and the new controller it was very evident there was a big jump in current and torque. Big change. Speed exactly the same with the same gearing which is what I expected. Low 40's is fine with 48v. and reduction gearing. This is a heavy bike and it now eats hills up. It wasn't horrible before but I'm grinning now.

So I'm at the point of putting oil tank fillers, copper fuel and oil lines on along with a fake Bosh magneto and wiring. Side covers for the motor case and brass fittings as needed. I'm thinking of adding a brass oiler and a headlamp too. Lot of stuff to add more realism to this build. Harley touted their road twins of the era at 40 to 50 mph so this ones speed is in line with that depending on final drive selection. This one is a hoot to ride at 15mph and it pedals really well with out motor assist at about 10mph on the flats. I had a cop challenge me to a race this morning and a serious inquiry about a purchase or trade. That's not going to happen with any of my bikes!

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Another great day for riding so I did. The Ol' Crow has really impressed me so much so that I ordered the exact same power train for the Schwinn Excelsior. 48v 20 amp hr battery same motor and controller. I'll use the 36v battery in the Lil' Red Cranbrook's saddlebag for 40 amp hr total battery capacity...really extend the range.

I'll repeat myself and say that I'm not looking for more speed rather the torque is my actual goal. Increasing the amps and adding the reduction drive the lightweight Schwinn will have great torque and speed should be about the same as the Crow, a bit above 40 mph. If it is any more than that I will use a 44 or 48 tooth final drive, like is on the Crow. I do have a disc front on the Schwinn but a coaster rear. The drums on the Crow really do limit safe riding speeds to 30 or under at most. It takes a lot of room to stop from forty! The Schwinn being a short wheelbase has no business going 40mph to begin with. The Sportsman Flyer is designed for much higher speeds. I just had to have the drums they really look cool though and I'm in charge of how fast I ride! Not as scary a thought as it was 20 years ago.

So things are bouncing along here, just having fun.
More pics to come.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I caught the feed mill scales on today and the Crow weighed 140lbs.

Zero to 30 mph takes a long city block about 120 yards with no pedal assist. That's 5 mph over city limit for vehicles and way over for motorized bikes! The main thing is it really tackles hills and runs cool doing it. No struggles on hills no pedaling necessary. This controller has three speed settings and medium range is fine for everyday riding in town. 44 tooth final sprocket works well. I think 25 mph a good top cruising speed in the country. 15 to 20 mph for longer trips to conserve batteries.

This thing would look great with that hack I'm always going to build...

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

I wish you could stop saying nice things about electric bikes Rick,
I'm getting a inferiority complex.
Oh well, carry on.

 

[indian22]

Tom I'm just as sold on gas engines and am totally bought in to their utility and form. I consider myself a gear head and admire internal combustion engine builds. Much of my YouTube time is still wrapped up in IC content. There isn't a "but" coming I'll instead qualify my statement with an "and" electrics also appeal to me.

I see positives and negatives with both. At this time internal combustion engines are more practical for extended use and putting all the environmental talk to the curb, which occurs during times of war and great upheavals, we depend on carbon based fuel to power our machines. This takes fairly takes politics out of the survival equation along with social justice and all this felt philosophy out of consideration. Aviation kerosine and diesel fuel plus natural gas is still 95% the fuel solution used to survive.

On the less heavy side of life, building bikes for riding around town, electrics serve well enough and pose some nice answers and present some problems too. I like them yet hope I don't come across as an either or proponent of electric over gas, because I'm not. A good motorized bike project can be either gas or electric!

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Down for almost a week,Covid, so no work progess. I did receive the motor and controller.

Later guys.

Rick C.

 

[fasteddy]

Sorry to hear that, Rick. I hope it's a mild case. Even then I had folks tell me it knocks you down hard.

Hoping you get well soon.

Steve.