Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[indian22]

I bit the bullet and bought an ER 40 collet closer for the mill , on it's way, and an ER 40 collet chuck for the lathe which will be shipping at a later date. Tool holding greatly simplified.

I also ordered bearings for the internal throttle I'll be working on, two of which are truly tiny @ 1x3x1mm. Working on the first mock up today without bearings. Concept seems decent but we'll see.

I'll also be starting another reduction gear, with double roller bearings this time, greatly simplifying the reduction sprocket machine work. I will also do one more bottom bracket setup and also simplify the machine work. I'll need better sprockets with decent machine work. The worn sprocket I used on the first one also will be replaced.

Lots of projects coming.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Shopping for bearings and fasteners has been time consuming and tedious. I also ordered some 4x2.5x2mm roller bearings for an option on the internal twist throttle. Again the prototype won't use any bearings, some of the high dollar throttles use one bearing typically, some use none. I plan on having four.

Finding a selection of sprockets for reduction gears seems a fruitless undertaking unless willing to make compromises...thus my use of what I used for sprockets on the first reduction gear. So I'm still searching. Not pressed for time and I know I can make what's availible work just fine, but I'd prefer better options, without cutting my own.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Sprockets, both steel, for the second reduction drive came in and each quite flare on the test plate. These should be quite adequate for my purposes.

Also an assortment of small, sealed bearings arrived. I've not received any bottom bracket/axle parts as yet, but that won't slow things down.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I've a need for a helical pinion and gear set for a project so I'll be needing an index head with plates to accurately cut these. These are for a couple of electric motor, belt primary drives, reduced by sprocket & chain final drive. So just another geared electric motor with a twist.

I plan on spending the Summer working mostly on e motor sets.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

As in shaft drive, just for fun?

Tom

 

[indian22]

That a BMW early boxer drive layout is a thought Tom.

 

[indian22]

Guys I'm back at the Ol' Crow electric V twin with mods that require both machine work and welding so I not only pulled the motor but also the V twin case. The motor pull I've done multiple times and that's easy and quick. I hadn't removed the motor case before. Turns out it's easy and fast as well.

If you recall I originally built a jack shaft in the motor case and it's worked well, but the design did not allow enough gear reduction to suit me. Servicing the jack shaft wasn't easy either. So I built a true reduction sprocket mounted to the pedal bottom bracket axle. Sprockets are 13 t motor to 28t & 14t (reduction) to 44 tooth rear. My 3" wide by 26" Vee tires stand 27.75" tall with 60 lbs of pressure. The final chain lines perfectly as does the pedal chain but the primary chain is more than 2" off with the reduction bracket installed and I can't just move the motor housing over that far so the e motor itself has to be offset that much. Since I have several motors of 72v and 48v which I can switch out I have to have a mount which can allow a quick swap, like before. I modified the case this morning and will weld a bracket on tomorrow. Of course the case will need some cosmetic changes to retain a vintage look. For now I'm concentrating on getting the primary chain line perfect and securing the brushless motor in the motor housing. Frame mounts remain exactly the same as they have worked perfectly so far.

Instead of the 72v setup I'm using a 48v and bumping the amps to gain power. I'm using a 65 to 110 amp continuous which can be programmed. I had it setup with several different outputs and really liked it at a 5 hp setting with the old gearing.

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Always loved Ol' Crow's faux V-twin Rick. Fantastic bit of work. I'm thinking a fabricated primary cover is the solution to your offset motor.

 

[indian22]

Thanks Pete and right you are. The opposite side will remain much the same as before. The motor drive side case cover should be a simple fab exercise and actually appear more balanced in overall case width. I plan on having it back together & ridable again next week just using a 60 amp controller setting 3,000 watt which is about 4hp output @48v motor is limited to 4,500 rpm at these inputs. If I change to 72v motor speed is maxed out at 6,500 rpm. These simple Hall senor motors really like to cruise at 70 to 80 percent power where they are really efficient. With the 72v motor power 70 percent is too fast for my riding, even on good clincher tires. Ol' Crow could easily mount DOT rated moped wheels and tires, but I like bicycle setups for my use. 4 hp on a 130 lb bike with a light rider can reach pretty good speed with higher gearing. I'll set up for 35 cruise and 45 mph max using 48v but may have to bump the amps to 70 in order to reach these marks with 48v using the reduction gearing. The gearing ratio calculator for small bikes and scooters tell me, in theory, that this setup will go much faster, but that's just on paper and reality is always much slower!

Hope you are back to strength Pete
I can't wait to see how the Ace turns out. I sure enjoyed my Simplex and Harley "Peashooter" builds using 125cc 5 speed engines. Dang sure not easy to mount in bicycle frames though, even loop designs. You've made the Ace look an easy build, but I know better.

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Whether it's an age thing or not Rick, I'm with you regarding speed. On these bikes, 35mph feels like 50. Downhill, 45mph is about all I ever reach, and then very seldom.
This Covid is still taking its toll. Can't seem to get a good lung-full of breath. Bending down has me panting when I stand up again. Out on the Munro yesterday I was grateful for the twist grip throttle. It's pedal set-up is not connected to the e-drive in any way. Pedals are really only there for legal reasons. Which suited me fine - cause pedaling for even a short length of time leaves me gasping at the moment. Yesterday, my feet and legs were only along for the free ride. Need a haircut today. Helmet hair was starting to get out of control yesterday.
Ace build has temporarily stalled due to lack of momentum on my part. All I've done in the last month is replace the gearlever's plastic ball handle with a turned walnut one. Need to gee myself up!

 

[silverbear]

Whether it's an age thing or not Rick, I'm with you regarding speed. On these bikes, 35mph feels like 50. Downhill, 45mph is about all I ever reach, and then very seldom.
This Covid is still taking its toll. Can't seem to get a good lung-full of breath. Bending down has me panting when I stand up again. Out on the Munro yesterday I was grateful for the twist grip throttle. It's pedal set-up is not connected to the e-drive in any way. Pedals are really only there for legal reasons. Which suited me fine - cause pedaling for even a short length of time leaves me gasping at the moment. Yesterday, my feet and legs were only along for the free ride. Need a haircut today. Helmet hair was starting to get out of control yesterday.
Ace build has temporarily stalled due to lack of momentum on my part. All I've done in the last month is replace the gearlever's plastic ball handle with a turned walnut one. Need to gee myself up!

Pete, I’m sorry to hear of your health issues. I’m feeling my age this summer, slowing down a lot and having less ”juice” to work with. So far I’ve dodged covid, an ongoing concern, even in northern Minnesota. Electric tadpole trikes have been fun thanks to pedal assist. Wishing you well, sir…

 

[PeteMcP]

Thanks SB. Not overly worried about my duel with Covid. I'm well on the mend and past the worst of it. Seems these new variants doing the rounds aren't as virulent as the original. Presently there's a massive upsurge in the number of cases here in the UK, but hospital wards here aren't anywhere near being over-stretched with Covid sufferers, unlike last year when they were stretched to capacity. I just treated this as I would a bad case of flu. I'll get over it soon enough. Just hope I'm not one of the unlucky ones who've drawn the Long Covid short straw. Envious of your tadpole eTrike. Never ridden one, but they look a heap of fun.

 

[indian22]

I flipped to 75 last month. Feels 74 still. Covid in all it's mutated forms is a strange one for sure. I've not had it and darned sure don't want it!

Pete I don't bounce as I once did so any fall is to be avoided. Decents on high quality pedal bikes at 45 mph have always been exhilarating. Now they actually feel dangerous to me. The same speed when reached on flats seems less fool hardy on a motor bike to me, but aren't. Truth is I enjoy my slow rides more than the quick. Age thing? I'm pretty certain it is. Life has gone by pretty fast to this point so I don't mind slowing some aspects of it down.

Pete you've built some really nice bikes as have so many on this forum. Time well spent too. Ride what you built how you want, while you can. Two wheels or three it's just great to ride.

I do tend to build overpowered bikes but not to ride them fast. Why do we buy cars etc which can double interstate speeds? Most of us don't drive much over posted limits, yet we want to know we could and pay extra for this certainty. Then there's the boasting side of it....

I do pray you quickly regain your strength and health Pete. All your projects will be there when you're able and whose to say they won't benefit from "creative staring" in the meantime?

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Pete, I’m sorry to hear of your health issues. I’m feeling my age this summer, slowing down a lot and having less ”juice” to work with. So far I’ve dodged covid, an ongoing concern, even in northern Minnesota. Electric tadpole trikes have been fun thanks to pedal assist. Wishing you well, sir…

Good to see a post SB and glad your enjoying the Tadpoles. Very beautiful area to ride in. Short riding season compared to Indian Territory though. The electrics really are a blessing to all us senior citizens and the trikes extend our riding adventures when two wheels aren't an advisable option.

You've been an inspiration to forum members in so many ways for so many years and continue to be!

God speed.

Rick C.

 

[curtisfox]

Rick! I agree seems all the good times somewhere, weather political, or corvid, or just plan old age shift. Speed, I remember when I had my monark about 35 mph was tops, enough to stop and smell the roses, or even had to go around the block and take a second look. Not so bad here yet, but in LA you can't even see in the yards. Used to find a lot of treasures that way, and still do when I ride my pedal bike. .........Curt

 

[indian22]

Hi Curtis,

You guys Silverbear, Pat, Steve etc started out repurposing recycled material to build motor bikes. That's pure and creative! You guys share and that instructs snd inspires. I view our hobby as a very healthy lifestyle.

I'm going out to cut steel and weld a little right now.

Rick C.

 

[Oldbiscuit]

Speed, who needs it ?! In my younger years I had plenty of motorcycles. I used to trail ride, hill climb, moto-cross, and street/road bikes. I sold everything when I got married in 78, with the understanding from my wife that later in life when the house was paid for and we were caught up on all our bills and we had a nice nest egg saved up, I could get me a Harley road bike. True to her word , she told me a few years back to get my Harley if I wanted it, but… now that I can, I don’t trust my reflexes enough to actually ride one. So I’ll stay with my peddle and gas powered bicycles. I agree it’s time in life to slow down and enjoy the scenery!!

 

[indian22]

The e motor is mounted in it's new case position. I'll mount it to the frame and chain it up Monday and ride it for a few days of testing before I fab a new cover plate and reinstall the opposite side plate. Easier to make adjustments with both side plates off.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Well fellows it's Monday and Ol' Crow is still chainless. I keep finding things to do. The twin cylinders top to frame mount needed a redo for strength. I machined some large spacers for motor mount stand offs and they look better than temporary stacks of washers to gain case alignment.

We are hot here in Indian Territory tomorrow's forecast is for cloudy and 113 degress. I hope the clouds keep us covered or 120 is a real possibility.

I plan on long siestas today and tomorrow and work early morning 2:00 a.m. or so till miday.

At this point the motor and case are ready to mount to the frame and secondary chain can be installed too. Then primary chain can be added and line them all up. Reconnect the electricals and ride. So I'm close.

No case covers at this time in case I have to work on the e motor.

The gearing calculator I use shows my reduction gear to slow the motor speed from 4500rpm to 2250 rpm at the jack shaft and the 12 tooth to 44 tooth final chain and 27.75" rear tire height to theoretically yield 55 mph. I was hoping for this to be 45mph max for 30 to 35 mph cruising with good torque. We will see and I may be reducing the rpm with a different set of sprockets on the reduction drive.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

You have in your last post delineated why I am ever so glad to not live in Oklahoma. I can sing every verse.
With a fringe on top and Mona could never say no. If you get my drift.
At least yer trying. 2AM? Holy wah!

Tom