Indian Hiawatha

[silverbear]

Behind the driver seat rack is also from a Hiawatha from a different year than the fenders…. 1950’s I’d guess. Fender is 1939. Still, not a lot of Hiawatha and even less Indian… just the reproduction head badge. Some a this and some a that, but it is “in the spirit of” and one of a kind. And that’s just fine with me.
SB

 

[fasteddy]

Tom, Sorry I gave you the short answer. Yes, as soon as I saw a side view of the tri car with a seat on it my first reaction was if anyone stepped on the foot rest to get into it without a operator on the bike seat the rear end was going up like an angry Missouri mule.

Tri Cars made in the U.K. and Europe usually had a car like frame and often had four wheels. Many with a steering wheel. The tri cars here were more of an after thought that were added to motorcycles not built with that purpose in mind.

Every photo I saw from here had a rider and a passenger and never just the passenger. I'm sure that was the reason why. In my case once Mr. Plush Bottom gets on the bike seat everything with be well as far as counter balancing the passenger goes.

I'm hoping that Mona is doing well.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

I always felt you were better off building the Hiawatha because you didn't need to follow an identifying feature in an already built bike like I had to do with the Indian. The only different part of the Hiawatha bicycle are the fender struts. They never made a tri car.

If we can get those as close to correct the bike will be great. Like the Camel Back gas tank on the Indian as an identifying feature it really could be any bike without the tank or the Hiawatha without the fancy struts is just a bike like all the others. It would be fun to show the Hiawatha on Rat Rod Bikes with a build story. That would get them asking what happened and how it happened. If it looks like we hacked up a real Hiawatha at first glance even better.

The measure from front to back along the top of the curve would be great. The fenders that I have duck tails so those will have to go and the fenders reshaped like the front.

I don't think we ever bought brakes for it. Mechanical will work fine I'm sure. You will need a dual pull brake lever to operate both sides at once.

I'm going to make a full set of fenders. Save the old one for someone restoring a bike.

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

The single front fender I have will be saved for when it is in two wheel mode.

Curt, that’s a good idea to make a tracing of the fender profile to get the curve right. It would also show just where the struts attach to the fender.

Was thinking about that fender ornament in the night….it would look good, wouldn’t it? But hard to justify spending that much when there are more expenditures yet before this is done. No, I have not kept an account of what has been spent thus far. I don’t want to know.

Yes, I’d need a double pull brake lever. I’d rather not though since the levers I have are oldish looking and longer than most bike brake levers. I don’t know where I got them as they might have been from a light motorcycle or moped. The other lever is already needed for the clutch and they are mates. Any bright ideas? How do hydraulic disc brakes work? Would a single pull work with that setup? If so then I’ll look at hydraulic calipers.

Yes, Tom, you sure are right about the center of gravity. I thought about that, too. One sure way to find out…and then never do that again. Having more eyes on this project and suggestions is good. How’s your winter down there in the banana belt of Wisconsin? About like Curt’s I would imagine.

And Steve I do remember now your speaking of growing up in Ontario. Whereabouts? Seems to me I heard stories about your grandfather maybe and his running a sawmill up around Rat Portage. Is that right? I’m guessing that would be like muskrat and not city rat. Ha…
SB

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

"Yes, Tom, you sure are right about the center of gravity. I thought about that, too. One sure way to find out…and then never do that again. Having more eyes on this project and suggestions is good. How’s your winter down there in the banana belt of Wisconsin? About like Curt’s I would imagine."

Not exactly banana belt SB last couple of weeks the night temps have been sub zero. Drove past Pike Lake in Hartford yesterday. Must have been a Fish-a-ree, Least twenty cars and trucks on the ice.

Being a canoe builder, Have you given thought to splashing a couple FRP fenders from the original?

Tom

 

[fasteddy]

Silverbear, if you could trace the side profile of the fender showing where the strut meets the fender and the shape of the strut it will make things more accurate and save time. Time isn't the crush I think it is and why not get the best.

Also if you could hold a piece of paper under the front of the fender and trace the curve of of the fenders leading edge. I'll send you an email with my address.

I converted a older style brake lever to a two cable pull. I'll have to look at what I did but it wasn't that hard if memory serves me right. Bought a two cable pull brake and added the two cable front to the chrome lever. I don't remember there being any fancy footwork to make it happen but it was a long time ago. I just traded places with the cable mechanisms I think.

The barrel in the lever handle that normally holds the end of the brake cable is threaded in the dual pull handle so I replaced the original with that piece. A threaded screw goes into the barrel. This holds the piece that pulls both the cables. There is a nose piece in front of that where the outer cables rest against as the brakes are applied. I slide out to the garage today and see what is there for sure.

My Great Grandfather ran the Rat Portage Lumber Company as the general manager. They later moved the head office to Vancouver B.C. in 1909 because Kenora and Northern Minnesota had been logged off. The lure of the old growth forests was the magnet. They had a huge operation here. Virtually a small town that a little bit remains.

My Grand Father, my Father's, Father was the Superintendent of the International Falls Paper Company. Some time before 1923 when they moved to Toronto. I was born in Windsor, Ontario and lived in and around Toronto for years. We moved there when I was five.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

It's 36F and the second day of sea fog is getting worse. House across the street is getting very hard to see.

When you sitting in -30F it's hard to care about Wet Coast problems I understand but here the struggle is real.

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

I’ve cut open a grocery bag to do the tracing on and had already planned to trace the front edge of the fender and the back edge as well. Need to locate a bolt to draw the struts together as they would be on an axle before tracing. That should make it pretty close.

Couldn’t resist attaching the fender ornament to increase the temptation to locate a second one. Photo above also shows the riveting of the struts to the fender.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

The fender badge could be replicated by a local Tech College. Either in plastic or metal.
One example.
3D Printing Aluminum – The Ultimate Guide | All3DP Pro
I had a boss 30 years ago foretelling my obsolescence. sob died first. He was right about Moldel Shop Technicians. Lucky I have a big bag of tricks.

Tom

 

[fasteddy]

Let me know how wide the struts are. I think I have 3/8 tubing. The metal supply delivers so I can make up an order and have it sent without going up there.

Really great close ups. Can see the details perfectly.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Great afternoon in the garage today. Looked the Indian over to see just what might be needed and if anything suffered over the now years that I haven't worked on it and reacquainted myself with what I had done.

The dual Brakes were nothing like I remembered them being. I do remember having to search all over AliExpress and the net looking for something that worked with older style levers.

With these the single pull brake piece that the cable went through Is now extra long and the 2 cables are on the ether side of the lever.

Where the single pull cable adjuster was there is now a bolt/screw holding a small piece of square stock with a threaded hole on either end which the adjusters screw into.

The rest operates like normal. I forgot to take my camera down but I'll get photos and see if I can get them to upload. I do have a second one and I'll send it to you when I find it in the piles of parts on the shelves.

Steve.

 

[silverbear]

Thanks for looking in to the dual pull cable setup, Steve. That would solve the problem. No hurry.

I’ve done the tracing so when you send me your postal address I’ll send it off to you. I’ll check the diameter (width) of the struts. Consider not slicing the tubing in half, or just do that at each end for a few inches. Or just flatten both ends. I can’t imagine it would be a simple thing to slice the tubing from one end to the other. I think it would still look right. It’s that neat curve that defines the fender as ”genuine simulated Hiawatha”. I contacted the seller of the repro fender ornament wanting to know if it was made of the same metal as the original. He couldn’t make that assurance, but it is cast aluminum alloy and so is the original one So it’s probably ok. I thought maybeI ’d just make an offer at about half what he’s asking to see if he bites. Seems like even fifty bucks before shipping is a good bit for bike jewelry. At least in my world it is.

Above is the same headlight unit I modified for the 1934 Elgin “Velocipede”. It has the harbor freight bulb unit from a flashlight giving a nice bright beam of light. As a flashlight it used three AA batteries which would be 1.5 x 3 = 4.5 volts. One of the 18650 lithium cells is 3.7 or close to it. When I hooked one up to yet another headlight with the same bulb it was quite bright. Setting up a battery box with two or three cells in parallel would give good battery life between charging I would think, even adding in a tail light & horn maybe.

I’d love to see a current picture of your Indian as it is now, even with stuff stowed around it. No need for a glamor shot sitting out in the sunlight. This is a come as you are party. What do you have left to do on it? I’m part way on the novel sized Indian Tadpole thread but without photos (thanks to fotofugit…. may they rest in bankruptcy) it is hard to follow a picture that doesn’t come up and understand comments on what others once saw in the long ago. What a shame that is. I’m still reading early on in the thread and maybe I’ll run into more recent photos that can actually be seen. Many thanks to the powers that be with this forum for making it so easy to post photos that actually stray put. So easy from my ipad. Anyway, I’m looking forward to your turn at “show and tell”.
SB

 

[curtisfox]

Had this in my saves https://motorbicycling.com/media/albums/project-dual-brake-lever.984/ https://motorbicycling.com/media/base-plate-powdercoated.5194/..........Curt

 

[curtisfox]

 

[fasteddy]

That was the headlight you modified.

Slicing the tubing isn't a lot of trouble usually. Set up a couple of guides that hold the entire piece of tubing in place and feed it through. As long as the tubing is straight and not twisted, the cut will stay in the middle. Bend one and make two.

Worth trying to get the fender ornament at a discount. Most likely there aren't a lot of original ones floating around so he has a solid hold on the market.

I just have to get the Indian running. That will be an outdoor activity by request of the family. Touchy bunch when it comes to exhaust fume wafting through the house. Other than that it's the horn and head lights.

I usually pay by the year with Photobucket but I didn't get a notice this year so maybe they dropped the ball and didn't take it out of PayPal. Hard to imagine as hard up as they must be for money given their fall from lofty heights.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Curt, the photo is what I have on my clutch. Slight differences. Mine uses the cables with the ball ends I believe that sit down in a round hole.

I can imagine that getting the brakes to work together will be fun but we'll see.

Steve.

 

[curtisfox]

I thought I had saved your also, but not finding it now.........Curt

 

[fasteddy]

Curt, I wasn't up to getting into the cold today so I'll try and get a photo tomorrow.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Walt, I was going through the tri car photos and I saw this. Had the front end off the Indian as I was building the work bench and put what I had of the wicker seat for the Hiawatha on it.

Steve.

 

[fasteddy]

Silverbear,
As you requested.

Steve.