Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[indian22]

Why is it that almost all electric vehicles are single speed reduction gear designs? They seems to rely on the great electric torque and high motor speeds to achieve their performance goals. I've read several manufacturers comment that transmissions aren't necessary or even desirable in electric cars. Two pretty good design groups beg to differ. Audi and Porsche both offer a transmission on at least one electric model & Bosh has a special CVT for electrics available for sale.

Now a lot of guys run a c.v.t. like the Comet on industrial motors, Predator 212 and such, which seem to work fine with just stock hp. So if 5.5 hp works well with a gas engine why not an electric? Both have to contend with drive train losses. More h.p. from either a gas or electric motor, up to the c.v.t. design limit should benefit the performance of either. Other than transmission losses for either motor type I can't see anything but benefits for all around riding, or driving. Higher cost yes, yet in reality not a lot for even a real Comet drive on a bike frame. There would be some cost in fabrication of transmission and motor mounts as well.


What I'm not seeing here is why not? Or is it just that I've listened to so much marketing hype that I've been sold a concept that is fundamentally flawed?

Comment freely please and those currently running gas bikes with c.v.t. drives let us know what you think of them. I have a new Comet clone drive that I mounted on a 99cc Lifan that didn't have the power to work well (3hp) and an electric d.c. brushless that puts out 5hp continuous on 48v. Peak about 7hp. I wanted some comments from the forum before machining the parts for a test setup on the bench. Talk me out of it please as I have so many projects already!

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

I lost every dad blasted thing I wrote! Screw tranys DD is if managed well the way
Tom

 

[indian22]

Thanks Tom & sorry you lost the post. It happens to me at times and it's annoying. I intend to keep using reduction as it's vintage, simple and works well for my riding style with either gas or electric. I suppose the contratian view of transmission is my interest here. Are cvt's bad on all cars and bikes gas or electric and why. It seems multiple speed transmissions, cvt or other types, have been great on all manner of motor applications for over a century and now the experts tell us they have no utility with electric vehicles? Why has multiple ratios for mechanical advantage become non utilitarian in nature. The math hasn't changed just because the motor characteristics did.

No cvt proponents out there?

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Got it all connected and ready to bench test

Rick C.

 

[PeteMcP]

Having a redundant empty gas tank to help accommodate electrics/battery is something I envy you 'bout.

 

[indian22]

Pete as I've sorted this design the Chinese fuel tank and aluminum straight bar frame seemed a design gift purposed for the small electric V twin motor housing, so yeah. I still have a rear rack and leather saddle bags in my plan. They work brilliantly in several of my other electric projects. Ease of access to the electrics is really great. The controller and small fan can be housed in the tool box. Fuel tank, tool box, rack and saddle bags provide solutions to electronics, only . minimal space required by the Flipsky controller and micro 5v fan Batteries are space hogs however if one is looking for extended rage at times. My daily riding won't require more than the tank battery therefore the bag battery weight can be eliminated except for rides over 25 miles. I do like the look of a rack on vintage bikes.

The motor spins up under remote control so next stem is to machine a reduction gear set for the bottom bracket, which is already completed but yet to be installed as I think it might be too wide and if so I'll cut it down and re taper the J.A.P. spec lever mounting.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Bluetooth receiver throttle/brake module connected to the motor controller and the remote control handset. Not yet decided how to mount the handset to the handle bars. Probably just gut the plastic housing and fab a new mount. The remote housing has a small display screen that shows a load of functions selections and displays speed, amps, battery etc.

Push button switch is an antispark on/off switch.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Shimano has developed a fully automatic rear hub transmission specifically for e bikes and using a belt drive. Getting rid of the tiny bike chain leads me to think this a plus for high torque motors, pedal chain is so weak.

How much power it can handle isn't stated as manufacturers are saddled with euro spec compliance for e bikes. 250 watt is common on very expensive bikes, that translates to 1/3hp, what a joke!

It's in use on their own high dollar bikes, but I've not seen it offered yet as a component.

Big boys seem to think variable speeds on electrics a good idea, just as it is for gas engines.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Old, lazy guy here not been too active with bikes for a few weeks but decided to get in the shop and attend to a few things yesterday and today. I upgraded batteries on my hybrid and eliminated the battery on the down tube and put 2 36v 20 amp hr batteries in leather saddle bags, mounted on the rear rack. In order to do this I had to eliminate the high pipe and go back to the kit style exhaust. Bags/battery next to that high pipe would create to much heat. Carb way too rich now, but I never really liked the look of battery on the down tube or the high pipe. Both worked fine but the look bothered me.

Making up cables and connectors I managed to short a connector, no battery connected, but the capacitors threw a big discharge. I had ridden the bike a day before but it's not uncommon for caps to hold a charge for days and it's high amperage. I just got careless, but was saved by the insulated handle of the screwdriver. I thought there was a chance it fried my controller but no the internals saved it. It's only 20 amps a small controller amperage as these ebikes go, but 20 amps will light you up!

Back to basic safety for me. Quite a jolt first thing back in the shop.



Rick C.

 

[Saddletramp1200]

Hi old guys. I have been riding about every night. The summer heat is too much for me anymore. With the temps getting better I will be harder to find. I love my Lectric XP 2,0. I have over 2000 miles on my Schwinn Point Beach I have a 79cc 4 stroke on. Still ride the 2 strokes also. So many bikes, so little energy.

 

[indian22]

Good to hear your active, heat gets to a lot of us. I get out most days year round but often the rides are only a few miles.

Like you I have lots of bikes 2 & 4 stroke plus several electric and one hybrid. Still working on another electric slowly during the heat not a lot of progress.

Old guy got old ways.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

With the battery relocation, it will be interesting to see how the rear axel holds up or flex's down.
Bent rear axels and I go way back.
Tom

 

[silverbear]

Glad nothing worse happened than a shock to your attention.. Having just gotten all or almost of my electrics together for the winter electric bike projects any mention of shorts, sparks and smoke gets my adrenalin going just thinking about what would happen if I manage to short out a 52 volt lithium battery while assembling it. I know I have to be on high alert at all times when there is any possibility of an inadvertent short or wrong connection.
Long ago in the summer of 1995 I was talking on a landline telephone when on a clear blue sky day lightning struck, traveled through the ground into the phone line and into my left ear. The phone was cooked and so was i… unconscious for several hours with a traumatic brain injury. The damage done in a nanosecond I still live with. Lightning inside your head is not recommended and I’m a lucky fellow having survived that. I have no desire to compare the experience with electric shock. So what kind of craziness would compel an old guy like me to fool with ebike components? Don’t know.
SB

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Old, lazy guy here not been too active with bikes for a few weeks but decided to get in the shop and attend to a few things yesterday and today. I upgraded batteries on my hybrid and eliminated the battery on the down tube and put 2 36v 20 amp hr batteries in leather saddle bags, mounted on the rear rack. In order to do this I had to eliminate the high pipe and go back to the kit style exhaust. Bags/battery next to that high pipe would create to much heat. Carb way too rich now, but I never really liked the look of battery on the down tube or the high pipe. Both worked fine but the look bothered me.

Making up cables and connectors I managed to short a connector, no battery connected, but the capacitors threw a big discharge. I had ridden the bike a day before but it's not uncommon for caps to hold a charge for days and it's high amperage. I just got careless, but was saved by the insulated handle of the screwdriver. I thought there was a chance it fried my controller but no the internals saved it. It's only 20 amps a small controller amperage as these ebikes go, but 20 amps will light you up!

Back to basic safety for me. Quite a jolt first thing back in the shop.



Rick C.

Though I did not do that much work on CRT's at work, I had do do some. I was instructed to use a resistor in series with the high voltage probe handle. You know the ones that have the shield of plastic part way down to the tip. Since some designs of equipment have discharge resistors built into the equipment I were to repair, I never saw a spark. I also kept one hand if not behind my back, but off to the side. Some of the capacitors today have come down in price for 1 farad and above. They are magnitudes of more storage and require extra safety measures.

Well I guess you were quite awake after that mishap! Very glad things were still OK.

 

[indian22]

With the battery relocation, it will be interesting to see how the rear axel holds up or flex's down.
Bent rear axels and I go way back.
Tom

Hi Tom yeah the two packs only weigh 16 lb total. This bike has a 12mm cycle style axle and it's a billet hub with sealed bearings all custom stuff with disc brake rotor and sprocket all machined into the hub & 10ga stainless spokes really a robust setup I ordered through Ghetto. All top notch quality that absolutely was straight bolt on.

That said you might remember that this hybrid has my 5" axle drop extensions that were installed earlier and I made those with 12mm drop slots. 5" increase in wheelbase really improved straight line stability at higher speed.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Glad nothing worse happened than a shock to your attention.. Having just gotten all or almost of my electrics together for the winter electric bike projects any mention of shorts, sparks and smoke gets my adrenalin going just thinking about what would happen if I manage to short out a 52 volt lithium battery while assembling it. I know I have to be on high alert at all times when there is any possibility of an inadvertent short or wrong connection.
Long ago in the summer of 1995 I was talking on a landline telephone when on a clear blue sky day lightning struck, traveled through the ground into the phone line and into my left ear. The phone was cooked and so was i… unconscious for several hours with a traumatic brain injury. The damage done in a nanosecond I still live with. Lightning inside your head is not recommended and I’m a lucky fellow having survived that. I have no desire to compare the experience with electric shock. So what kind of craziness would compel an old guy like me to fool with ebike components? Don’t know.
SB

Hey SB wow that's hard to comment on so I won't. I certainly understand your respect for electricity after that occurred. I was certainly ashamed that I caused a short and was well aware that the controller was probably still hot. I intend to upgrade that controller to 30 amps because it has shut down when I really needed all it had to get out of harm's way. I ride a lot using the electric only in town and it only puts out 750 watts about 1 horsepower so acceleration isn't that great, but 99percent of the time it's fine. The CG 66cc makes about 5hp so got power if needed but not quick enough to get out of harm's way on electric. If it were a geared hub the story would be different but this is direct drive.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Though I did not do that much work on CRT's at work, I had do do some. I was instructed to use a resistor in series with the high voltage probe handle. You know the ones that have the shield of plastic part way down to the tip. Since some designs of equipment have discharge resistors built into the equipment I were to repair, I never saw a spark. I also kept one hand if not behind my back, but off to the side. Some of the capacitors today have come down in price for 1 farad and above. They are magnitudes of more storage and require extra safety measures.

Well I guess you were quite awake after that mishap! Very glad things were still OK.

Thanks and oh my yes I was wide eyed and pumped!

I had an 300 amp inverter power supply welder that powered a spool gun or a suitcase mig wire feeder and it had a special resistor tool and explicit procedure for discharging the enormous caps. Those were dangerous even after setting a week with no power up. If the case came off the caps were bled no exceptions. So yeah no excuses my fault though I got away with it one time with a warning.

I rode the bike about thirty minutes this afternoon and all was well so no damage to me or the controller.

Rick C.

 

[EZL]

Old, lazy guy here not been too active with bikes for a few weeks but decided to get in the shop and attend to a few things yesterday and today. I upgraded batteries on my hybrid and eliminated the battery on the down tube and put 2 36v 20 amp hr batteries in leather saddle bags, mounted on the rear rack. In order to do this I had to eliminate the high pipe and go back to the kit style exhaust. Bags/battery next to that high pipe would create to much heat. Carb way too rich now, but I never really liked the look of battery on the down tube or the high pipe. Both worked fine but the look bothered me.

Making up cables and connectors I managed to short a connector, no battery connected, but the capacitors threw a big discharge. I had ridden the bike a day before but it's not uncommon for caps to hold a charge for days and it's high amperage. I just got careless, but was saved by the insulated handle of the screwdriver. I thought there was a chance it fried my controller but no the internals saved it. It's only 20 amps a small controller amperage as these ebikes go, but 20 amps will light you up!

Back to basic safety for me. Quite a jolt first thing back in the shop.



Rick C.

Make a good spot welder! That's why working on microwave ovens can be dangerous including high powered transmitters, Be Careful!

 

[EZL]

Thanks and oh my yes I was wide eyed and pumped!

I had an 300 amp inverter power supply welder that powered a spool gun or a suitcase mig wire feeder and it had a special resistor tool and explicit procedure for discharging the enormous caps. Those were dangerous even after setting a week with no power up. If the case came off the caps were bled no exceptions. So yeah no excuses my fault though I got away with it one time with a warning.

I rode the bike about thirty minutes this afternoon and all was well so no damage to me or the controller.

Rick C.

Bleeder resistors are used and the only problem with using them is, every time the device is turned on there is a high-in-rush current sent to
the cap(s). A high value supply resistor is used in used around a power relay that supplies current to the cap(s). Some equipment depending
on the application like a HP transmitter used a delay circuit for applying voltage to the caps which bypasses a resistor that is across the relay
contacts. When the delay relay times out the relay contacts close and the caps get the full voltage applied to them without the high inrush current.
A DC supply system is easier to work with versus an AC supply. I am sure the controller has a safeguard circuit built into it for protection.

 

[indian22]

Make a good spot welder! That's why working on microwave ovens can be dangerous including high powered transmitters, Be Careful!

Advice I can take!