Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike

[Tom from Rubicon]

Well Rick, there is the playing card flapping in the spokes thing.
A piece of .5 mm mylar would hold up better than a playing card.
Tom

 

[indian22]

Actually Tom that's not far fetched and we mostly all did this as children. Up dated for my electric vintage motor cases; the rotating e-motor housing (with a bolt on stub) could quite simply replace the rear spokes as a rotating source to engage an internal "flapper" which could be made from a variety of materials and of size, yet to be determined?

Bench test for audio yet to come!

Still just kids at heart.

Rick C.

 

[Nightster]

Actually Tom that's not far fetched and we mostly all did this as children. Up dated for my electric vintage motor cases; the rotating e-motor housing (with a bolt on stub) could quite simply replace the rear spokes as a rotating source to engage an internal "flapper" which could be made from a variety of materials and of size, yet to be determined?

Bench test for audio yet to come!

Still just kids at heart.

Rick C.

Lol cool

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Actually a hall effect switch triggering a power pulse to a speaker. Somebody has most likely thunk it up. Electrical engineer pastime sorta thang. But don't let me stop your flapper project.
Tom

 

[indian22]

Right you are Tom I'll most likely save the audibles till a later date, bit of fun at any rate.

I put in a little time on the rear mount for the case today and fitted the affair for the first time with side plates secured and motor mounts on the case. To say it's a tight fit does not do it justice, yet it's between the tubes! The photos aren't very good. It was raining, dark and the quarters quite cramped. I'll do better later. It's not bolted to the frame or held in with ties or wedges. It is the wedge! This is just the case foundation but the stub exhausts are shown for the first time. I'll change the tube lengths later when I get more stuff on the case. Looks kinda bare just now.

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

It will be interesting to see how three or four threads take the torque loads of those clamp straps.
Finally wet here too. Corn and beans just might make it, barely.
Tom

 

[PeteMcP]

Rick,
That mini-sized controller and the wireless throttle are perfect for your build. Downsizing the controller and minimizing wiring on any e-bike is a huge plus. Concealing electrical hardware and wiring is the biggest pain on these builds.
I'm envious, 'cause right now I'm struggling to keep the wiring on my latest gas-motored build from spoiling the look of things. That new off-the-shelf loom I purchased, sourced from the same bike my donor 125cc motor, was supposed to keep things as simple as possible - but I've done so many mods to it I may as well have wired it from scratch.

 

[indian22]

It will be interesting to see how three or four threads take the torque loads of those clamp straps.
Finally wet here too. Corn and beans just might make it, barely.
Tom

Tom I've used the Harley tube clamps as motor mounts on several of the bikes I shared with the forum, two of these are small motor cycles with well over 10 hp and 5 speed unitized transmissions and with motor weight of about 65 pounds. After almost 5 years of riding my Simplex, on a frequent basis, the mounts have never required tightening. This is true for my Harley "Peashooter" as well as my more recent electric V twin "Old Crow". They stay put that's why I keep using them on my builds. No slip or twist they simply work! The design, for decades, has been proven on HD bikes for attaching all manner of stuff to tube frames, forks and bars including pegs and Harley has many dedicated 350 pound behemoths riding their machine. They use a 3 piece and 5 bolt design which really works without crushing the tube, but in order for them to work properly clamp size has to exactly match the tube size. No inserts used.

Extremely thin wall tube would not be a good candidate for these clamps or for building a motor bicycle with either.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Rick,
That mini-sized controller and the wireless throttle are perfect for your build. Downsizing the controller and minimizing wiring on any e-bike is a huge plus. Concealing electrical hardware and wiring is the biggest pain on these builds.
I'm envious, 'cause right now I'm struggling to keep the wiring on my latest gas-motored build from spoiling the look of things. That new off-the-shelf loom I purchased, sourced from the same bike my donor 125cc motor, was supposed to keep things as simple as possible - but I've done so many mods to it I may as well have wired it from scratch.

Hi Pete I hope you're right about my component selection. These are well reviewed kit for e scooter and e skateboards & I'm hopeful but very little empirical or anecdotal material availible about their use on e bikes.

Sorting cable electrical or otherwise isn't fun for me either yet I don't obsess on a little showing

I'm currently looking at my two CG 125 5 speed bikes, the Harley and Simplex, and thinking of how pleased you will be having chosen to build around a 125cc platform. They are bullet proof and deliver wonderful performance. I prefer the almost stock motor in the Simplex however as I can drop it into third and never shift during town driving. Pulls from dead stop with no problem great torque for such a small displacement motor. Either the OHV or OHC Honda 125cc designs are great, but require a lot of space & frame strength for a successful vintage style build.

Rick C


Rick C

 

[indian22]

Spent a few hours building a saddle support to relocate the leather saddle back over the rear wheel. Think I nailed it. The straight bar frame is really short for taller guys and moving the saddle back 5" really changed the feel of trying to pedal in a phone booth. Some of you remember those and doing crazy things in them when young.

This frame pedals nice as is with the bars in a relaxed position that feels good now.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

Took a short ride & photos. I have plenty of saddle height adjustment but set at this height for pedaling and it was quite easy even on modest climbs. I did avoid the big hills however.

Rick C.

 

[fasteddy]

Trying to pedal in a phone booth.The visuals of that aren't to hard to imagine.

Steve.

 

[indian22]

All the major electrical components are in hand. Motor, controller, remote throttle and brake and lithium battery pack with BMS are here, and the silicon wiring, various connectors etc. are on the way. I'm putting a simple test stand together to secure all for programming. These "live case" motors must be secured or they take off with power connected. The controller, charger and battery all need a solid, non conducting and clean platform for testing as a unit. Also this is just the first of several motors etc. That I'll be working with so a simple stand will get some use.

I mention clean conditions while working with these motors and ferrous metal grit is the worst. The rare earth magnets are like vacuums for steel particles, not good inside the case and just a nuisance on the exterior too. Fasteners and tools glom on to the case also and I don't like my tools magnetized!

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Neodymium magnets are vacuums. One wonders how Tesla manages all the ferrous road grunge. The light just came on as why to have nonferrous faux engine cases.
To

 

[indian22]

Truth Tom. Metal motor housings have to be clean of all metal shavings and coated prior to mounting the motor in the steel case. Aluminum case would solve the problem but I like the look of steel. Still have Lentz law, I think it is, to deal with. It plays havoc with a brushless motor if you mount the metal case sides to close to the motor itself, side plates don't seem to interfere but motor case circumference has to have a couple of inches of air gap.
If you drop a rare earth magnet down the center of an aluminum tube it drops through at a noticeably slower rate, though the tube itself isn't magnetic. I think that is a demonstration of Lenz law?

I don't like synthetic housings in general yet you see them everywhere in the auto and cycle universe. Guess that's why I'm retro Rick.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

I'm thinking. Gimme some time.
Tom

 

[indian22]

The all steel case works fine as a housing on my Old Crow electric V twin with about 3" air gap around the actual motor housing. The smaller motor case for the brushless I'm currently working on has a bit less air gap say a comfortable 2" at this moment I can't predict that's sufficient. As I interpret the severity of the effect on a brushless dc motor it's only noticed under load. Simple workshop tests on the bench won't reveal it.

I'm far enough along that mount and ride is the simplist way to verify the dc motor will properly function in the metal housing.

Shipping update shows electrical hook up components here Monday so I hope all tests out well on the bench next week.

I'm winging it at this point, yet still hopeful that trial will not produce error!

Still just having fun.

Rick C.

 

[indian22]

I've a 3" x 3" cooling fan coming which is powered by the controller & I will use to aid in cooling the speed controller. 3.5v or 5v are both outputs availible. The fan is 5v
It might not be necessary as the heat sink is large but the controller will be enclosed, yet have some small vents. I plan on using two batteries with one in the gas tank & another on the down tube, removable, that can be used for longer rides

I've become quite the fan of rear racks & saddle bags large enough for two more batteries. Setup for the four batteries yield 70 amp hrs. A lot compared to 16 amp hrs typically supplied with commercial e bikes. I already have four 20 amp batteries in leather bags I swap between my rides so I've only one extra battery to purchase and that for the down tube

Rick C.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Speaking of heat sinks. Do you use thermal transfer compound? DOWSIL™ 340 Heat Sink Compound | Dow Inc.
Handy stuff, we had silver paste engineering sample I never used.
Tom

 

[indian22]

No Tom I haven't, but sounds a good idea.
The controller I'm using employs stand offs giving about 5mm of air gap between the board and the finned heat sink. The sink is full board size and makes up at least half of the units thickness.

Since I'm repurposing skateboard and scooter components for this motor case intended for bike frame and large diameter wheels there are several ?? regarding possible outcomes.

I've run the numbers on drive train ratios and though I'd like to try a 13t to 56t I'm quite certain I won't be satifified with it's a bottom end or hill climbing ability. There is also drive train to frame clearance issues when using a direct motor to rear sprocket drive. I think machining a reduction gear 28t and 14t on a 10" axle shaft on the bottom bracket and using the 56t rear sprocket will be my starting point. I have a longer axle made up but think it's too wide for this build. That combination yields 40 mph at relatively relaxed rpm, and well under continuous rated power output for motor, controller and battery cells. Unless I'm really over estimating the suitability of my power train for 26" bike frames, this bike should be able to drive final sprockets sized between 36t and 56t with 56t to 44t giving best all around performance for a wide variety of rider weight and topographic requirements.

One of my initial thoughts prompted buying a remote control for both throttle and brake control was due to the braking ability I saw riders of e scooters and e boards demonstrate. These scoots Iaren't light weight setups always, with some boards scaling upwards of 70 pounds and many riders are well north of 250 lbs Speeds of 35 mph plus are common, yet they really stop well using only motor braking. I plan on having a coaster rear and 160mm disc upfront to start with and hope the motor brake supplies all the rear wheel braking I'll need. Two wheels and three brakes sounds nice to me. This should give a 4 stroke/gearbox feel of real motor braking to the electric and that's a nice secure feel for me. All this braking comes with the price of hard to pedal, but on this bike pedaling is really for show not go.

My thoughts at the moment and it's quite probable that there is error in my plan. If so I can always build another utilizing what doesn't work to design that which will.

Rick C.