Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike
- Thread starter indian22
- Start date
Looking good Rick, Pop corn is ready will be watching...........Curt
Thanks Curtis I've laid out a couple of sticks of 1" heavy wall DOM tube & I'll cut some of that for the basic frame shape today. I'll use the stainless tube fittings to hold that basic frame shape while I'm tack welding braces and gussets in place. The tube fittings will remain & be a part of the completed frame, though the frame strength will be 90% in the welds & bracing.
It's a start and it seems that has been the hard part to this point!
Rick C.
It's a start and it seems that has been the hard part to this point!
Rick C.
Sorta like your painting, took a while to get started, but once going not long to get done..........Curt
Curt what can I say when you're right you're right.
Main car frame is 60" x24" but that's not including wheel & car to bike hookups which should ad another 16" or so to the width....40" total. Seems pretty wide but I'm not yet seeing where I can shave much width off. The Simplex is stretched to 53" so 60 " length seems proportionate. The car frame height will end up at 3,5" to 4" about the same ground clearance as the bike & the car wheel will be an 18" or 21". I want the top of the car body lower than the 26" tires on the bike. I'm going for a low center of gravity and a race look. Car axle will need to be located 5 to 7 inches higher than the frame.
I got the rear brake lever completed and mounted this afternoon....photos to follow.
Main car frame is 60" x24" but that's not including wheel & car to bike hookups which should ad another 16" or so to the width....40" total. Seems pretty wide but I'm not yet seeing where I can shave much width off. The Simplex is stretched to 53" so 60 " length seems proportionate. The car frame height will end up at 3,5" to 4" about the same ground clearance as the bike & the car wheel will be an 18" or 21". I want the top of the car body lower than the 26" tires on the bike. I'm going for a low center of gravity and a race look. Car axle will need to be located 5 to 7 inches higher than the frame.
I got the rear brake lever completed and mounted this afternoon....photos to follow.
I tried making an outfit a long time ago without knowing important facts, causing me to give up. The bike has to lean away from the sidecar a bit to cause the steering to counter the sidecar drag; this is also compensated for by having the sidecar wheel toed in a few degrees. Check with US sidecar sites for what works best. The degrees etc for Britain are for our often heavily cambered roads.
Right you are Ludwig & I appreciate the input. I've spent the last couple of years reading up on rigs, but now that I'm at it I'll need to review my material at critical points along the way. Hands on experience, as I've stated, is almost zero with sidecars. I've weights to add for loaded testing (nothing to do with adult beverages) & also there's conducting with the car empty to consider. Is it any wonder I want the bike itself sorted properly before attaching the third wheel and all that implies?
What I have in mind is an adjustable mount & wheel design to allow a simple way to adjust the attitude and toe in during testing; then when the sweet spot is established lock it in. Even though I don't plan on ever cruising at highway speeds I'd like it to handle properly & therefore safely. Is a safe side car an oxymoron? Or is it just me that's a moron for wanting a side car?
Rick C.
What I have in mind is an adjustable mount & wheel design to allow a simple way to adjust the attitude and toe in during testing; then when the sweet spot is established lock it in. Even though I don't plan on ever cruising at highway speeds I'd like it to handle properly & therefore safely. Is a safe side car an oxymoron? Or is it just me that's a moron for wanting a side car?
Rick C.
I think there would be a lot more if they knew how to do them. Same reason you don't see home brew bike with non kit engines. ..........Curt
Hi Rick,
Here is a link to the sidecar building on Adventure Rider. I found it in the Bikes section of the forum.
Steve.
https://advrider.com/f/threads/sidecar-design-formula-important.468196/
Here is a link to the sidecar building on Adventure Rider. I found it in the Bikes section of the forum.
Steve.
https://advrider.com/f/threads/sidecar-design-formula-important.468196/
Curt you are I feel correct & not just when applied to side cars.
I frequent a coffee shop located on a heavily traveled highway & management allows me to park on the wide walkway & just a few feet from the door. A lot of travelers express interest in my bikes & I overheard one of the wait staff explain my Simplex build as a "kit bike" that I'd ordered on the internet. Latter the travelers, a husband & wife sought me out to discuss the Simplex...neither had bought the kit bike explanation in the least & we shared a chuckle and then a nice conversation about bikes. I don't look down on kit assembled bikes on the contrary that's how many come to this hobby & that's a positive thing. For most of these assemblers it's one and done fun, but some get hooked and continue to build and of those a very few, percentage wise start to build "one offs"....
We are blessed to see so many varied builds across this forum and others, plus the You tube videos etc. I still enjoy my "kit engine" based builds & ride them frequently, though I admit to a bit of snobbish attraction to those scratch built creations with engines repurposed for our hobby transports. I hope we all encourage others to create at whatever level of life circumstance they find themselves in. Getting started is the hard part for most & excuses are plentiful....this from personal experience!
Rick C.
So true, back in my day either had to by ( like Whizzer or Monark ), if not build your own. Some really smart guys out there, weather kit or home build...............Curt
Thanks Steve this is great and timely info that puts a lot of information on rig setup in one compact read.
8:30 here & beautiful Fall morning so best leave the computer and go to it. Rick C.
On sidecars, I have come to the conclusion that there is no magical formula. Read, keep notes, design and be prepared to adjust the outside wheel location and camber. Everyone will have to find their own sweet spot so that they get the best and safest ride for them.
Well put dog catcher & to that point I plan a mount/frame that has initial adjustability for testing and tweaking & testing with and without weight in the car. The documented work of others will no doubt get me in the ball park range. The bike won't be the subject of change at all I want the solo bike to retain it's current ride feel when ridden solo. I feature the car primarily as a conveyance for a Lab puppy that is definitely in my future, but built large enough for a moderate size individual to use as well. The interior will be Spartan because I want it to be dog friendly and not concerned about claw and tooth damage. Cushion seats will be removable for human comfort, the dog is in it for the joy of the ride ...a real purist at heart! This will be a town & country rig not to be used on highways,and this allows me a bit of leeway, design wise, not in order to avoid sound setup, but in actual use holding to moderate speed does allow a greater range of safety.
I've only had one real ride & drive experience with a well setup motorcycle rig and it was interesting and informative to feel the strange sensations of the forces at work with the outrigged third wheel, fixed rig hack and this on a mid size cruiser, 6 to 7 hundred pounds without the car. My Simplex, solo, is a mere 180 lbs. at this point & I'm hoping to keep the car well under 100 lbs. with a quite low center of gravity. My weight has remained pretty constant for the last thirty years or so at just under 180, so I believe my bikes loaded center of balance an easy calculation. I've a 24 hour certified vehicle scales located just 3 city blocks from my house so weights are exact & not estimates. I've also a couple of hundred pounds of loose weights available to be used for testing the car loaded.
The hack will run an 18" D.O.T. certified wheel and & 2.5" wide moped tire. It's setup for a standard bicycle disc rotor.
The kayak donor shell is lightweight & will be chopped to an approximate 6 foot length. & total height for the side car will be about equal to the mounted tires height which is just about 23". Car ground clearance is in the 4" range. I'll include a sturdy hand rail fore and aft to assist in mounting & dismounting the car. No problem for the dog but I feature human riders to be quite young and flexible...mostly female. Now you see the old dog planning ahead! The kayak plastic is quite study but the handrail design will protect from any eventual cracks developing. I do have plans for a bracket to mount a spare wheel and tire to the rear of the car as well.
I'm quite certain the upgraded CG 125 engine has enough power to pull the extra weight. My only real concern is that by going to the small rear sprocket used to clear the current rear disc brake setup I've not enough gear reduction to propel the additional rig weight. If this proves to be a problem I'll machine a more aggressive primary gear reduction cluster to lower the final drive ratio.
So there's my updated plan to this point and as usual I expect changes to occur along the way. I'd really like to have this ready for my puppy this Spring. The car really is mostly about the dog at this point. I'm over (mostly) my mourning the loss of my last black Lab 7 years ago, so the puppy is in my future as I really miss my canine companion.
Rick C.
This one has the general size, shape & profile I'm shooting for but with a much lower ground clearance, overall rig height & smaller wheel size. While the '50's era trials rig has the grab bar concept, but the car's mounted on the wrong side. I'll consider running a fender on the car as well...undecided as yet.
Both these rigs are awesome, Ludwig. I don't remember seeing the Norton combination before.