Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike
- Thread starter indian22
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Here is an idea to look at, his following the engineering principles does not apply, but his construction might give you and others some ideas. http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/index.php?threads/led-sled-sidecar-project.26096/
Thanks for sharing this really nice build and thread. I also will be using motorcycle tube clamps for frame connection, but not bar clamps. There was one photo of the Steve McQueen 1919 Indian Daytona mounted with a Flexicar and this is actually the basic size and stance I'm shooting for, but with a much smaller wheel on the car. I also want the frame close to the ground like this builder set his up, but I like the shell height much shorter...top of the car below the height of the wheels.
Rick C.
I remember Anne posting in the sidecar thread that she greatly favored leaf spring forks for sidecar rigs & that Ludwigs 25%of wheelbase was golden for wheel lead and this is what I intend to start with. This and that experiment on the toe in and lean out on the bike.
Rick C.
Rick C.
Springing for the sidecar body may be needed. A sprung wheel might do the job, or the body can be mounted on leaf or C springs. I don't know what would be the best option, but a lightweight trailer wheel assembly is the way I'd do it. However, would the spring rating be low enough for the job?
Old style English BSA reversed.
Full article with pics of remade springs.
https://sites.google.com/site/bsa2247sidecar/home/restoration
Full article with pics of remade springs.
https://sites.google.com/site/bsa2247sidecar/home/restoration
Possibly more appropriate for an American outfit, a page on the Goulding sidecar. There is also a fitting and alignment guide.
http://www.gouldingsidecars.com/Chassis.html
http://www.gouldingsidecars.com/Chassis.html
I'm going to stop now before itbecomes a career. A historical view:
https://occhiolungo.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/wicker-sidecars/
https://occhiolungo.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/wicker-sidecars/
Before you go Ludwig, I'd been planning an air/shock combination setup to spring the car wheel, but both Curtis & yourself have mentioned using trailer hub suspension. I'm seriously thinking a right hand (passenger side U.S) half axle torsion spring setup would be pretty trick, especially if it were mounted on a sturdy pedestal & upside down. This would permit the low chassis height I'm looking for. I've a supplier who will supply me with whatever rating required over 250Lbs. with hub less swing arm. I won't require the hub since I'm running moped hub & brake assembly.
A clearer explanation of mounting the torsion spring assembly in the manner previously described might clarify things a bit. Normally a torsion suspension is mounted under frame with the torsion swing arm under no load at an angle of about 45 degrees. This setup increases the ride height which I don't want. By using a 4" square steel tube for a riser, cut to whatever length is required I can obtain the desired ride height of the frame. The torsion bar has to retain the same attitude as it would be in mounted under the frame in order to function, therefore the square tube riser will need to be notched to fit up the torsion spring half axle. A 3/16" plate, also notched, welded on top of the riser & drilled to match the 3" center, 4 bolt pattern of the spring assembly locks it all in place. Pretty simple to add a slip plate setup for adjusting toe in at the base of the riser.
My plan is to spring the rear of the car using 2 half length utility leaf springs. Buy one and cut in half, like I did with the leaf fork setup my Simplex is running. I'll simply pivot the front of the shell on Oilite bushings. With the leaf springs located outboard of the body shell, the body's ride height can be kept minimal.
Thanks for all the input & please continue with more. Rick C.
Here is another good thread about a sidecar. http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/index.php?threads/when-a-crazy-idea-becomes-reality.101557/
You will want more shop tools, lots more tools....
You will want more shop tools, lots more tools....
Really nice fab skills and shop, but I've only just sold my own machine shop & frankly don't want much more than hand tools at this stage of life. I've still a key & permission to use the shop day or night but other than visits I've not had the urge to set my hand to any of the machines.
Rick C.
Rick C.
Cut & assembled the basic frame work for the hack. !" d.o.m. tube with stainless tube couplers. These allow me to experiment with different layouts and tube positioning without cutting welds loose each time I'd like to see a change.
Cross braces are 18" but may end up using longer, like I said easy to change with the s.s. couplers.
I ordered the torsion spring axle without a hub and a new utility trailer leaf spring for the car shell as well, same spring rate I used to build the leaf spring fork on the Simplex. So this will be a sprung body as well as springing the car wheel.
It's a start! Rick C.
Cross braces are 18" but may end up using longer, like I said easy to change with the s.s. couplers.
I ordered the torsion spring axle without a hub and a new utility trailer leaf spring for the car shell as well, same spring rate I used to build the leaf spring fork on the Simplex. So this will be a sprung body as well as springing the car wheel.
It's a start! Rick C.
I have an additional wheel and tire to mount on the back as a spare. Both have hubs drilled for mounting disc rotors. So the car wheel will be equipped with a disk brake, foot operated brake pedal mounted on the car frame.
Kayak body is approximately 26" in width, 16" in height and length 6' to 6-1/2'. With 4" ground clearance on the car frame the total rig height shouldn't total much more than 22". Adults will need to be very limber to get in & especially to get out, but the grab bars should help. Easy mount for a Lab though!
Bike wheelbase is 53". and I'd like the car shell to not extend past the rear or front wheel so 6 & 1/2' length at most...
Outside width looks to be about four ft. from bike frame to out side of wheel hub; Primary reason is the kick starter has to clear the shell body & the wheel torsion spring requires 8" extra before adding the wheel. Not knowing if this is an abnormal amount of stick out for a rig or not, but it's 8" wider than I'd estimated earlier.
I should have the both the leaf spring & the torsion spring in hand ten days from now. I've also narrowed my kayak donor shell down to three choices, all 8 footers. Though I found one 10 foot that could be easily cut to fill the bill. It's 4" wider though. I'm really not in a hurry on the Kayak shell 'cause last year they were discounted significantly after the holiday season.
I've considered this particular project for more than two years now and feel that it's going to be lots of fun putting the pieces together and scary as **** testing the beast...The alligator gar car may take more than a few bites out of the Old guy!
Rick C.
Kayak body is approximately 26" in width, 16" in height and length 6' to 6-1/2'. With 4" ground clearance on the car frame the total rig height shouldn't total much more than 22". Adults will need to be very limber to get in & especially to get out, but the grab bars should help. Easy mount for a Lab though!
Bike wheelbase is 53". and I'd like the car shell to not extend past the rear or front wheel so 6 & 1/2' length at most...
Outside width looks to be about four ft. from bike frame to out side of wheel hub; Primary reason is the kick starter has to clear the shell body & the wheel torsion spring requires 8" extra before adding the wheel. Not knowing if this is an abnormal amount of stick out for a rig or not, but it's 8" wider than I'd estimated earlier.
I should have the both the leaf spring & the torsion spring in hand ten days from now. I've also narrowed my kayak donor shell down to three choices, all 8 footers. Though I found one 10 foot that could be easily cut to fill the bill. It's 4" wider though. I'm really not in a hurry on the Kayak shell 'cause last year they were discounted significantly after the holiday season.
I've considered this particular project for more than two years now and feel that it's going to be lots of fun putting the pieces together and scary as **** testing the beast...The alligator gar car may take more than a few bites out of the Old guy!
Rick C.
The torsion and leaf springs will have different rates and periodicity of response, which will be good for the passenger and outfit. I've seen things fall apart when resonances coincided.
The sdecar wheel brake is something to have, and then decide if you want to do away with it. Most hard core sidecar users I've met feel it's not a great help; however you have only a small disc on the bike front end, so it may be invaluable. Experience will tell.
Your up late Ludwig. This is good insight sir and I'm hoping it's an aid to keeping the plastic kayak body intact. I will be reinforcing the shell with some marine grade plywood, plastic resin & cloth at the high stress points, I feel that a real challenge in this build is to prevent the hull from cracking in multiple locations. Springing correctly is one factor to avoid damage & effective mounting of the shell another.
I like the coupling of the old school leaf springs with the torsion spring not only for the reasons you've mentioned but also they visually contrast well & are so uncomplicated in nature. I may eventually have to add some rebound control on the wheel, but for now I'm kinda' keeping it simple.
What do you favor for toe in on a small road rig? Bike lean 1 to 2 degrees away from the rig; all as a staring point setup?
Also what's your read on weight proportion between bike and hack, loaded and unloaded?
Rick C.
I'm mixed on the car brake, but yeah I'll try it out, but may not like it. I grew up utilizing turn brakes on field tractors & know how dramatic the effects are on super heavy slow moving implements. On a light rig a heavy brake & perhaps any brake at all can cause dramatic, read that deadly, consequences. I'm determined to test the outside brake with great caution during all braking...not just in turns to the right!!
I now have a disc brake also on the rear of the Simplex.
Rick C.
I now have a disc brake also on the rear of the Simplex.
Rick C.
We worked on about 1" toe in on the racing outfits, but with a highly mobile passenger and the sidecar platform weighing so little, it may not be the most appropriate measurement for you with even a lightweight body and fixed payload.
From the Goulding page, looking at the weights involved, I'd probably take their measurements as a starting point. Saying the wrong thing to you could get you hurt. I can only offer the advice in Britain's Highway Code booklet about what to do when the light turns green. Proceed with caution.
Edit: I do suggest a fixed mounting point on the chassis for removable ballast. Start off heavy when learning how the cockeyed contraption behaves and you wire your refexes in, and then reduce until you're just the wrong side of happy with it. Too light and it becomes Interesting.
From the Goulding page, looking at the weights involved, I'd probably take their measurements as a starting point. Saying the wrong thing to you could get you hurt. I can only offer the advice in Britain's Highway Code booklet about what to do when the light turns green. Proceed with caution.
Edit: I do suggest a fixed mounting point on the chassis for removable ballast. Start off heavy when learning how the cockeyed contraption behaves and you wire your refexes in, and then reduce until you're just the wrong side of happy with it. Too light and it becomes Interesting.