Confess I've heard the term but not a clue to the design. I just picked my jaw off the floor...what an incredibly beautiful and yet all business Triumph racer! My favorite all time personal bike was a 1965 Bonneville. Unfortunately I flipped it one cold winter's eve 1967 at an estimated, by state police, 100+ mph, rolled it in a small ball I did and have mourned it's loss to this day, and yes a touch of the Irish (both beverage and luck) was involved. Rick C.
Old Guys Simplex moto-peddle bike
- Thread starter indian22
- Start date
Sounds a good plan Steve. I've used foam, glass & resin covered with a skin of bonded metal. Works pretty good with an aluminum frame for complex shapes requiring a good deal of strength...pretty too. Sticky is great. Remember I know nothing about the subject. I'm kinda hung up on the articulated car concept. Seems having the car wheel lean in direction and magnitude of the bikes attitude would be a great aid in the turns. Straight line wheel alignment might be a tad hard to maintain.
Engine is a Hensim I believe, but that really wasn't clarified. Taiwan company that made my Simplex motor as well. Looks to be the same.
If I built a drop loop it would just be a copy of Pat's so I gain nothing by taking the time to build it. Quite different from the Copper gator. I had to build the frame... no out sourcing available! No way I could build the frame for less money either...one offs take a lot of time to do right and I can't justify taking that much time away from work at this time of year. It's just too busy I'd have to wait till the coming winter when business slows down. I'd like to get this one done this summer just working at night. Rick C.
Leaning wheel sidecar. I think they do take a lot of the, you have to steer, out of a sidecars handling. Someone here on the forum built one and it came out wonderfully well.
There are rules to setting up a bike with a sidecar. Bike has to lean to the left a couple of degrees and the sidecar needs a slight toe in and the angle of the forks can be a factor if I recall correctly. There are many sites that will give you information on it and it's worth checking them out.
I think Pat's frames are a great deal for the money. I think he's proven the value by riding them to over 80 miles an hour repeatedly. Not to mention that they are lugged and not butt welded.
Steve.
There are rules to setting up a bike with a sidecar. Bike has to lean to the left a couple of degrees and the sidecar needs a slight toe in and the angle of the forks can be a factor if I recall correctly. There are many sites that will give you information on it and it's worth checking them out.
I think Pat's frames are a great deal for the money. I think he's proven the value by riding them to over 80 miles an hour repeatedly. Not to mention that they are lugged and not butt welded.
Steve.
I was planning a drop loop build before the Simplex landed on my doorstep. Was planning on using the Flyer frame then 15 months later I'm more convinced than ever this is the correct choice. I'll use the same co axle bracket based drive that I built for the Copper Gator, but with less reduction overall. It's quite similar to the reduction drive for the 4 stroke Flyers. I'm a big fan of using the existing bracket as a bearing/axle carrier...already perfectly aligned & solid. I also use the left pedal as a footrest when shifting...had to shorten the length of the pedal arms and lengthen the shift lever peg on the Gator to get it in perfect position but works like a charm now.
All in all looks like a pretty straight forward build, but may have to drop the loop a few inches & or move the down tube a couple inches forward. No big deal but I would rather not have to make major changes to Pat's nice frame.
Photos of the basic Simplex fork I'll be modifying for this build. I'll probably not use the light.
Rick C.
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The old Simplex fork is pretty homely no? I think I can bring them to life, not bent & no cracks or rust, Super heavy duty legs & toggles. Wide enough to mount up to 3.25" tires. I'll stick with 2.5" front and rear. I think they look a bit like HD springer and will match up well with a flat sided tank.
Cg 125 in the Copper Gator is finally loosening up & consistently starts on one kick. No engine vibration. Also the 5 speed is shifting like butter on teflon & is really fun to ride as I'm using all 5 speeds around town, which I didn't think I would. It's really torquey now with a few miles on it! Seems like it's getting good fuel mileage in town as well. Hope to get a few more items completed on it this week. Rick C.
Cg 125 in the Copper Gator is finally loosening up & consistently starts on one kick. No engine vibration. Also the 5 speed is shifting like butter on teflon & is really fun to ride as I'm using all 5 speeds around town, which I didn't think I would. It's really torquey now with a few miles on it! Seems like it's getting good fuel mileage in town as well. Hope to get a few more items completed on it this week. Rick C.
I remember it was coupled to a Silver State frame. FFV8 or something built the hack frame & it looked a good piece of work. Lot of info for sure out there. Does does the science apply to the leaning wheel as well or is it a matter of degrees? Homework but I'm building the bike one way or without the car. The idea of a car just makes me smile. Course bike trailers also make me smile, just not as big. Rick C.
If the forks don't work out Rick here are some from the, some day they'll be handy, vault. I saw these a while ago and book marked them just in case. They come in chrome or plain steel as well.
Great to hear that the Copper Gator is coming into it's own. What more are you going to do to it?
Steve.
http://hbbcinc.com/product/ruff-regulator-fork-black/
Great to hear that the Copper Gator is coming into it's own. What more are you going to do to it?
Steve.
http://hbbcinc.com/product/ruff-regulator-fork-black/
I believe it was FFV8 that built it now you mention it. I'm not sure that you have to build angles into a tilting sidecar. My guess would be that you may be better of building the toe in, in for traveling in a straight line but the fact that the bike tilts would make the slight tilt on the bike a non issue.
There is something about a sidecar that makes a person smile. Even more so if you don't need one. I was messing around with rough plans for the Indian sidecar today and then thought about making another tri car seat as the early sidecars were the same style.
Just seems like cheating in it's own way and then there's the been there, done that factor. Planning, the inexpensive part of the build.
Steve.
There is something about a sidecar that makes a person smile. Even more so if you don't need one. I was messing around with rough plans for the Indian sidecar today and then thought about making another tri car seat as the early sidecars were the same style.
Just seems like cheating in it's own way and then there's the been there, done that factor. Planning, the inexpensive part of the build.
Steve.
Steve there's a point where all that planning results in the check book being utilized. Engine was handed over over to Ups and should arrive early next week. I also ordered a Mikuni round slide and AC CDI with harness, along with shift and start levers. Same basic setup I used with the Copper Gator Simplex.
I'm going to mount Worksman wheels and 2.5" Vee Nola tires to the Simplex when NOLA gets their next shipment. In addition I'm adding some brass here and there to gain a little more contrast. Few other minor tweeks...nothing major.
Right now the side car is a side bar. I've a lot to learn on the subject. Wheel alignment, such as might exist, on an articulated design is of interest. Straight line driving is 90 % of the riding experience here. So a car has to track straight without a fight. Cornering, braking & ride quality are important as well of course.
Articulation of the car wheel it appears to me wouldn't have to be in direct correlation to the input of a riders lean, but rather a ratio between bike and car wheel lean. The exaggerated leaning wheel appearance not being necessary. Damping of the articulated link would also appear beneficial in wheel stability on straight runs and during cornering as well, but I've been wrong before. Building a straight forward fixed wheel car also has that whole simplicity thing going for it as well. I'm mulling and don't expect to build on a car before winter at any rate. I've got two bikes to build first!
The Ruff fork is a good looking piece, but shows as a 1 & 1/8" whereas Pat uses 1" head tube. I showed the Simplex fork cause it's so ugly right now that only a mother could love it, but I plan on making it so pretty & functional as well. They actually ride well & are over built... really strong with wide fork spacing for larger tires if required or desired. The forks will be a project for sure. I've got a plan. Rick C.
I'm going to mount Worksman wheels and 2.5" Vee Nola tires to the Simplex when NOLA gets their next shipment. In addition I'm adding some brass here and there to gain a little more contrast. Few other minor tweeks...nothing major.
Right now the side car is a side bar. I've a lot to learn on the subject. Wheel alignment, such as might exist, on an articulated design is of interest. Straight line driving is 90 % of the riding experience here. So a car has to track straight without a fight. Cornering, braking & ride quality are important as well of course.
Articulation of the car wheel it appears to me wouldn't have to be in direct correlation to the input of a riders lean, but rather a ratio between bike and car wheel lean. The exaggerated leaning wheel appearance not being necessary. Damping of the articulated link would also appear beneficial in wheel stability on straight runs and during cornering as well, but I've been wrong before. Building a straight forward fixed wheel car also has that whole simplicity thing going for it as well. I'm mulling and don't expect to build on a car before winter at any rate. I've got two bikes to build first!
The Ruff fork is a good looking piece, but shows as a 1 & 1/8" whereas Pat uses 1" head tube. I showed the Simplex fork cause it's so ugly right now that only a mother could love it, but I plan on making it so pretty & functional as well. They actually ride well & are over built... really strong with wide fork spacing for larger tires if required or desired. The forks will be a project for sure. I've got a plan. Rick C.
I thought the Simplex fork was a nicely built item Rick, cast axle rockers and all. Not flashy but with that built with that basic functionality that was typical of that era. I'd use them myself if I had them.
Sorry, I forgot that the Ruff forks were 1 1/8" or I wouldn't have mentioned them I wonder who thought this was the new must have size.
I have to finish the tri car and then put the new electric midmotor on the Monark and sidecar before I get to building anything else myself. The sidecar body plans are a time filler until the parts get here and I can finish the tri car and then bring the sidecar in to work on it.
Steve.
Sorry, I forgot that the Ruff forks were 1 1/8" or I wouldn't have mentioned them I wonder who thought this was the new must have size.
I have to finish the tri car and then put the new electric midmotor on the Monark and sidecar before I get to building anything else myself. The sidecar body plans are a time filler until the parts get here and I can finish the tri car and then bring the sidecar in to work on it.
Steve.
Steve you're a busy guy & working on two interesting & complex builds at the same time, but you will eventually have two very sweet and unique vehicles added to the stable. The wait game is a buzz killer at times...key is staying busy on what you can accomplish & dreaming while encouraging others is something we sometimes overlook while just killing time (which is tantamount to committing slow suicide through indifference) I just got back from hospital visiting an old friend who broke a hip. He ended up encouraging me with his great attitude & enthusiasm for getting well and back to an active life. He's 84 years young & 15 years my senior. Riding back home on the Gator was quite nice I decided.
The Simplex steer tube may not be long enough to fit the Flyer. If it does it won't make it by much. No worries I'm still looking for a Simplex frame to put the V twin in & I know the forks will fit that one! I actually don't have a problem using a leaf or dual spring forks on the drop loop frame so it will all turn out. Sometimes doors are closed so that wider ones can open. Keeping my mind open to options at this point & my plans may have to be altered. Rick C.
The Simplex steer tube may not be long enough to fit the Flyer. If it does it won't make it by much. No worries I'm still looking for a Simplex frame to put the V twin in & I know the forks will fit that one! I actually don't have a problem using a leaf or dual spring forks on the drop loop frame so it will all turn out. Sometimes doors are closed so that wider ones can open. Keeping my mind open to options at this point & my plans may have to be altered. Rick C.
I often wonder what makes people like your friend look at life after a debilitating injury like he does. So many people break their hip in advanced years and never regain their health and pass away and others look at it as an inconvenience and recover and move on. I hope he is able to regain his strength and fulfill his dreams.
Wait in for parts is indeed a buzz killer. Can't be helped though and then so often the supplier is waiting for the manufacturer who's waiting for materials or stock to arrive. The only saving grace is that I have the next four projects plans drawn up and available parts ordered.
Hope the simplex forks work. They sure have that Harley feel about them. I saw this ad that I'll post at the bottom. Remember the back pages of the Popular Mechanics when they were still selling WW2 surplus even into the 1960's. This is one of them I'm sure.
Steve.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/surplus-indian-jpg.3196715/
Wait in for parts is indeed a buzz killer. Can't be helped though and then so often the supplier is waiting for the manufacturer who's waiting for materials or stock to arrive. The only saving grace is that I have the next four projects plans drawn up and available parts ordered.
Hope the simplex forks work. They sure have that Harley feel about them. I saw this ad that I'll post at the bottom. Remember the back pages of the Popular Mechanics when they were still selling WW2 surplus even into the 1960's. This is one of them I'm sure.
Steve.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachments/surplus-indian-jpg.3196715/
One of my all time favorite inspirational magazines Steve was "Popular Mechanics & I couldn't even afford the stuff in the back pages, but it was closer to my "dream on" budget range. Military surplus was locally available with a SAC base just 12 miles away & twenty bucks would often buy quite a lot. Old "geezers" of the day rode Indians and Harley...fixers (mostly complete) were often fifty dollars or less in the the late fifties. The cool young guys rode the Brit bikes. Interesting times to grow up in.
I'm actually receiving parts & more on the way. Motor is within 100 miles according to UPS tracking & Mikuni round slide, intake manifold, CDI/Coil, kick & shift levers are already in hand. No tracking info on the frame as yet. All in all starting out ok.
Outdoor car and bike show this weekend but don't think I'll show anything in it. It's a bit early in the year and weather is quite unpredictable here during the spring. Rick C.
Rick C.
I'm actually receiving parts & more on the way. Motor is within 100 miles according to UPS tracking & Mikuni round slide, intake manifold, CDI/Coil, kick & shift levers are already in hand. No tracking info on the frame as yet. All in all starting out ok.
Outdoor car and bike show this weekend but don't think I'll show anything in it. It's a bit early in the year and weather is quite unpredictable here during the spring. Rick C.
Rick C.
Engine came in today. Really quick shipping. It turned out to be a CG 125 cc 5 speed exactly like the one I used in the Simplex Copper Gator...thought I was getting a 100 cc, but 4 extra horses for the same money. I'll use it. AC/ kick start only. Basic engine only but have all the pieces on hand to get it running. Mikuni carb, CDI, Coil, plug, copper exhaust gasket, kick & shift levers etc. & it's good to go.
Oil dip stick cap got kinda crushed in shipping, even though it was packed very well, no big deal. Waiting now on the Flyer frame. Rick C.
Oil dip stick cap got kinda crushed in shipping, even though it was packed very well, no big deal. Waiting now on the Flyer frame. Rick C.
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It's funny that you mention not being able to afford the things in the back pages of the Popular Mechanics. I was thinking of that as I was typing. I couldn't afford anything more than the free catalogues myself though sometimes I was seduced into parting with the quarter or thirty five cents they wanted for some of them.
I often wonder what the surplus civil war buttons are worth that were offered from one company. The buttons from the Federal army were 98 cents each and buttons from the Confederate army were a dollar fifty but in limited supply so you were advised to hurry if you wanted any.
The real treasure was the six cannons offered on the inside back page. Federal Army, never used and the very princely sum of six hundred dollars each. Muskets, rifles and pistols both North and South were offered but I've forgotten how much. Not a lot even in the early 1960's
We had mostly British bikes being as it was Canada. Indians didn't exist other than rumors and Harley were either ridden by the police, with sidecars, year around or by one of the bike gangs who would own yours in short order if they saw it.
My brother and I bought out a guy who had a barn full of vehicles and parts that he had to sell since they had taken over his farm for a highway project. Today he would be called a hoarder but he just didn't want to see these things sold for scrap so he bought them to save them.
Two 1939 B.S.A.'s that were absolutely mint for seventy five dollars each were just two of the scores. We sold them on to a collector for a nice profit.
Very impressive motor. The fact that it is bigger than you paid for is a nice bonus. What I like about it is it's usable right the box and parts are available. If someone wants a bike that will go down the road at a decent speed without spending a huge pile of money to do it this is the motor to purchase.
Steve
I often wonder what the surplus civil war buttons are worth that were offered from one company. The buttons from the Federal army were 98 cents each and buttons from the Confederate army were a dollar fifty but in limited supply so you were advised to hurry if you wanted any.
The real treasure was the six cannons offered on the inside back page. Federal Army, never used and the very princely sum of six hundred dollars each. Muskets, rifles and pistols both North and South were offered but I've forgotten how much. Not a lot even in the early 1960's
We had mostly British bikes being as it was Canada. Indians didn't exist other than rumors and Harley were either ridden by the police, with sidecars, year around or by one of the bike gangs who would own yours in short order if they saw it.
My brother and I bought out a guy who had a barn full of vehicles and parts that he had to sell since they had taken over his farm for a highway project. Today he would be called a hoarder but he just didn't want to see these things sold for scrap so he bought them to save them.
Two 1939 B.S.A.'s that were absolutely mint for seventy five dollars each were just two of the scores. We sold them on to a collector for a nice profit.
Very impressive motor. The fact that it is bigger than you paid for is a nice bonus. What I like about it is it's usable right the box and parts are available. If someone wants a bike that will go down the road at a decent speed without spending a huge pile of money to do it this is the motor to purchase.
Steve
Ludwig I've been impressed with the CG 125 cc (Hensim, a Taiwanese clone) I mounted in the Simplex, pretty much what you told me to expect. Weight is a modest 55 lbs not bad considering the wet clutch, kick start & 5 speed transmission. Hp 10 to 12... depends on which source you choose believe. It's plenty for a smooth running economical...120 mpg quoted for a two hundred twenty pound motorcycle & lightweight rider. After riding for several weeks I'm quite certain that estimate isn't too far fetched. Gear changes are smooth and positive...little beast even starts well. The two engines I purchased shipped in bare basic form so all electricals, fuel/carb system, exhaust, shift and kick levers must be acquired separately. No manuals with either engine, which will probably be a negative for a novice, but plenty of info on the net to get it properly wired, fueled and lubricated. I purchased a shop manual CD on ebay which gives more detail than most will probably require, but also has info on service intervals etc.
Mounting on the Simplex was a breeze once I freed up enough room in the frame. You need a big frame to mount these 17" H x 14" W x 13" L. I have a drop loop Flyer frame coming & I anticipate having to drop the loop some as well as alter the down tube to make room forward. Though I'm hoping I can fit without cutting. I'd like the motor to sit as low as possible in the frame to lower the center of gravity. Speculation at this point but UPS tracking puts delivery next Thursday & speculation at an end.
While I'd relish seeing a 3 wheeler with CG 5 speed installed, my limited knowledge of trikes renders my opinion on utilizing a CGxxx power source rather worthless in the matter. Rick C.
Mounting on the Simplex was a breeze once I freed up enough room in the frame. You need a big frame to mount these 17" H x 14" W x 13" L. I have a drop loop Flyer frame coming & I anticipate having to drop the loop some as well as alter the down tube to make room forward. Though I'm hoping I can fit without cutting. I'd like the motor to sit as low as possible in the frame to lower the center of gravity. Speculation at this point but UPS tracking puts delivery next Thursday & speculation at an end.
While I'd relish seeing a 3 wheeler with CG 5 speed installed, my limited knowledge of trikes renders my opinion on utilizing a CGxxx power source rather worthless in the matter. Rick C.
We found in our sidecar racing what others have found with them. Engines which were uninspiring on two wheels are transformed on three. The old ZZ90, the "big" engine was regarded as lethargic for what it was. When hauling 2 people round with the revs permanently high, it was a monster on a kart track. Opened out the 2mm permitted and given a high comp piston, it was hysterical fun. Kneeler outfits flung from 50mph into hairpin corners and then nailed out, I still smile at the antics of balancing rpm and steering as a passenger. I will currently pass on making a trike, but you never know.....
Amazing stuff one picks up from racing & riding the car in competition seems a bit beyond my grasp to comprehend. The level of trust one must have in mate & machine appears special.
I've found CG 250's in the 230 cc clone version available with 4 speed & reverse as well....might be nice on a trike as well. 'Cause you never know. Rick C.
I've found CG 250's in the 230 cc clone version available with 4 speed & reverse as well....might be nice on a trike as well. 'Cause you never know. Rick C.
To do a trike you need a differential, like all the 3 wheelers have, Harley, Honda. It eliminates the one wheel scrubbing like the pedal one have. I got some from garden tractors, and supplied Silverbear and Steve with my exses, for there builds. With a differential both wheels pull. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTESearch?storeId=6970&ipp=24&Ntt=go-kart+differential ...................Curt