Well, she put me up to it. Moosh spends a lot of time looking down the driveway, as if expecting your camper to pull in with a fresh supply of Canadian dog cookies.I was conned???? I thought it was Mooshies idea.
Fast (sorta puzzled) eddie
SB
99cc rack mount 3 speed spoke drive MTB
- Thread starter silverbear
- Start date
SB
Next year then. Keep healing that knee and the summer of 2016 will be a banner one with two tri-cars riding down Bearhead Road. Woohoo!
Moosh rode in her trailer for several rides today and racked up maybe 20 miles on the bike. I did change the muffler, adding a 45 degree elbow to re-direct the exhaust both to the side and up some. I'm sure it is much better for her. She's happy.
I also changed the seat over to a bed spring type that Schwinn used in the 1980's I believe. Much better, so I'm happy, too.
I like this drive system quite a lot. It is smooth shifting from one gear to the other (I do let off the throttle while shifting) and I've decided to leave the pulley gearing alone. It goes from a dead stop in any gear, but of course 1st is best. I've found the right pedal gear as there are plenty to choose from (18) so on a long or very steep hill it is easy enough to do a little pedal assist when the bike slows down enough to even pedal. There is very little vibration coming through the frame and with the mtb suspension fork it is a very comfortable ride.
I like it. I think a 49cc Hua Shung would be a good engine for this bike as it is lighter than the Predator engine which would make the front to back weight distribution better. This would make a great commuter bike and with a basket up front there would be a place to stow a backpack or laptop. It pulls me (225 lbs) the trailer and dog (25 lbs) with no difficulty.
Despite the 99CCs advertised in this thread, remember that the engine was swapped for a new 79CC Predator from Harbor Freight. Carburetor and air cleaner are stock and it does have a muffler, so the engine is a bit inhibited from what it could be. Even as it is there is plenty of power and cruising at 30 mph (my best guess) feels safe, is not very loud and is a fun ride. In first gear and with just enough throttle to engage the clutch the bike walks along and would be very good for trail riding. This bike is so far above what I experienced with my China girl bikes... easy starting, four stroked lower tone to the exhaust, comfortable ride, virtually no vibration, no chain to fool with... it has a lot going for it. Add in a three speed gearbox and it is a winner. Don't like a rack mount and want something cooler looking? Consider this engine and drive system in a cruiser with the engine in frame, custom gas tank, geared hub driving the front end of the rear wheel... sweet.
SB
As for the budget...
The bike was free from the dump.
New tires and tubes were around $40.00 with shipping if I remember right.
Metal for making the rack was free from the dump.
Converting the found snow blower clutch from sprocket to pulley was maybe $15.00.
Pulleys for the jackshaft (had the small one, bought the bigger one) was another $15.00 or so.
Some bolts I had, others had to be purchased, also a couple of springs... $10.00.
Converting the sprocket on the hub drive was another $15.00 or so with shipping.
Another $20.00 or thereabouts for shipping a replacement 3 speed hub.
New 79cc Predator engine from Harbor Freight with taxes and shipping $120.00.
I had an old shifter and cable, leftover throttle, replacement seat, so no new expense there.
Curtis Fox had given me the used makings for the jack shaft.
I get a total of $235.00. Add in some more for stuff I have probably forgotten and make it $250.00... that's still pretty good, don'tchathink?
Moosh rode in her trailer for several rides today and racked up maybe 20 miles on the bike. I did change the muffler, adding a 45 degree elbow to re-direct the exhaust both to the side and up some. I'm sure it is much better for her. She's happy.
I also changed the seat over to a bed spring type that Schwinn used in the 1980's I believe. Much better, so I'm happy, too.
I like this drive system quite a lot. It is smooth shifting from one gear to the other (I do let off the throttle while shifting) and I've decided to leave the pulley gearing alone. It goes from a dead stop in any gear, but of course 1st is best. I've found the right pedal gear as there are plenty to choose from (18) so on a long or very steep hill it is easy enough to do a little pedal assist when the bike slows down enough to even pedal. There is very little vibration coming through the frame and with the mtb suspension fork it is a very comfortable ride.
I like it. I think a 49cc Hua Shung would be a good engine for this bike as it is lighter than the Predator engine which would make the front to back weight distribution better. This would make a great commuter bike and with a basket up front there would be a place to stow a backpack or laptop. It pulls me (225 lbs) the trailer and dog (25 lbs) with no difficulty.
Despite the 99CCs advertised in this thread, remember that the engine was swapped for a new 79CC Predator from Harbor Freight. Carburetor and air cleaner are stock and it does have a muffler, so the engine is a bit inhibited from what it could be. Even as it is there is plenty of power and cruising at 30 mph (my best guess) feels safe, is not very loud and is a fun ride. In first gear and with just enough throttle to engage the clutch the bike walks along and would be very good for trail riding. This bike is so far above what I experienced with my China girl bikes... easy starting, four stroked lower tone to the exhaust, comfortable ride, virtually no vibration, no chain to fool with... it has a lot going for it. Add in a three speed gearbox and it is a winner. Don't like a rack mount and want something cooler looking? Consider this engine and drive system in a cruiser with the engine in frame, custom gas tank, geared hub driving the front end of the rear wheel... sweet.
SB
As for the budget...
The bike was free from the dump.
New tires and tubes were around $40.00 with shipping if I remember right.
Metal for making the rack was free from the dump.
Converting the found snow blower clutch from sprocket to pulley was maybe $15.00.
Pulleys for the jackshaft (had the small one, bought the bigger one) was another $15.00 or so.
Some bolts I had, others had to be purchased, also a couple of springs... $10.00.
Converting the sprocket on the hub drive was another $15.00 or so with shipping.
Another $20.00 or thereabouts for shipping a replacement 3 speed hub.
New 79cc Predator engine from Harbor Freight with taxes and shipping $120.00.
I had an old shifter and cable, leftover throttle, replacement seat, so no new expense there.
Curtis Fox had given me the used makings for the jack shaft.
I get a total of $235.00. Add in some more for stuff I have probably forgotten and make it $250.00... that's still pretty good, don'tchathink?
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Glad you got it sorted SB! You will get used to the feel of the rack mount pretty shortly. It would be the same as my original Point Beach build. After a bit of saddle time the initial tail heaviness becomes accepted and is no longer so noticeable. Just don't goose the throttle while standing over the bike!
The IGH is a nice way to get a transmission and the spoke drive is as smooth as an FD with out the associated slippage. Tire wear will remain to be seen. The spokes seem to be pretty gentle on the tread but what they will do with the dirt/grit the tire picks up is unknown. I have ridden many dirt/gravel roads with my old Lifan FD and the tire seemed none the worse for wear. Hopefully the SD will be the same.
Congrats on completing a fairly demanding build and having the perseverance to see it through!
The IGH is a nice way to get a transmission and the spoke drive is as smooth as an FD with out the associated slippage. Tire wear will remain to be seen. The spokes seem to be pretty gentle on the tread but what they will do with the dirt/grit the tire picks up is unknown. I have ridden many dirt/gravel roads with my old Lifan FD and the tire seemed none the worse for wear. Hopefully the SD will be the same.
Congrats on completing a fairly demanding build and having the perseverance to see it through!
Thank you for all of your help, Ben. I've not always been the most attentive student, but you've been an inspiring teacher and even the dullards at the back of the class where I sit appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share. You led the way on this use of the old Sturmey Archers. I have a sense that with proper lubrication and gentle shifting they will pass the test of time. I also think they could handle more horsepower with feathered throttling.
Regarding lubrication, I was unable to purchase 00 oil locally, but did find it on the internet. Not wanting to wait, I'm using outboard lower unit gear oil which is 85-90 weight. Sometime later I'll pick up some 00. I've been checking the hub after each ride and it is just warm to the touch and not at all hot. So far, so good.
SB
Regarding lubrication, I was unable to purchase 00 oil locally, but did find it on the internet. Not wanting to wait, I'm using outboard lower unit gear oil which is 85-90 weight. Sometime later I'll pick up some 00. I've been checking the hub after each ride and it is just warm to the touch and not at all hot. So far, so good.
SB
I'll add my congratulations to a build well completed too Silverbear. I might not have posted much on this thread, but I have been following it closely and have learned a lot along the way.
Finding out that running a coaster SA hub backwards is a 'no-no' might've been a disappointment for you Silverbear, but at least now the rest of us know that thanks to your experiment. Once the weather improves here in Kiwiland I'm going to do some experimenting with some of the old SA hubs I have around here myself. I've actually been wondering about running 350 watt electric motor I've got through one according to the 'Cannonball Method'.
Hi Anne,
I keep forgetting that it is becoming winter in kiwiland while it is trying to become summer here in my part of the garden. Ogitiigaan (oh git tee gone) is an Ojibwa word describing our earth as "the Great Spirit's garden". So from my part of the garden to yours, thanks for the kind words. Yes, my personal wrong turns and confusions have contributed to what we are learning about these old hubs. That's good. Used with some care in the right configuration they appear to be robust and I think have much promise. I also ran the thought through my head about it's use with an electric motor, but don't know enough to pursue the thought. So, I'll leave that to you and others to figure out for me. The trash picker in me is delighted to find treasures when they come and I believe these old hubs are indeed "treasures". Stay warm, stay as well as you can.
SB
I keep forgetting that it is becoming winter in kiwiland while it is trying to become summer here in my part of the garden. Ogitiigaan (oh git tee gone) is an Ojibwa word describing our earth as "the Great Spirit's garden". So from my part of the garden to yours, thanks for the kind words. Yes, my personal wrong turns and confusions have contributed to what we are learning about these old hubs. That's good. Used with some care in the right configuration they appear to be robust and I think have much promise. I also ran the thought through my head about it's use with an electric motor, but don't know enough to pursue the thought. So, I'll leave that to you and others to figure out for me. The trash picker in me is delighted to find treasures when they come and I believe these old hubs are indeed "treasures". Stay warm, stay as well as you can.
SB
I actually don't think it's possible depending on the Sturmey 3 spd coaster you have. TCWIII versus newer SC3 have different pawls and internal power drive paths and in general, both models of Sturmey 3 speed coasters are a bit more 'tender' in their internal construction, compared to the AW models.
A few changes for show and tell. I added a 45 degree elbow to the exhaust so that it is no longer aimed at the dog in her trailer, but is now aimed to the side and up some.
It being a rainy day I made a different tail light using a fan cover from an aging Alienware computer, a tin can, a disc of red plexiglass, a cut-off led flashlight and a hand stitched cover in harness leather. I'm the only kid on the block with one of these. I'm calling this bike "Alien", since it is definitely ass backwards different.
I also gave it a better seat for cruising which came from a 1980's Schwinn.
The light duty spokes on the hub drive started self destructing... coming loose and disappearing, so I drilled out the spoke holes to accommodate what I'm guessing are 10 gauge spokes from a light motorcycle. This time I'm using real deal lock-tight. On the others I used the poor man version; fingernail polish which is okay for some things, but not this. So far everything is holding. Moosh and I have added another thirty miles or so and everything is good. Still shifting smoothly and I'm getting more comfortable with the bike. It is a fun ride. Oh, one other small change is that I rotated the pull start shroud 1/4 turn counter clockwise so that when I start the motor it is more comfortable having my left hand on the throttle, right hand pulling the starter cord and being in a position to keep good control of the bike.
SB
It being a rainy day I made a different tail light using a fan cover from an aging Alienware computer, a tin can, a disc of red plexiglass, a cut-off led flashlight and a hand stitched cover in harness leather. I'm the only kid on the block with one of these. I'm calling this bike "Alien", since it is definitely ass backwards different.
I also gave it a better seat for cruising which came from a 1980's Schwinn.
The light duty spokes on the hub drive started self destructing... coming loose and disappearing, so I drilled out the spoke holes to accommodate what I'm guessing are 10 gauge spokes from a light motorcycle. This time I'm using real deal lock-tight. On the others I used the poor man version; fingernail polish which is okay for some things, but not this. So far everything is holding. Moosh and I have added another thirty miles or so and everything is good. Still shifting smoothly and I'm getting more comfortable with the bike. It is a fun ride. Oh, one other small change is that I rotated the pull start shroud 1/4 turn counter clockwise so that when I start the motor it is more comfortable having my left hand on the throttle, right hand pulling the starter cord and being in a position to keep good control of the bike.
SB
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Thank you, Sir. And thank you for the pioneer work you did with internally geared hubs back in "the old days" of 96. I know that cannonball 2 learned from your experiences just as I have learned from his. It will be interesting to see what comes next.
SB
Update SB?
Havent had time for much in the way of MBs lately. Mine are still at the old house some 20 mi distant. Will start moving them soon as the house sale will close in the next few weeks. This has truly been the move from ****! Glad its nearly over!
Havent had time for much in the way of MBs lately. Mine are still at the old house some 20 mi distant. Will start moving them soon as the house sale will close in the next few weeks. This has truly been the move from ****! Glad its nearly over!
CB2,
While my summer is nothing to compare with yours, it has been different for sure. I no more than got finished with cutting and splitting my firewood for the winter of 2017 (nice to be ahead) than I got notice the low income apartment in nearby Ely, MN. was finally available after waiting on a list for a couple years. So I won't be out here in the forest during the winters anymore and have no need for much firewood. I'll still be out here at the lake in the summer, though, so will have the best of both worlds. I decided to turn the firewood into rent money by selling it delivered by the pickup truck load. Lots of time and work have gone into the enterprise so far and only about half of the wood I've put up has been sold. The exercise has been good for my "extra size" and it's nice putting away some rent money. This hasn't left me with a lot of time for bike riding or building, but some.
The only thing I have to report on being somewhat off is that I'm still losing hub drive spokes. I replaced three about a week ago and noticed last evening that two more were gone. I had decided to pick up some of the red locktite and figured that would do it, but then I had another idea I thought I'd try for awhile to see how it works. What I really don't like about replacing the spokes is that I have to remove the hub from the bike and then remove the pulley from the hub... and deal with that hard to get at lock ring which holds the pulley in place. What came to mind was using zip ties instead. I don't know how they'll work out since I haven't taken a ride yet. They may last great or not last at all. Maybe they'll grip the tire even better or not as well. Could be they'll cause more tire wear. We'll see by using them and if I lose another spoke I'll replace it with a zip tie so long as the zip ties are holding. What's nice about the zip ties is that they can be replaced without removing the hub or the pulley from the hub. I hope they work out. If not, then red locktite should do it. (I've been using blue).
Everything else has been good. As soon as I finish loading up birch into the pickup the dog and I are going for a bike ride!
SB
While my summer is nothing to compare with yours, it has been different for sure. I no more than got finished with cutting and splitting my firewood for the winter of 2017 (nice to be ahead) than I got notice the low income apartment in nearby Ely, MN. was finally available after waiting on a list for a couple years. So I won't be out here in the forest during the winters anymore and have no need for much firewood. I'll still be out here at the lake in the summer, though, so will have the best of both worlds. I decided to turn the firewood into rent money by selling it delivered by the pickup truck load. Lots of time and work have gone into the enterprise so far and only about half of the wood I've put up has been sold. The exercise has been good for my "extra size" and it's nice putting away some rent money. This hasn't left me with a lot of time for bike riding or building, but some.
The only thing I have to report on being somewhat off is that I'm still losing hub drive spokes. I replaced three about a week ago and noticed last evening that two more were gone. I had decided to pick up some of the red locktite and figured that would do it, but then I had another idea I thought I'd try for awhile to see how it works. What I really don't like about replacing the spokes is that I have to remove the hub from the bike and then remove the pulley from the hub... and deal with that hard to get at lock ring which holds the pulley in place. What came to mind was using zip ties instead. I don't know how they'll work out since I haven't taken a ride yet. They may last great or not last at all. Maybe they'll grip the tire even better or not as well. Could be they'll cause more tire wear. We'll see by using them and if I lose another spoke I'll replace it with a zip tie so long as the zip ties are holding. What's nice about the zip ties is that they can be replaced without removing the hub or the pulley from the hub. I hope they work out. If not, then red locktite should do it. (I've been using blue).
Everything else has been good. As soon as I finish loading up birch into the pickup the dog and I are going for a bike ride!
SB
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Well, so much for that bright idea. Just got back from a four mile or so ride and both zip ties are long gone. Looks like I will invest in some red locktite. Surely that will do it.
SB
SB
JB weld might be even better. Where does the spoke go? I would assume it could only leave if the bent end failed?
It could be the bent end wasn't bent enough into a hook. Being thick they are hard to bend. I hadn't considered JBWeld, but would rather use it since I also have other uses for it. Have you had any loss of spokes?
With the Predator engine's torque I can see that there's a lot of stress on those hub spokes. That is the moment of contact, propelling the bike down the road. I can see how important it is that those spokes be strong and securely attached. I'll get it figured out eventually.
SB
With the Predator engine's torque I can see that there's a lot of stress on those hub spokes. That is the moment of contact, propelling the bike down the road. I can see how important it is that those spokes be strong and securely attached. I'll get it figured out eventually.
SB